Panerai Vs RXW

Panerai Vs RXW

Joined: July 6th, 2005, 8:41 pm

July 25th, 2005, 3:25 am #1

Does anyone here know the particulars of the Panerai / RXW lawsuit? I have a feeling that the suit had to be about the lever lock. Because watches with the basic design have been around forever, minus the lever lock. I know that Rolex had a patent on the screw down crown and for a while and no one was able to have a timepiece with a screw down crown. However, today almost all diving timepieces have the "Rolex system" on their timepieces, some of which look just the part of a Rolex watch; Invicta, Croton, and many, many others. Now, said watches are not considered knock offs. Why? Well, quite simple, they do not say Rolex on the dial. If the same standard was to be applied to countless of brands, these would have to be regarded (if we were a bit consistent) as knock offs. The RXW MM20 doesn't say Panerai anywhere then... what seems to be the problem here? Fact is that the RXW MM20 rivals the Fiddy any day, and we all know it. Now, you have most of these knock offs with russian movements, that say Panerai and 1950 on the dial and some say Marina Militare. That's clearly a knock off! This is even true of car manufacturers. Take a look at the Passat and the Altima... I don't hear anyone calling the Altima a knock off. Now, if Nissan would make the car and name it a Passat, that would be another $20 bucks.

C. Soler
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Joined: September 21st, 2004, 1:53 pm

July 25th, 2005, 5:35 am #2

Has anyone bought one of the Russian MM20's if so please
Can you do a comparison between the RXW and the Russian one.
Also both vs the Pam 1950
I am keen to buy an MM20 or the other and want the best quality one.
i am not fussed about the box papers etc as I plan on keeping it,
cheers
Last edited by amchk on July 25th, 2005, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 6th, 2005, 8:41 pm

July 25th, 2005, 12:26 pm #3

Unitas. Unitas is a workhorse that has been tested and praised by everyone in the watch business. Better quality? Unitas hands down. Please consider that even Panerai, and everyone else, of reputation, who puts a manual wind in threir timepieces, choose this same movement.

Soler
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Joined: November 19th, 2004, 5:51 pm

July 25th, 2005, 4:46 pm #4

Has anyone bought one of the Russian MM20's if so please
Can you do a comparison between the RXW and the Russian one.
Also both vs the Pam 1950
I am keen to buy an MM20 or the other and want the best quality one.
i am not fussed about the box papers etc as I plan on keeping it,
cheers
I've owned a MM20 twice (one mineral, one sapphire)and the Rusky model is ALMOST identical to the Mineral watch, in every respect bar the dial (numerals appear just slightly smaller than the real thing, about the size of the ones on the Fiddy). Otherwise, it is the same watch bar the movement. Luminosity, sandwich effect, hands matt blackness - all spot on. Case finishing is pretty good too (same as the original as far as I could make out). I'm fairly sure it's mineral crystal as the numbers don't distort as on the sapphire model.

WRT the movement: I don't know the precise model numbers but I'm told by the dealer the RXW contains the upgraded Molnja movemet with proper shock protection and high-grade regulation as used by the better Poljot International handwounds. There are some cheap Molnja movements around without shock protection and with very poor regulation - as sold in Russian pocket watches for $20 a throw. But the Rusky RXW (if it contains essentially the same movement as on the fake Fiddys doing the rounds, as I'm told it does) is an entirely different proposition. This upgraded Molnja movement was first used in the $700 Poljot International Moscow Nights, which is a cracker and as I recall one limited edition of these were certified to the Russian equivalent of COSC. My Rusky is keeping time +4sec per day and the lever assembly is perfect (better than the first of my two Ken RXWs). The Unitas is a good design but there's more than one rendtion of this movement - the base model as fitted to the RXW is a very different beast to the upgraded, decorated ones sold by the likes of Eberhard and DJR. Comparing the two movements as used in the respective RXW models, I really don't think there's much in it.

I just had to own this watch - the MM20 was just too big (too much of an occasional wearer for me) to lay out $1k for it, but at $200 I'm delighted to own one. I'm glad this has been done - the RXW was always a very dubious proposition in terms of intellectual property, this is hardly any moreso. However it's always been a nice piece and I'm glad to have one for sensible money. This is by no means a cut and dried, normal fake of an original design as (Marina Militare branding and lever design aside) it appears to be made by the original manufacturer of Ken's RXW - very possibly by agreement (as Ken isn't allowed to sell them any more due to the Japanese court ruling).

I do feel sorry for the poor buggers that laid out $1400+ for these in the height of the RXW boom, with the NIB price now dropping back to the $1000 mark, the bubble is now well and truly burst (though there's no doubt that the originals will always fetch something of a premium over the ruskys).

If this board plays fair it should welcome Rusky owners with open arms (if only to wind up the more snobbish Paneristi).
Last edited by kk-uk2 on July 25th, 2005, 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 6th, 2005, 7:12 pm

July 25th, 2005, 7:43 pm #5

Moljina movement 6309 it's a dependable movement, mine is running +1, a lot of watch for the money. I'm pretty sure it is a sapphire crystal, just not dome. I have done the water test the cold test, and real world test ( by accident)banged the crystal pretty hard not a scratch. I like this watch. just my 0.02 cent worth.
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Joined: January 1st, 2005, 8:27 pm

July 25th, 2005, 8:48 pm #6

I've owned a MM20 twice (one mineral, one sapphire)and the Rusky model is ALMOST identical to the Mineral watch, in every respect bar the dial (numerals appear just slightly smaller than the real thing, about the size of the ones on the Fiddy). Otherwise, it is the same watch bar the movement. Luminosity, sandwich effect, hands matt blackness - all spot on. Case finishing is pretty good too (same as the original as far as I could make out). I'm fairly sure it's mineral crystal as the numbers don't distort as on the sapphire model.

