cryomedical contact information

cryomedical contact information

Joined: December 2nd, 2010, 9:03 pm

December 2nd, 2010, 9:05 pm #1

http://cryomedical.blogspot.com/

Contact info for the owner of that blog? Appears to be melmax...?
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

December 3rd, 2010, 11:52 pm #2

http://cryonet.org/cgi-bin/findmsgs.cgi ... %2520maxim
http://cryonet.org/cgi-bin/findmsgs.cgi ... dy%20maxim

and her email address in those posts is public information. I would suppose it is still good.

FD
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Joined: June 5th, 2009, 12:29 am

December 5th, 2010, 5:07 pm #3

http://cryomedical.blogspot.com/

Contact info for the owner of that blog? Appears to be melmax...?
"Just recently, Mr. Kent has been associated with a new push to market cryonics in Europe, with the leader of that effort being a silly young man who has held positions of power in the Church of Satan, and the Temple of Vampires. The new cryonics "leader," someone who seems to be supported by Saul Kent and Ben Best, is not a medical professional, or a scientist, but a known cult member in organizations thought, by most, to be nothing more than pyramid schemes? That's beyond ridiculous, and it makes it VERY hard to believe Mr. Kent, Mr. Best and their peers are actually interested in advancing the science of hypothermic medicine."

Is that true?

Personally I wouldn't want a vampire around, and I don't believe a satanist would have my best interest's at heart.
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Joined: September 16th, 2010, 2:14 pm

December 5th, 2010, 7:28 pm #4

> Personally I wouldn't want a vampire around, and I don't believe a satanist would have my best interest's at heart.

Now the solution to that would be to get someone else to handle your cryonics arrangements, right?
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

December 6th, 2010, 1:54 am #5

"Just recently, Mr. Kent has been associated with a new push to market cryonics in Europe, with the leader of that effort being a silly young man who has held positions of power in the Church of Satan, and the Temple of Vampires. The new cryonics "leader," someone who seems to be supported by Saul Kent and Ben Best, is not a medical professional, or a scientist, but a known cult member in organizations thought, by most, to be nothing more than pyramid schemes? That's beyond ridiculous, and it makes it VERY hard to believe Mr. Kent, Mr. Best and their peers are actually interested in advancing the science of hypothermic medicine."

Is that true?

Personally I wouldn't want a vampire around, and I don't believe a satanist would have my best interest's at heart.
I don't think you have much cause for concern, queensblade, especially if you do not live in Europe where the new organization EUCRIO markets its services. Some of the statements in the piece you quoted are indeed "beyond ridiculous". Where is the evidence or reference for the claim that any USA cryonics organization (or persons for that matter) are "supporting" EUCRIO? All the support I have heard of for it is from entities in Europe. Someone seems to be jumping to the conclusion that because Saul Kent and some others were in Europe looking at the new developments and attending presentations, that they therefore back and support it. That would typically mean financially, so where's the proof of that happening? None that I know of. Whether they think EUCRIO is a good idea or not is not terribly important (though it could be a meaning of "support") in any case.

Now those whose real motive is to destroy cryonics don't seem to mind using ad hominem attacks to do it. The claim is he "is not a medical professional, or a scientist" but true or not, since when is that a requirement to start a business, as long as you hire or contract the appropriate personnel? And what does a person's religious preferences have to do with whether they are qualified to start a cryonics company, even if they are of the less popular and conventional such as Church of Satan or Temple of the Vampire? Someone thinks that makes him a "silly young man" but I thought religious discrimination was un-American?! And to add to the spin, the churches mentioned are labelled (libelled?) as pyramid schemes - where is the evidence for that? I've heard of Church of Satan most of my life and never heard of pyramid schemes connected with it. I looked at the other one's website and the only financial items I could find were under $100, one-time purchases. But even if there were such schemes connected with those churches, does that make every church member guilty? And what does it have to do with cryonics? And where is the evidence that EUCRIO's founder is indeed affiliated with them, not that it matters?

The only explanation I can think of for this new take on cryonics-bashing is "there's a new organization on the block, we've got to give it its share". I'm just amazed - it hasn't even been around long enough to do anything that could be criticized yet, and the anti's are already out there with pitchforks.

So it goes,

FD
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Joined: October 21st, 2009, 11:29 am

December 6th, 2010, 7:45 pm #6

I saw this on one of the "anti cryonics sites" it seems to be a direct quote that's been on line for some time without any rebuttal.

