Assault weapons

Assault weapons

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 23rd, 2012, 6:10 pm #1

In the wake of another nut-case- should we talk about assault weapons and just why the average joe needs them?

. . . . .
Reply
Like
Share

Brandon
Brandon

July 24th, 2012, 3:50 am #2

No, we should not. But if we must, Robert VerBruggen writing for National Review says it best:

"James Holmes passed a background check his worst prior infraction was a traffic ticket and although some of his acquaintances found him creepy, there is no evidence that he was diagnosed with any mental illness. Further, while its true that one of Holmess guns was a so-called assault weapon similar to an AR-15, this gun does not differ from standard hunting rifles in most of the important ways. Holmess rifle fires at a semiautomatic rate one bullet for each pull of the trigger, unlike a machine gun, which fires continuously when the trigger is held down and uses .223-caliber ammo. This ammo is frequently found in varmint rifles; it is on the small side even for shooting deer.

Admittedly, one aspect of Holmess arsenal does depart from standard equipment: his high-capacity magazines, in particular a 100-round drum-style magazine for the rifle. (The 1994 assault-weapons ban, which has since expired, capped magazine size at ten rounds.) Mayor Bloomberg is wrong that these magazines have no legitimate purpose I personally own an extended magazine for my 9mm pistol; it cuts down on loading time at the range if you fill a big magazine before leaving the house. But one can make the case, and many have, that high-capacity magazines make these kinds of shootings easier to pull off by decreasing the number of times that the shooter has to reload or change guns. Some shooters, including Jared Lee Loughner, have been tackled while reloading.

However, changing magazines can take less than a second here is an extreme example of a fast change and someone who takes as much time preparing as Holmes did will practice doing this. Further, Holmess choice of a drum magazine might have made him less effective there are reports that the magazine jammed, as large magazines are known to do. He might have killed and injured even more people if he had brought many smaller magazines and changed them as necessary. And at any rate, Holmess proficiency with explosives is an indicator that he could have been incredibly lethal even with no access to guns at all."
Reply
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 24th, 2012, 1:22 pm #3

The reasons cited for our right to have guns is for hunting for food and personal protection. Neither of these uses requires high-capacity automatic or semi-automatic weapons. These weapons were developed for one purpose- to kill as many people as possible in as short of time as possible. It is absolutely absurd that we live in a country where if you ordered marijuana over the internet you'd have the cops knocking at your door but this guy ordered 6000 rounds of ammunition and all sorts of explosives no questions asked. And look at how often these mass shootings happen here compared to the rest of the world. Ask Marseil what the rest of the world thinks about the US- many are afraid to visit the US for fear of get shot while here. How sad is that.
. . . . .
Reply
Like
Share

Joined: May 9th, 2005, 12:05 pm

July 24th, 2012, 4:19 pm #4

Many American gun enthusiasts are afraid to go places overseas because they can't have a gun along for protection. I was in London last year and felt no particular risk at being there unarmed. But you know, some of the police in London actually are armed and even carry submachine guns.
Reply
Like
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 24th, 2012, 5:58 pm #5

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

England has 0.12 gun deaths per 100,000 people.

The US has 2.97 or 25 times as much!

In fact the US has way more gun deaths than any other advanced country.

That's the facts.
. . . . .
Reply
Like
Share

Bob
Bob

July 24th, 2012, 8:02 pm #6

I did not grow up with guns around, never owned a gun and rarely fired one (th last time being during the mid-1970's). So I don't have a vested interest in this debate. But, I do have some observations.

As with so much of the violent and/or street crime in U.S., it seems to me that most gun violence is perpetrated by a small percentage of Americans. It seems to revolve around certain locales and certain activities. I can't tell you how many times people have told me, "If you aren't involved in the drug trade and if you don't hang out in places that most everyone know are bad news, you have little to worry about in terms of violent crimes." And, I think that is true. There is an element in American society, and turf they dominate, that produces most of the violent crime, including gun deaths.

I've not been to Europe, so maybe I am incorrect in thinking that European countries are different culturally/socially from the United States in a way that affects the frequency of violent crimes (beyond just gun laws). Certainly, you can ban things in U.S. and people who disregard laws will get those things anyway. If their interest is to defend their turf, their drug revenues, and ward off competitors or people who don't pay, they will get guns to enforce these things. As the old saying goes, "The only people who will be disarmed by gun laws are law-abiding people. The criminals will still get guns." I am wondering if Europe is different, in that they have tough gun laws and bad guys still tend not to get guns . . the black market for guns is not such a factor there.

