Define Cryonics

Define Cryonics

Joined: September 17th, 2004, 5:17 am

August 14th, 2010, 9:05 pm #1

If someone comes up to you and asks, "What is cryonics all about?", what would be your answer?

In order for cryonics to grow, the public needs to have a clear understanding of what cryonics organizations are about today. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I will post mine a little later.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

August 18th, 2010, 5:09 am #2

... and English is as current a language as Latin now is.

Perhaps Chinese would be a good pick? Russian and Japanese appear to be passe. Over time, English will have been surpassed in Canada by French, and in the USA by Spanish. Those will also be assimilated. And also of course the OMG Holy Singularity AI will not be using the alphabet characters and numbers familiar to the Western World. Stay tuned to get Adjusted.

Cheers,

FD
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Joined: September 17th, 2004, 5:17 am

August 19th, 2010, 2:16 am #3

My answer to this question addresses the public's misconceptions of cryonics, and how it adversely affects the growth (or lack thereof) of the cryonics movement. This is a discussion that I wish more cryonicists would engage in. Without growth in membership, and therefore lack of fresh dollars, cryonics will always be a small, fringe movement. The improvements that Melody is championing will never be realized consistently without financial growth. Research will continue to be slow and advances meager. Think about it, how far has cryonics advanced since Dr. Bedford was frozen forty-three years ago? Not nearly what one would expect for such a long period of existence.

When I talk to people outside of cryonics, their idea of what cryonics is all about is freezing dead bodies and bringing them back. In reality, cryonics is all about stopping the dying process and preserving people, as best as humanly possible, so that future scientific advancements can hopefully repair and revive them. The science of cryonics is about perfecting the preservation of patients, NOT reviving them. There is little doubt that a body perfectly preserved at the exact time of death, with no cellular damage, will some day be revived. When I explain cryonics this way, the light seems to come on, and people seem to be more receptive to the idea.

If cryonics is to succeed, the public perception needs to change. As it is, cryonics is seen as cold and creepy, all about death. Cryonics should be seen as a means of protecting and extending the gift of life. I would love to see Alcor and CI implement public outreach programs like Bob Ettinger and Bob Nelson did in the early days. Even today it wouldn't be too difficult to find news and talk programs that would love to discuss cryonics.
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Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:52 am

August 19th, 2010, 2:42 am #4

Robin Hanson in the NYTimes piece probably reminds people of the nerdy kid they knew in middle school who got beaten up by the boys destined to grow up into alpha males. The perception of Robin's low status (including an older wife who doesn't respect him) led to the generally hostile comments readers appended to that story.

If, by contrast, Howley had found and written about a married cryonicist businessman, financially successful, with regular guy interests like hunting and sports, the hint that he still has his "game" going for him, and a younger, pretty wife who disagreed with him about cryonics, I would bet that this alternative article would have generated fewer negative responses because of our natural disinclination to attack alpha males.
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Joined: November 30th, 2005, 4:41 am

August 19th, 2010, 4:00 am #5

... and English is as current a language as Latin now is.

Perhaps Chinese would be a good pick? Russian and Japanese appear to be passe. Over time, English will have been surpassed in Canada by French, and in the USA by Spanish. Those will also be assimilated. And also of course the OMG Holy Singularity AI will not be using the alphabet characters and numbers familiar to the Western World. Stay tuned to get Adjusted.

Cheers,

FD
Pay attention to the start of the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY
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Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:52 am

August 19th, 2010, 4:16 am #6

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... population

In fact, educated Indians need to speak English because the country has no common language otherwise. Writer Pico Iyer's parents had to communicate in English in their marriage because they grew up speaking mutually unintelligible native Indian languages.
Last edited by advancedatheist on August 19th, 2010, 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 30th, 2005, 4:41 am

August 19th, 2010, 4:49 am #7

I know of someone who is from India, and he recently informed me there are over 1,600 different dialects in India. I was so astounded I think my jaw hit the floor.

Here is version 4.0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ILQrUrEWe8
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

August 19th, 2010, 12:51 pm #8

My answer to this question addresses the public's misconceptions of cryonics, and how it adversely affects the growth (or lack thereof) of the cryonics movement. This is a discussion that I wish more cryonicists would engage in. Without growth in membership, and therefore lack of fresh dollars, cryonics will always be a small, fringe movement. The improvements that Melody is championing will never be realized consistently without financial growth. Research will continue to be slow and advances meager. Think about it, how far has cryonics advanced since Dr. Bedford was frozen forty-three years ago? Not nearly what one would expect for such a long period of existence.

