Jordan's Response to my Questions

Jordan's Response to my Questions

Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 2nd, 2009, 4:05 pm #1

First of all, my questions were not for Jordan. I don't believe he is a representative of SA, and since they are in Florida and he is in Oregon, I doubt he has much firsthand knowledge of what goes on, there. Therefore, I don't understand his response in the locked thread, below. Regardless...

1. People do deserve to know the educations, training and experience of people who are offering to provide medical procedures. Alcor doesn't have a problem with publishing bios of their personnel, and CI doesn't have a problem with publishing bios of their personnel and directors. It's my understanding at least one of the SA staff members doesn't even want his name associated with cryonics, and I think that's of concern.

2. Jordan didn't answer this question, but I think it's important to know if a company is paying excessive salaries to people who are not really interested in the work, especially when there is so much work to be done, and so much work to go around, in cryonics. If money is being wasted on unqualified, unproductive people, it could be better spent on legitimate scientific research issues, such as that related to the toxicity of vitrification solutions.

3. Is Jordan referring to "research" like building level detectors that cost tens of thousands of dollars and involve drilling holes in sterile reserviors, when non-invasive FDA-approved level detectors are available for $385? There's been millions of dollars spent on a lot of misguided "research" projects, such as this, at SA. The problem is, the people doing this so-called "research" aren't aware of existing medical equipment, and when they are made aware, they often fight tooth-and-nail to keep their costly projects alive. And, what about that red liquid in the beaker on SA's home page? I believe that was a blatant attempt to deceive the public into believing there is scientific research being conducted at the SA facility, when there has never been any evidence of that.

4. See 3.

5. a. If the employees at SA are the same as when I worked there, they lack the education and experience needed to be competent in performing the tasks of paramedics (or nurses) and perfusionists, which are needed for the services they are said to be offering.
b. I know what their salaries were, when I started, because the manager told me most of them, and I know most of them received raises, while I was there. Some of the salaries that were told to me were later verified, in that one employee told me his salary, and another's check was accidentally included with mine, once.
c. The required skillset for stabilization and washout IS the one I listed. I left out some simple tasks, (like CPR, packing ice around the patient, and other tasks that can be easily taught).

6. Maybe they don't. Maybe Jordan can call them up and ask them.

7. Is Jordan telling us SA can bring a "legally dead" body into their facility, and laymen can perform procedures on it? I'm sure the City of Boynton Beach would be very interested in knowing they plan on doing that.

8. I worked full-time at SA for five months, and consulted with them for an additional five months. Some people were doing little-to-nothing on an almost-daily basis, and getting paid quite handsomely, for it. From my firsthand experience, with SA, there is not enough work to fill up 240 man-hours a week, there, and I'm not the only person who thinks this. If this has changed, since I was there, why don't they let the cryonics community know what they are doing?

9. SA has promised regular news bulletins, many times, but has yet to deliver. I am not the only person who is wondering what SA has accomplished with their seven years and millions of dollars, there are many.

Jordan is correct in that Kent and Faloon can spend their money as they please, but people have a right to know when a company offering medical procedures is providing less than optimal care, at a greatly-inflated price. Also, see 2 and 3.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2005, 9:18 pm

July 2nd, 2009, 5:04 pm #2

The price they charge falls far short of covering their costs. So it's absolutely false that they have greatly inflated prices.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2005, 9:18 pm

July 2nd, 2009, 5:23 pm #3

First of all, my questions were not for Jordan. I don't believe he is a representative of SA, and since they are in Florida and he is in Oregon, I doubt he has much firsthand knowledge of what goes on, there. Therefore, I don't understand his response in the locked thread, below. Regardless...

1. People do deserve to know the educations, training and experience of people who are offering to provide medical procedures. Alcor doesn't have a problem with publishing bios of their personnel, and CI doesn't have a problem with publishing bios of their personnel and directors. It's my understanding at least one of the SA staff members doesn't even want his name associated with cryonics, and I think that's of concern.

2. Jordan didn't answer this question, but I think it's important to know if a company is paying excessive salaries to people who are not really interested in the work, especially when there is so much work to be done, and so much work to go around, in cryonics. If money is being wasted on unqualified, unproductive people, it could be better spent on legitimate scientific research issues, such as that related to the toxicity of vitrification solutions.

3. Is Jordan referring to "research" like building level detectors that cost tens of thousands of dollars and involve drilling holes in sterile reserviors, when non-invasive FDA-approved level detectors are available for $385? There's been millions of dollars spent on a lot of misguided "research" projects, such as this, at SA. The problem is, the people doing this so-called "research" aren't aware of existing medical equipment, and when they are made aware, they often fight tooth-and-nail to keep their costly projects alive. And, what about that red liquid in the beaker on SA's home page? I believe that was a blatant attempt to deceive the public into believing there is scientific research being conducted at the SA facility, when there has never been any evidence of that.