Attributed to David Styles:

"What does this mean? - "I have additionally spoken with Ben Best regarding the situation, operating on the assumption that if ******* is contacting everyone and their cat about this, it will also reach CI's ears. As, up until this point, Ben was the only person remotely suspicious of me, when the rumour reached him it would answer a lot of questions he had, so it was better if he had the facts from me first.

I should mention that I did get permission from Nemo who in turn got permission from Senior Management regarding this.

I filled Ben in on the past couple of decades of secrets that he has missed, and brainstormed with him regarding fixes for this situation.

He took it very well and reacted very reasonably, by the way.

He shares my suspicion that Andy Zawacki will not take it at all well or react very reasonably.

He will endeavour to intercept the CI email, which he checks while Andy is away (as he currently is for a few days), in the hopes of deleting anything from ******* before Andy sees it. It is understood however that Andy might still read it first on his Blackberry.

He thinks that it is possible that Andy will react suddenly with a public disavowal of any such associations, but more likely that he will take it to the CI Board of Directors for them to tackle.

The CI Board of Directors meets only once every few months, but will meet this Sunday.

If Andy hears of this in time to take it to the Directors before Sunday, and it is raised in the meeting, Ben will argue the case for watching and waiting at least a little bit before taking any action. This will mean no action will be taken before the next Board meeting, a few months away. This will give us breathing room.

Ben thinks it would be a good idea if, to help matters more in future, we could get someone on the Board of Directors in the next election. The deadline for becoming a candidate is August the 7th, 2010, but he advises to announce intention as early as possible to be listed in Long Life magazine.

Ben thinks that despite this current PR situation, I'd stand a good chance of being elected, given my reputation and what I have already done in the field.

Ben thinks it would not look suspicious, and advises that my recent election to the ImmInst Board of Directors did not look at all suspicious, and rather than acting against me, would stand in my favour.

Ben would support my candidacy."

If the above is accurate I'd say the CI president promising to withold information from the CI board of directors was evidence of support, wouldn't you say.

I'm a CI member living in Europe and I'm aghast to see stuff like this surfacing, especially as it involves top management in CI.
I worry about such an agenda, whatever it is, and given the current low esteem in which cryonics is held by the vast majority of the world population, wonder what might be expected if and when the european press start reporting on people heavily involved in the promotion of cryonics who also profess to be involved in satanism and are wannabe vampires.

Good marketing? Unimportant? I don't think so.

I'm now of the firm opinion that cryonics MUST be regulated, for my sake if nothing else.
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Joined: September 16th, 2010, 2:14 pm

December 6th, 2010, 8:12 pm #7

I don't think you have much cause for concern, queensblade, especially if you do not live in Europe where the new organization EUCRIO markets its services. Some of the statements in the piece you quoted are indeed "beyond ridiculous". Where is the evidence or reference for the claim that any USA cryonics organization (or persons for that matter) are "supporting" EUCRIO? All the support I have heard of for it is from entities in Europe. Someone seems to be jumping to the conclusion that because Saul Kent and some others were in Europe looking at the new developments and attending presentations, that they therefore back and support it. That would typically mean financially, so where's the proof of that happening? None that I know of. Whether they think EUCRIO is a good idea or not is not terribly important (though it could be a meaning of "support") in any case.

Now those whose real motive is to destroy cryonics don't seem to mind using ad hominem attacks to do it. The claim is he "is not a medical professional, or a scientist" but true or not, since when is that a requirement to start a business, as long as you hire or contract the appropriate personnel? And what does a person's religious preferences have to do with whether they are qualified to start a cryonics company, even if they are of the less popular and conventional such as Church of Satan or Temple of the Vampire? Someone thinks that makes him a "silly young man" but I thought religious discrimination was un-American?! And to add to the spin, the churches mentioned are labelled (libelled?) as pyramid schemes - where is the evidence for that? I've heard of Church of Satan most of my life and never heard of pyramid schemes connected with it. I looked at the other one's website and the only financial items I could find were under $100, one-time purchases. But even if there were such schemes connected with those churches, does that make every church member guilty? And what does it have to do with cryonics? And where is the evidence that EUCRIO's founder is indeed affiliated with them, not that it matters?