If my observations are correct, that still doesn't tell us how to change the violence-prone people in U.S. so that they won't resort to lethal force to obtain their objectives. Regarding the Colorado case, radio commentators have made the point that someone as smart as James Holmes would figure out a way to obtain guns, despite any laws. Or, that he could develop explosive devices to kill and maim people with.
Reply
Share

Marseil
Marseil

July 24th, 2012, 8:08 pm #7

The reasons cited for our right to have guns is for hunting for food and personal protection. Neither of these uses requires high-capacity automatic or semi-automatic weapons. These weapons were developed for one purpose- to kill as many people as possible in as short of time as possible. It is absolutely absurd that we live in a country where if you ordered marijuana over the internet you'd have the cops knocking at your door but this guy ordered 6000 rounds of ammunition and all sorts of explosives no questions asked. And look at how often these mass shootings happen here compared to the rest of the world. Ask Marseil what the rest of the world thinks about the US- many are afraid to visit the US for fear of get shot while here. How sad is that.
. . . . .
"Ask Marseil what the rest of the world thinks about the US- many are afraid to visit the US for fear of get shot while here."
Actually no. I believe no European is afraid of being shot in the US. We know Americans kill each other

More seriously, weapons are under tight control in all the developed world (Europe, most of Asia, most of Latin AMerica....), so no one clearly understands why Americans are in need of weapons in a pacified country. Maybe the answer is in NRA's hands....

Marseil
Reply
Share

Marseil
Marseil

July 24th, 2012, 8:09 pm #8

Many American gun enthusiasts are afraid to go places overseas because they can't have a gun along for protection. I was in London last year and felt no particular risk at being there unarmed. But you know, some of the police in London actually are armed and even carry submachine guns.
"Many American gun enthusiasts are afraid to go places overseas because they can't have a gun along for protection."
I never thought of it this way. Actually this is very fortunate: if they are afraid to go overseas for this reason, they are definitely not the kind of visitors we welcome.

Marseil.
Reply
Share

Marseil
Marseil

July 24th, 2012, 8:16 pm #9

I did not grow up with guns around, never owned a gun and rarely fired one (th last time being during the mid-1970's). So I don't have a vested interest in this debate. But, I do have some observations.

As with so much of the violent and/or street crime in U.S., it seems to me that most gun violence is perpetrated by a small percentage of Americans. It seems to revolve around certain locales and certain activities. I can't tell you how many times people have told me, "If you aren't involved in the drug trade and if you don't hang out in places that most everyone know are bad news, you have little to worry about in terms of violent crimes." And, I think that is true. There is an element in American society, and turf they dominate, that produces most of the violent crime, including gun deaths.

I've not been to Europe, so maybe I am incorrect in thinking that European countries are different culturally/socially from the United States in a way that affects the frequency of violent crimes (beyond just gun laws). Certainly, you can ban things in U.S. and people who disregard laws will get those things anyway. If their interest is to defend their turf, their drug revenues, and ward off competitors or people who don't pay, they will get guns to enforce these things. As the old saying goes, "The only people who will be disarmed by gun laws are law-abiding people. The criminals will still get guns." I am wondering if Europe is different, in that they have tough gun laws and bad guys still tend not to get guns . . the black market for guns is not such a factor there.

If my observations are correct, that still doesn't tell us how to change the violence-prone people in U.S. so that they won't resort to lethal force to obtain their objectives. Regarding the Colorado case, radio commentators have made the point that someone as smart as James Holmes would figure out a way to obtain guns, despite any laws. Or, that he could develop explosive devices to kill and maim people with.
Bob writes "I've not been to Europe, so maybe I am incorrect in thinking that European countries are different culturally/socially from the United States in a way that affects the frequency of violent crimes (beyond just gun laws). (...) I am wondering if Europe is different, in that they have tough gun laws and bad guys still tend not to get guns . . the black market for guns is not such a factor there. "

In Marseille, the city where I live, there are too many people with guns. There are gangs who mainly live on drug traffic who gun each other every so often. Obviously they get guns from the black market. Don't forget ex-Yugoslavia was at war, not far from here (1000 km - 600 mi) until the early 2000's. Also, there are commercial relations with Eastern Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, all sources of weapons. The difference, is that these weapons are illegal here, and just the fact of owning them is a sufficient reason to put people in jail.

Marseil.
Reply
Share

Marseil
Marseil

July 24th, 2012, 8:17 pm #10

In the wake of another nut-case- should we talk about assault weapons and just why the average joe needs them?

. . . . .
Just look at this:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 0981_n.jpg

Marseil


Reply
Share