4. See 3.

5. a. If the employees at SA are the same as when I worked there, they lack the education and experience needed to be competent in performing the tasks of paramedics (or nurses) and perfusionists, which are needed for the services they are said to be offering.
b. I know what their salaries were, when I started, because the manager told me most of them, and I know most of them received raises, while I was there. Some of the salaries that were told to me were later verified, in that one employee told me his salary, and another's check was accidentally included with mine, once.
c. The required skillset for stabilization and washout IS the one I listed. I left out some simple tasks, (like CPR, packing ice around the patient, and other tasks that can be easily taught).

6. Maybe they don't. Maybe Jordan can call them up and ask them.

7. Is Jordan telling us SA can bring a "legally dead" body into their facility, and laymen can perform procedures on it? I'm sure the City of Boynton Beach would be very interested in knowing they plan on doing that.

8. I worked full-time at SA for five months, and consulted with them for an additional five months. Some people were doing little-to-nothing on an almost-daily basis, and getting paid quite handsomely, for it. From my firsthand experience, with SA, there is not enough work to fill up 240 man-hours a week, there, and I'm not the only person who thinks this. If this has changed, since I was there, why don't they let the cryonics community know what they are doing?

9. SA has promised regular news bulletins, many times, but has yet to deliver. I am not the only person who is wondering what SA has accomplished with their seven years and millions of dollars, there are many.

Jordan is correct in that Kent and Faloon can spend their money as they please, but people have a right to know when a company offering medical procedures is providing less than optimal care, at a greatly-inflated price. Also, see 2 and 3.
I read Charles Platt's past statement, and while he agreed to make some corrections, at no point did he admit libel. You are falsely accusing him. You have done so repeatedly, and your behavior should not be tolerated.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 2nd, 2009, 5:47 pm #4

Platt can have his attorney call my attorney, if he likes.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 2nd, 2009, 5:49 pm #5

The price they charge falls far short of covering their costs. So it's absolutely false that they have greatly inflated prices.
If I paid ten million dollars a year to have medical professionals build sports cars, and then sold Jordan a lemon for $100K, it would still be a "greatly-inflated price," no matter how much my company's costs were.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2005, 9:18 pm

July 2nd, 2009, 7:21 pm #6

Platt can have his attorney call my attorney, if he likes.
You've made false statements on this forum. I don't care about whose attorney calls whom. I want to you stop making false statements on this forum.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 2nd, 2009, 8:12 pm #7

I have not made false statements on this forum.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but when a person has to hire an attorney and make "corrective statements," it is a tacit admission of libel and/or slander. In addition to what you have seen on this forum, there is other proof, which you are unaware of. I'm sure Platt would like you to drop this, as would I, but I can prove the statements I have made. If he agrees with you, that I have made false statements about him, let him have his attorney call mine. Platt's a big boy, I doubt he really appreciates you defending his honor, (keeping his past transgressions in the limelight).

I would be quite happy not to bring up his past distortions of the truth, if he would quit offering to provided "private and confidential" information, regarding the activities of the cryonics organizations, to the readers of this forum. If what SA and Alcor are doing is productive, let them publish it and prove my criticisms wrong.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2005, 9:18 pm

July 2nd, 2009, 8:50 pm #8

The false statement which you made is, "I was referring to someone who has admitted to committing libel, on this forum."

This is false because he has not admitted to committing libel. You can sugarcoat your lie with words like "tacit" all you want, but your statement is still false. Your accusation of libel certainly does not make him guilty of libel. Good grief.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 3rd, 2009, 12:55 am #9

First of all, my questions were not for Jordan. I don't believe he is a representative of SA, and since they are in Florida and he is in Oregon, I doubt he has much firsthand knowledge of what goes on, there. Therefore, I don't understand his response in the locked thread, below. Regardless...

1. People do deserve to know the educations, training and experience of people who are offering to provide medical procedures. Alcor doesn't have a problem with publishing bios of their personnel, and CI doesn't have a problem with publishing bios of their personnel and directors. It's my understanding at least one of the SA staff members doesn't even want his name associated with cryonics, and I think that's of concern.

2. Jordan didn't answer this question, but I think it's important to know if a company is paying excessive salaries to people who are not really interested in the work, especially when there is so much work to be done, and so much work to go around, in cryonics. If money is being wasted on unqualified, unproductive people, it could be better spent on legitimate scientific research issues, such as that related to the toxicity of vitrification solutions.

3. Is Jordan referring to "research" like building level detectors that cost tens of thousands of dollars and involve drilling holes in sterile reserviors, when non-invasive FDA-approved level detectors are available for $385? There's been millions of dollars spent on a lot of misguided "research" projects, such as this, at SA. The problem is, the people doing this so-called "research" aren't aware of existing medical equipment, and when they are made aware, they often fight tooth-and-nail to keep their costly projects alive. And, what about that red liquid in the beaker on SA's home page? I believe that was a blatant attempt to deceive the public into believing there is scientific research being conducted at the SA facility, when there has never been any evidence of that.

