Is Cryonics a science, religion or a cult?

Is Cryonics a science, religion or a cult?

Joined: October 6th, 2004, 6:46 pm

November 25th, 2008, 5:55 pm #1

Sorry, not trying to argue, I'm still trying to understand the position.

It seems to have aspects of all three.

Someone was just bending my ear on the history, questionable practices and harassment of non-believers by Cryonics followers; like Scientology.
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Joined: June 16th, 2008, 4:54 am

November 25th, 2008, 7:55 pm #2

I see it as a highly experimental science or heroic medicine. Can you elaborate on why you think it may be a cult or religion? What sort of harassment?
To be honest we seem to get most of the harassment some attempt to make this practice illegal which is very hard for me to understand.
There have been some unfortunate things that have happened in the history of cryonics like in California and if you can ever talk to Mike Darwin you can learn some of the issues. FD here tries to bring some current issues to light. We know things are not perfect but it's the best chance we currently have to gain some additional life. None of us is interested in forcing others to sign up for cryonics but we can become annoyed when people try to force us not to do it.

One site I would recommend reading is Ben Best's which may help answer some of your questions. Specifically http://benbest.com/cryonics/cryiss.html and others off http://benbest.com/cryonics/cryonics.html I feel those pages may help with a number of your questions.
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Joined: October 6th, 2004, 6:46 pm

November 25th, 2008, 10:07 pm #3

believers follow it (and invest large sums of money in it) purely on faith and hope. Because of the secrecy and seemly underground nature of the companies, their practices and cryonics followers.

Many religions were once underground because of persecution of their members.

Cryonics does seem to have many traits similar to Scientology, which is why I mentioned it:

Absolute belief...
Large sums of cash to be a "member"...
Lack of meaningful discussion with those outside of the group...
Futuristic scientific conclusions (SciFi)...
Persecution of those who question it...

Much like Christianity, or other religions.

Lawmakers, whistle blowers and other critics have been harassed from what I hear and read; not for trying to make it illegal but from even questioning or seeking some regulation.

Yes, there seems to be a history of less than honorable acts in the industry.

I'm not here to argue, or put cryonics followers down, I try and learn and understand: however, my perspective comes from being on the outside. There is a lot of discussion here on intimate technological details, but these simple questions I raise are much broader issues expressed by other ordinary people.

I'll take a look at the sites you mentioned. I don't need to be a follower, just a searcher...
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Joined: July 12th, 2007, 3:45 pm

November 26th, 2008, 12:56 am #4

TW: Cryonics does seem to have many traits similar to Scientology... (like) absolute belief.

The first reply called cryonics an experiment - ie, we don't know if it will work yet.

TW: Large sums of cash to be a "member"...

It's $1000 for lifetime membership. I also pay $117/yr for life insurance.

Lack of meaningful discussion with those outside of the group...

You don't know any of us.

TW: Persecution of those who question it...

Everyone here questions it regularly. Stop trolling.
Last edited by Edward-M on November 26th, 2008, 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 1st, 2007, 8:16 am

November 26th, 2008, 5:32 am #5

Edward-M: “pure bullshit. This message has been edited by Edward-M”

Twrelated posed some questions that are being frequently asked by general public. A jerk responded with vulgarity. I think moderator should not permit such vulgarities here.
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Joined: July 12th, 2007, 3:45 pm

November 26th, 2008, 5:46 am #6

He compared us with scientology! He's not asking questions, but spreading myths & untrue stereotypes.
Last edited by Edward-M on November 26th, 2008, 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 20th, 2006, 8:13 pm

November 26th, 2008, 7:25 am #7

believers follow it (and invest large sums of money in it) purely on faith and hope. Because of the secrecy and seemly underground nature of the companies, their practices and cryonics followers.

Many religions were once underground because of persecution of their members.

Cryonics does seem to have many traits similar to Scientology, which is why I mentioned it:

Absolute belief...
Large sums of cash to be a "member"...
Lack of meaningful discussion with those outside of the group...
Futuristic scientific conclusions (SciFi)...
Persecution of those who question it...

Much like Christianity, or other religions.

Lawmakers, whistle blowers and other critics have been harassed from what I hear and read; not for trying to make it illegal but from even questioning or seeking some regulation.