The only explanation I can think of for this new take on cryonics-bashing is "there's a new organization on the block, we've got to give it its share". I'm just amazed - it hasn't even been around long enough to do anything that could be criticized yet, and the anti's are already out there with pitchforks.

So it goes,

FD
> I thought religious discrimination was un-American?

Actually this is not religious discrimination, it is freedom of association.

If people don't want to associate with members of the Church of Satan (or fundamentalists like me), they shouldn't have to. :)

This principle is more or less recognized in American law (or legal precedent, at least), but the boundary between "public" and "private" institutions is somewhat blurred and makes it tricky at times to determine which principle applies.
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Joined: September 16th, 2010, 2:14 pm

December 6th, 2010, 8:17 pm #8

I saw this on one of the "anti cryonics sites" it seems to be a direct quote that's been on line for some time without any rebuttal.

Attributed to David Styles:

"What does this mean? - "I have additionally spoken with Ben Best regarding the situation, operating on the assumption that if ******* is contacting everyone and their cat about this, it will also reach CI's ears. As, up until this point, Ben was the only person remotely suspicious of me, when the rumour reached him it would answer a lot of questions he had, so it was better if he had the facts from me first.

I should mention that I did get permission from Nemo who in turn got permission from Senior Management regarding this.

I filled Ben in on the past couple of decades of secrets that he has missed, and brainstormed with him regarding fixes for this situation.

He took it very well and reacted very reasonably, by the way.

He shares my suspicion that Andy Zawacki will not take it at all well or react very reasonably.

He will endeavour to intercept the CI email, which he checks while Andy is away (as he currently is for a few days), in the hopes of deleting anything from ******* before Andy sees it. It is understood however that Andy might still read it first on his Blackberry.

He thinks that it is possible that Andy will react suddenly with a public disavowal of any such associations, but more likely that he will take it to the CI Board of Directors for them to tackle.

The CI Board of Directors meets only once every few months, but will meet this Sunday.

If Andy hears of this in time to take it to the Directors before Sunday, and it is raised in the meeting, Ben will argue the case for watching and waiting at least a little bit before taking any action. This will mean no action will be taken before the next Board meeting, a few months away. This will give us breathing room.

Ben thinks it would be a good idea if, to help matters more in future, we could get someone on the Board of Directors in the next election. The deadline for becoming a candidate is August the 7th, 2010, but he advises to announce intention as early as possible to be listed in Long Life magazine.

Ben thinks that despite this current PR situation, I'd stand a good chance of being elected, given my reputation and what I have already done in the field.

Ben thinks it would not look suspicious, and advises that my recent election to the ImmInst Board of Directors did not look at all suspicious, and rather than acting against me, would stand in my favour.

Ben would support my candidacy."

If the above is accurate I'd say the CI president promising to withold information from the CI board of directors was evidence of support, wouldn't you say.

I'm a CI member living in Europe and I'm aghast to see stuff like this surfacing, especially as it involves top management in CI.
I worry about such an agenda, whatever it is, and given the current low esteem in which cryonics is held by the vast majority of the world population, wonder what might be expected if and when the european press start reporting on people heavily involved in the promotion of cryonics who also profess to be involved in satanism and are wannabe vampires.

Good marketing? Unimportant? I don't think so.

I'm now of the firm opinion that cryonics MUST be regulated, for my sake if nothing else.
> I'm now of the firm opinion that cryonics MUST be regulated, for my sake if nothing else.

I can't understand why you conclude this instead of "I'm now of the firm opinion that new cryonics institutions must be created, along lines that seem more likely to me to be trustworthy and successful."

You've concluded that you can't trust your cryonics institution.

And you're concluding that you can trust other people to make your institution trustworthy.

I'm missing a step in your logic, here. What process do you propose to select regulators that will make your institution trustworthy? How is this going to work?
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Joined: October 21st, 2009, 11:29 am

December 6th, 2010, 9:17 pm #9

I have not concluded that I don't trust my cryonics institution.

What I don't trust are SOME of the people running these organisations.

The cure is stunningly obvious, to me at least.

If new organisations are required I'm sure they will be created,
when it's steam engine time etc.
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Joined: September 16th, 2010, 2:14 pm

December 6th, 2010, 9:59 pm #10

I'm still not following how you are planning to select trustworthy people to oversee the untrustworthy people in your cryonics organization.
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