4. See 3.

5. a. If the employees at SA are the same as when I worked there, they lack the education and experience needed to be competent in performing the tasks of paramedics (or nurses) and perfusionists, which are needed for the services they are said to be offering.
b. I know what their salaries were, when I started, because the manager told me most of them, and I know most of them received raises, while I was there. Some of the salaries that were told to me were later verified, in that one employee told me his salary, and another's check was accidentally included with mine, once.
c. The required skillset for stabilization and washout IS the one I listed. I left out some simple tasks, (like CPR, packing ice around the patient, and other tasks that can be easily taught).

6. Maybe they don't. Maybe Jordan can call them up and ask them.

7. Is Jordan telling us SA can bring a "legally dead" body into their facility, and laymen can perform procedures on it? I'm sure the City of Boynton Beach would be very interested in knowing they plan on doing that.

8. I worked full-time at SA for five months, and consulted with them for an additional five months. Some people were doing little-to-nothing on an almost-daily basis, and getting paid quite handsomely, for it. From my firsthand experience, with SA, there is not enough work to fill up 240 man-hours a week, there, and I'm not the only person who thinks this. If this has changed, since I was there, why don't they let the cryonics community know what they are doing?

9. SA has promised regular news bulletins, many times, but has yet to deliver. I am not the only person who is wondering what SA has accomplished with their seven years and millions of dollars, there are many.

Jordan is correct in that Kent and Faloon can spend their money as they please, but people have a right to know when a company offering medical procedures is providing less than optimal care, at a greatly-inflated price. Also, see 2 and 3.
Once upon a time, Chuck sent Sammy what was supposed to be a private email, in which a lot of false statements were made about a former co-worker, Maggie. (That's libel, in case Jordan doesn't recognize it.) Poor Sammy, believing his friend to be telling the truth, published those statements on Cold Filter. Maggie sent that rascal, Chuck, a fairly nasty letter, stating she had had it with his crap, and threatening to sue him, if he did not retract and apologize. Then, Maggie went on a family holiday vacation, and forgot all about it, for the time-being.

When she returned home from her holiday, to her surprise, Maggie had a message from Chuck's attorney, Mr. R., whom she called as soon as she could stop laughing. As she told Mr. R., she hadn't really expected poor Chuck to have to pay an attorney, all she wanted was for him to correct the false statements he had made, because they could be damaging to her career. They set about negotiating the corrective statement that would later be published on two Internet sites. Now, Maggie, could have been really nasty, and run up a pretty hefty legal bill, for Chuck, by taking her time and nit-picking about the wording of the agreement. As Mr. R. told her, when she told him how upset she was to have those lies told about her work, "If it makes you feel any better, I'm a REALLY expensive attorney." Instead, Maggie let a few little things slide, and was satisfied that the lies that had been told about her work were corrected, (at least those she knew about). It didn't occur to Maggie to ask Chuck to put, "I've libeled Maggie," in the statement, because Maggie thought anyone with half a brain would realize that no one pays a very expensive attorney a lot of money, and humiliates himself in front of his peers, if he didn't do what he was being accused of, (that being LIBEL, Jordan).

Though there were some future minor setbacks, such as Chuck offering to answer the questions of others, regarding some of Maggie's accusations against their former employer, privately, which led Maggie to worry that information might be less than accurate. When that happened, another of Chuck's well-intentioned friends, not being aware of the evidence Maggie kept in her possession, stepped up to defend his friend. "Your accusation of libel certainly does not make him guilty of libel," James shrieked, not being aware of certain evidence Maggie kept in her possession that would prove her accusations of libel.

Amazingly, they all eventually learned to play nice, together. The former employer answered all of Maggie's questions and initiated a policy of total transparency. Medical professionals took over the world of cryonics. Chuck wrote a Pulitzer Prize winning novel, James discovered a new toothcare product that made dentists obsolete, Maggie disappeared into the rainforests of the Caribbean, and they all lived happily-ever-after.

(Okay, that last paragraph was a fairytale, but the rest of the story is true, whether Jordan wants to believe it, or not. Only the names have been changed.)

Nitey-nite, Jordan.

(For anyone who thinks I'm having fun, I'm not. I'm just trying to find a "playful" way to convince Jordan he doesn't know what he's talking about. I doubt if *Chuck,* or the moderator, are enjoying this thread anymore than I am. If someone, (other than Jordan), has been offended, I apologize, but I'll be damned if I'll have Jordan come here and call me a liar. If I was lying, that would make ME guilty of libel, and I can assure you that is not the case.)
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2005, 9:18 pm

July 3rd, 2009, 2:09 am #10

I don't see what's so funny about taking the threat of a lawsuit seriously. When faced with such a threat, it is very common for people to make compromises such as retracting statements in order to avoid the cost and hassle of a lawsuit. It is very common for the person doing the retraction to be completely innocent.

Fine, you feel like you were wronged. We all get that. But you are making statements which are simply not true. Stick to the facts. Every time you don't stick to the facts, I will be here calling you on it. Your distortions are damaging to cryonics.
Quote
Like
Share