When I talk to people outside of cryonics, their idea of what cryonics is all about is freezing dead bodies and bringing them back. In reality, cryonics is all about stopping the dying process and preserving people, as best as humanly possible, so that future scientific advancements can hopefully repair and revive them. The science of cryonics is about perfecting the preservation of patients, NOT reviving them. There is little doubt that a body perfectly preserved at the exact time of death, with no cellular damage, will some day be revived. When I explain cryonics this way, the light seems to come on, and people seem to be more receptive to the idea.

If cryonics is to succeed, the public perception needs to change. As it is, cryonics is seen as cold and creepy, all about death. Cryonics should be seen as a means of protecting and extending the gift of life. I would love to see Alcor and CI implement public outreach programs like Bob Ettinger and Bob Nelson did in the early days. Even today it wouldn't be too difficult to find news and talk programs that would love to discuss cryonics.
Ken wrote: "The improvements that Melody is championing will never be realized consistently without financial growth."

I, respectfully, disagree. The improvements I suggest are nothing more than bringing people skilled to perform existing, specific medical procedures, into well-funded facilities, such as Alcor and Suspended Animation. It's unreasonable for those companies to argue they cannot afford such people. I am a skilled perfusionist, with a lot of experience. I was very happy with my salary at SA, and there were at least three salaries higher than mine. (I'm not complaining, I'm simply stating that SA could have afforded additional qualified personnel.) The other benefits, which included very few cases, medical insurance, dental insurance, profit-sharing, four paid weeks of vacation a year, a large private office, a large Christmas bonus, and the freedom to determine my own hours for the most part, were also very desirable. There were no cases, at SA, during the ten months I was involved with that company, and I believe they did not have a single case, for nearly three years. Even if there had been a dozen, or more, cases per year, it would have been a vast improvement over the hours I pulled, and the middle-of-the night call-outs, during my last five years working in conventional medicine!!!

SA could have, and should have, hired personnel skilled in performing vascular cannulations and perfusion, by now, as those are the procedures they claim to be able to provide. I believe they have a budget approaching $1.5M a year, (the majority of that certainly related to salaries, and other employee-related expenses). At last count, they had six full-time staff members, none who were qualified to perform the procedures they are marketing. Does it make sense to have six unqualified people sitting around, 40 hours a week, while spending a bundle on contracted persons, (who may, or may not, show up for cases), to perform the procedures? No, it doesn't. If they are not hiring qualified staff members, it is not for lack of funding. It is because they don't try very hard to find such people, or they don't know how to find such people, or certain people are afraid they will no longer be needed, if qualified persons are brought onboard. When someone who is skilled in delivering the needed medical procedures, happens to find them, all hell is bound to break loose, because the changes people who understand inducing hypothermia via perfusion, would insist upon, would end a lot of very lucrative, unproductive "research" projects, most of which are ridiculous. There is currently a lot of valid scientific research being carried out, in the area of hypothermic medicine, which LEF and/or Alcor could invest in.

I can't answer Ken's question about what cryonics "is," without getting kicked off the forum, but what it should be is an extension of existing circulatory arrest procedures, where people are cooled to a state of death, for certain medical procedures, and then resuscitated, memory and personality, intact. If Ken thinks there is not enough money, being spent in cryonics each year, to provide that existing level of care, he is sadly mistaken. There's significantly more than enough, there are just too many people opposed to change.
Last edited by melmax on August 19th, 2010, 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

August 20th, 2010, 6:34 am #9

OK, for those who have not entirely been paying attention, this is one area where I totally AGREE with Melody. Nothing new, always have.

The issue I guess is what to do with it. You can't string Saul & Bill up by the b*lls and f*rce them to spend their money in a rational manner.

They can spend their bucks on astrologers to come in and bless the dewars, should they so choose. What regulation could ever stop them?

My view is regulation never will. All regulation is likely to get is "hey Jack, it looks like a cemetery!". It isn't going to get down to the real issues. Sterner regulation could do serious damage. We hope not to put names next to whatever would cause that.

So, we are now left with: No compliance. No effective regulation.

What next, you movers of the dark side?

FD
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Joined: May 17th, 2009, 5:13 pm

August 20th, 2010, 11:38 pm #10

If someone comes up to you and asks, "What is cryonics all about?", what would be your answer?

In order for cryonics to grow, the public needs to have a clear understanding of what cryonics organizations are about today. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I will post mine a little later.
Cryonics: Getting a second opinion from future medical science to make sure we don't accidentally kill someone who wasn't actually dead.
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