Yes, there seems to be a history of less than honorable acts in the industry.

I'm not here to argue, or put cryonics followers down, I try and learn and understand: however, my perspective comes from being on the outside. There is a lot of discussion here on intimate technological details, but these simple questions I raise are much broader issues expressed by other ordinary people.

I'll take a look at the sites you mentioned. I don't need to be a follower, just a searcher...
Quoting TW:"Cryonics does seem to have many traits similar to Scientology, which is why I mentioned it:

Absolute belief...
Large sums of cash to be a "member"...
Lack of meaningful discussion with those outside of the group...
Futuristic scientific conclusions (SciFi)...
Persecution of those who question it...

Much like Christianity, or other religions.

Lawmakers, whistle blowers and other critics have been harassed from what I hear and read; not for trying to make it illegal but from even questioning or seeking some regulation."


You can hear what you want to hear out in the blogosphere. But the reality is the opposite. I talk to cryonicists constantly and daily. There are a few that could stand some lessons in manners, but hey, you can find that in any group.
cryonicists are way too loose of a group to be lumped together in such ways TW. And I've yet to meet anyone amongst us that has anything close to absolute belief. No idea where you're getting this. We all damn well know this is a grand experiment. Its a shot. And I see it and I'm going for it.
Why the heck not?
And you do NOT have to be rich. its completely obtainable.
I'd do your fact checking again.


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Joined: August 25th, 2005, 8:19 pm

November 26th, 2008, 1:33 pm #8

Edward-M: “pure bullshit. This message has been edited by Edward-M”

Twrelated posed some questions that are being frequently asked by general public. A jerk responded with vulgarity. I think moderator should not permit such vulgarities here.
TWrelated, I have been asking questions like yours since Cold Filter started. You will not get a straight answer here. As you just witnessed, when you ask a question or point out a simple concern the response is usually hostile. Very characteristic of a CULT.

I am a member of CI and I often question whether I belong to a religion or a cult. I dont believe in any of the people involved, I only believe in the science.

Other than FDs comments, I would take others with a grain of salt.

From my own research, these are people who have publically claimed they had been harassed by Alcor:

Scott D. Hill
Rick Bogan
Raymond Carrillo
Sephanie Albright
Jim Camp
Alan Kunzman
Rowe Worthington
Dan Cupido
Larry Johnson
Bob Stump
Rudy Thomas
Kenneth Nugent
Certain members of the Riverside County Board of Supervisors
and possibly you TWrelated, if Alcor ever discovers who you are.


DR
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Joined: November 16th, 2008, 3:16 pm

November 26th, 2008, 9:54 pm #9

Sorry, not trying to argue, I'm still trying to understand the position.

It seems to have aspects of all three.

Someone was just bending my ear on the history, questionable practices and harassment of non-believers by Cryonics followers; like Scientology.
Time will do the job of silencing the "control group" for us.
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Joined: November 16th, 2008, 3:16 pm

November 26th, 2008, 10:06 pm #10

believers follow it (and invest large sums of money in it) purely on faith and hope. Because of the secrecy and seemly underground nature of the companies, their practices and cryonics followers.

Many religions were once underground because of persecution of their members.

Cryonics does seem to have many traits similar to Scientology, which is why I mentioned it:

Absolute belief...
Large sums of cash to be a "member"...
Lack of meaningful discussion with those outside of the group...
Futuristic scientific conclusions (SciFi)...
Persecution of those who question it...

Much like Christianity, or other religions.

Lawmakers, whistle blowers and other critics have been harassed from what I hear and read; not for trying to make it illegal but from even questioning or seeking some regulation.

Yes, there seems to be a history of less than honorable acts in the industry.

I'm not here to argue, or put cryonics followers down, I try and learn and understand: however, my perspective comes from being on the outside. There is a lot of discussion here on intimate technological details, but these simple questions I raise are much broader issues expressed by other ordinary people.

I'll take a look at the sites you mentioned. I don't need to be a follower, just a searcher...
If it is, it's probably the first "religion" in the world with roots in materialist philosophy, as Steve Harris point out. That doesn't necessarily make the cryonics argument metaphysically "right," whatever that means. But it puts cryonics in line with the methodological naturalism assumed by modern science and medicine.
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