WRT the movement: I don't know the precise model numbers but I'm told by the dealer the RXW contains the upgraded Molnja movemet with proper shock protection and high-grade regulation as used by the better Poljot International handwounds. There are some cheap Molnja movements around without shock protection and with very poor regulation - as sold in Russian pocket watches for $20 a throw. But the Rusky RXW (if it contains essentially the same movement as on the fake Fiddys doing the rounds, as I'm told it does) is an entirely different proposition. This upgraded Molnja movement was first used in the $700 Poljot International Moscow Nights, which is a cracker and as I recall one limited edition of these were certified to the Russian equivalent of COSC. My Rusky is keeping time +4sec per day and the lever assembly is perfect (better than the first of my two Ken RXWs). The Unitas is a good design but there's more than one rendtion of this movement - the base model as fitted to the RXW is a very different beast to the upgraded, decorated ones sold by the likes of Eberhard and DJR. Comparing the two movements as used in the respective RXW models, I really don't think there's much in it.

I just had to own this watch - the MM20 was just too big (too much of an occasional wearer for me) to lay out $1k for it, but at $200 I'm delighted to own one. I'm glad this has been done - the RXW was always a very dubious proposition in terms of intellectual property, this is hardly any moreso. However it's always been a nice piece and I'm glad to have one for sensible money. This is by no means a cut and dried, normal fake of an original design as (Marina Militare branding and lever design aside) it appears to be made by the original manufacturer of Ken's RXW - very possibly by agreement (as Ken isn't allowed to sell them any more due to the Japanese court ruling).

I do feel sorry for the poor buggers that laid out $1400+ for these in the height of the RXW boom, with the NIB price now dropping back to the $1000 mark, the bubble is now well and truly burst (though there's no doubt that the originals will always fetch something of a premium over the ruskys).

If this board plays fair it should welcome Rusky owners with open arms (if only to wind up the more snobbish Paneristi).
I was curious too.
The crown lever the the Russian MM20s is not as thick and seems a little cheaper than the Japanese MM20s (RXW). Other than that, a well made watch for $200 - $300.

Don't get me wrong, my Panerai are going nowhere. But hey a nice beater. I mostly just wanted the case for a project.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 3:56 pm

July 25th, 2005, 8:49 pm #7

Unitas. Unitas is a workhorse that has been tested and praised by everyone in the watch business. Better quality? Unitas hands down. Please consider that even Panerai, and everyone else, of reputation, who puts a manual wind in threir timepieces, choose this same movement.

Soler
nt

<img src=http://fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/st ... 0773882292>
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Joined: November 19th, 2004, 5:51 pm

July 26th, 2005, 12:01 am #8

...that was what the watchmaker charged me. Can be done a LOT cheaper than $400 usd.
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Joined: November 19th, 2004, 5:51 pm

July 26th, 2005, 12:05 am #9

I was curious too.
The crown lever the the Russian MM20s is not as thick and seems a little cheaper than the Japanese MM20s (RXW). Other than that, a well made watch for $200 - $300.

Don't get me wrong, my Panerai are going nowhere. But hey a nice beater. I mostly just wanted the case for a project.
You aren't one of the blinkered numpties I was talking about.

I have had quite a number of real Pannies (PAM1, PAM104, PAM55, PAM118, PAM111 twice!) too, but I find the atmosphere over there a bit sick-making and self-righteous. I basically only ever go there to see what straps are available or when I have a Panny to sell.
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Joined: December 1st, 2003, 1:30 pm

July 26th, 2005, 4:36 pm #10

Does anyone here know the particulars of the Panerai / RXW lawsuit? I have a feeling that the suit had to be about the lever lock. Because watches with the basic design have been around forever, minus the lever lock. I know that Rolex had a patent on the screw down crown and for a while and no one was able to have a timepiece with a screw down crown. However, today almost all diving timepieces have the "Rolex system" on their timepieces, some of which look just the part of a Rolex watch; Invicta, Croton, and many, many others. Now, said watches are not considered knock offs. Why? Well, quite simple, they do not say Rolex on the dial. If the same standard was to be applied to countless of brands, these would have to be regarded (if we were a bit consistent) as knock offs. The RXW MM20 doesn't say Panerai anywhere then... what seems to be the problem here? Fact is that the RXW MM20 rivals the Fiddy any day, and we all know it. Now, you have most of these knock offs with russian movements, that say Panerai and 1950 on the dial and some say Marina Militare. That's clearly a knock off! This is even true of car manufacturers. Take a look at the Passat and the Altima... I don't hear anyone calling the Altima a knock off. Now, if Nissan would make the car and name it a Passat, that would be another $20 bucks.

C. Soler
I just ordered a Russky for $200 plus shipping. I have an MM20 and used to have a 1950, and I'm very curious about this one. I'll probably send it out for PVD coating, and maybe gold hands.

Mitch
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