Documentation of Alcor's Financial Situation

Documentation of Alcor's Financial Situation

Joined: September 24th, 2005, 6:53 pm

November 24th, 2010, 3:53 am #1

I encourage anyone who has any interest in Alcor to look at this document:

http://www.alcor.org/Library/pdfs/Econo ... nances.pdf

Don't expect an easy read; it is written in a formal style. Do expect to reach some very disturbing and, I think, incontrovertible conclusions.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

November 25th, 2010, 5:25 am #2

(from the document Charles cited)

"But there are several problems with this approach. First, eliminating grandfathering might only modestly affect the rate of acquisition of new members but it could hit many existing members hard, some of whom have had their policies in place for many years and cant easily get replacement insurance at dramatically higher policy amounts either because theyre now older, or in poorer health, or both. Some members may be un-reinsurable at almost any price. Aside from its cryopatients to whom it owes the highest duty, Alcor owes its next highest duty to its existing members who, over the past years and in many cases decades, have faithfully supported the organization and its growth with dues, donations, and volunteer work, and whose presence alone has added the strength of numbers and has helped forge Alcor into the leading cryonics provider in the world. Eliminating grandfathering is likely to force a departure of some existing Alcor members, a preponderance of whom might have been with Alcor the longest (having the oldest and hence lowest-value policies in place). Overall membership growth would likely be at least temporarily depressed, perhaps even into negative rates, for some period of time.

"Second, Charles Platt believes that the existence of grandfathering has long been a disincentive against members leaving Alcor. Thats because as long as members stay with Alcor, they get a bargain and one that slowly increases in value over time. If members leave Alcor for another organization and then later try to return, theyll have to pay the then-current funding minimum which will most likely be higher than when they left. Phasing out grandfathering for existing members removes the disincentive against them quitting from Alcor, making them much more likely to go elsewhere. The continuation of grandfathering for existing members may be a necessary sacrifice if Alcor wants to continue receiving dues from as many members as possible."
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

November 25th, 2010, 5:30 am #3

I encourage anyone who has any interest in Alcor to look at this document:

http://www.alcor.org/Library/pdfs/Econo ... nances.pdf

Don't expect an easy read; it is written in a formal style. Do expect to reach some very disturbing and, I think, incontrovertible conclusions.
(from the document Charles cited)

"Paradoxically, with the current fee structure in place, Alcor is apparently losing money on every new member. ... Assuming current dues/fees and minimums, a +0%/yr growth track, no COLAs and retaining grandfathering, Alcors net revenue is predicted to be $727/yr higher in 2010 and $2045/yr higher by 2040 if it sheds one member in 2010."

And why wouldn't they want to quit, seeing as Alcor is reneging on its "grandfathering" concept by promising that if you do, you might end up buried next to Grandpa Bredo?!

Alas,

FD

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 30th, 2005, 4:41 am

November 25th, 2010, 6:04 am #4

A combination of chemical fixation along with cold storage could be done for pennies on the cryo-dollar.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

November 25th, 2010, 6:18 am #5

I encourage anyone who has any interest in Alcor to look at this document:

http://www.alcor.org/Library/pdfs/Econo ... nances.pdf

Don't expect an easy read; it is written in a formal style. Do expect to reach some very disturbing and, I think, incontrovertible conclusions.
http://www.alcor.org/blog/?p=1432

And so what was this about a problem regarding the "Budget impact of donations"?

Ever onward,

FD
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 30th, 2005, 4:41 am

November 25th, 2010, 6:55 am #6

Thanks, FD.  I'm pleased to learn of this news and wish to show strong support for a true endowment fund that can help stabilize Alcor's long-term financial obligations and challenges.  I think this endowment fund should be just as independent as the Patient Care Trust, if not more.

Whoever this unknown person is, I wish to extend my appreciation to you if you are fortunate to read my words at some point in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V5bggw1Y50
Last edited by MathewSullivan on November 25th, 2010, 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2006, 4:20 am

November 25th, 2010, 12:25 pm #7

I encourage anyone who has any interest in Alcor to look at this document:

http://www.alcor.org/Library/pdfs/Econo ... nances.pdf

Don't expect an easy read; it is written in a formal style. Do expect to reach some very disturbing and, I think, incontrovertible conclusions.
cryonics needs to grow its way out of insolvency, and that requires a paradigm shift---a paradigm shift that cannot be accepted by the core cryonicists, apparently.

The fact is that the way that cryonics is currently sold, it is only seen as valid by a tiny sliver of a fraction of the population. Hence the longterm financial problems that charles platt has pointed out. Now, I suspect that platt is really most deeply concerned about how rich cryonicists will have to bail out the rest of us. Platt has returned to this topic regularly over the past few years. Maybe he is being paid to do so by some rich cryos. Or maybe he came into some money and does not want to have to spend it bailing out alcor. Whatever.

The fact remains that only a tiny sliver of a fraction of the populace is psychologically eligible to even objectively evaluate cryonics. This has nothing to do with logic.

Homo sapiens is not at his core a rational animal, not when it comes to ideas that are outside the culture and deal with taboo areas like death.

And people are not going to change anytime soon. The culture is not going to change anytime soon.
No singularity is going to deus ex machina cryonics out of its current moribund state. Not in our lifetime.

Cryonics is many decades away from the technical breakthroughs that will allow cryonics to do a "brute force" bootstrap and sell to the general public by reviving animals. This is many decades away.

But cryonics is in the meantime in serious trouble unless the rich cryos support us. I think they should and they possibly will be able to do that.

My solution is for us activists to meld religion with cryonics. Outside of the cryonics organizations themselves. Go grassroots in protestant churches. As I and others have pointed out, there are a number of verses in the Bible that validate cryonics. Heck, these verses arguably DEMAND cryonics.

We could tap into a potential market that is orders of magnitude larger than the current group that sees cryonics as a valid option.

But like myself, most cryos are atheists. And many of them despise religion as I once did. If we are going to tap into the american mainstream and grow cryonics radically, we are going to have to PREACH cryonics using the Bible.

Are you enough of an egghead to realize and overcome your own prejudices? Stop fighting religion and start using religion.


Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

November 25th, 2010, 6:10 pm #8

So if an atheist were to join a funnymentalist Xian church and start acting like he believes certain verses in the "Bible," and gets the church to agree that cryonics is demanded therein, what do we have? Fraud and deception. The more intelligent people outside that church (e.g., the Press) would jump on this like a Cripple Creek girl on a boy.

Then cryonics, which already has enough of its share of bad press, would look even blacker in the eyes of the public.

Also, you would not reach mainstream Xianity with this sort of ploy. The only religionists you would convince are those in minority churches who are already prone to fanatical ideas. "Can I take my rattlesnake with me and handle him while I'm in the dewar?"

Give it up, un - it's an unworkable idea with tragic results if attempted.

FD
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2006, 4:20 am

November 25th, 2010, 7:03 pm #9

you really think that most religious people, even churchgoers, believe that there is a god? Not until the end, babe, and often even then they cannot believe. But they try hard to believe.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 17th, 2009, 5:13 pm

November 25th, 2010, 7:59 pm #10

Some cryonicists actually understand this sort of thing quite well:

http://lesswrong.com/lw/i4/belief_in_belief/

But then, FD doesn't like EY much. Maybe you'd get more out of it.
Quote
Like
Share