Why is it i can only ever find Hand wind Seaguls..>>>>

Why is it i can only ever find Hand wind Seaguls..>>>>

Joined: August 15th, 2007, 11:07 am

May 4th, 2011, 1:27 pm #1

I know i tend to stick to UK Ebay but auto versions of the 29jewel Seagulls rarely crop up.Am i looking on the wrong sites or are they that rare.

Theneilo uk

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Joined: February 28th, 2006, 10:40 pm

May 4th, 2011, 3:51 pm #2

The 29 jewel ones are ST7s and rumour is that only about 3000 or so were ever made. Mine is at Archer Watches for a regulation and I asked Al to take lots of pics and to post his thoughts on the watch and the movement here when he is done.

These are pretty rare and I do not know what current market prices are for them:



It runs at 28800 bph, hacks and handwinds, and has quickset for the day/date. It is unusual in that the first crown position sets the time and the second is the day/date quickset. This is the opposite of any other auto I have ever owned.

This one was running about +6 secs per day on Archer's machine.

Again, I have heard produciton figures of around 3000 total produced. You have to remember that this watch was made in the 1970s when quartz watches were really taking off. Then, you couple that with the fact that China was a closed country at this time. So, they made a watch with a higher end movement which would go up against a Tissot; yet was sold at home where the average worker could not afford it. This was the proverbial square peg in a round hole...

Here is what it says on the Chinese watch wiki:

"In the late 1970s/early 1980s, Tianjin Watch Factory developed a watch of a higher grade than the ST5. This was the Sea-Gull ST7 day/date automatic. The movement design showed some ETA/Eterna inspiration, and the micrometer regulator suggests the kind of accuracy that was expected of it. Unfortunately at this time 'Red China' was a closed country to the rest of the world, and nothing was known of their watch industry. It now seems unreasonable that a foreign watch buyer might have chosen a Sea-Gull over the nearest equivalent from Tissot or Titoni. On the other hand, how many ordinary people in China could have afforded such a watch? The ST7 was an excellent watch without a market."

Link to the Chinese Watch Wiki:
http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/i ... in_Seagull

The other vintage Sea-Gull auto is the ST5-D which (from what I know) is an auto wind added onto the ST5 handwind. This reminds me of the Seiko Gyro Marvels that I own. It was an auto module added to the Marvel handwind movement.

This one runs at 21600 bph like the ST5 handwinds. It also has a date complication which the ST5 handwind lacks. My only issue with this watch is the lack of a quickset for the date mechanism...


Keep an eye out for these... I am pretty sure many more of these were made than the ST-7...



Which one have you been seeing for sale? If it is date only then it is a ST5-D. If it is day/date with the date/just like bezel treatment then it is the very rare ST7.




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Joined: August 15th, 2007, 11:07 am

May 4th, 2011, 5:05 pm #3

That info was required Reading Mark and i appreciate you takin the time to post it for me.
Its the 29 Jewel i want so the ST7 looks like the one i want.

Theneilo uk

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Joined: October 25th, 2005, 9:59 pm

May 4th, 2011, 8:11 pm #4

I know i tend to stick to UK Ebay but auto versions of the 29jewel Seagulls rarely crop up.Am i looking on the wrong sites or are they that rare.

Theneilo uk

same size as the ST5.....send me an email and it's yours....<img alt="happy.gif" src="/images/happy.gif" width="14" height="14"> (took it out of the box, shook it once, and the seconds hand began to tick over!)

Only prob is ..you will have to find a Nissan car with same color to wear it! hahahaha!

"<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/554 ... 3cee_b.jpg">"
Last edited by thianwong on May 4th, 2011, 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 8th, 2007, 10:15 pm

May 4th, 2011, 9:39 pm #5

The 29 jewel ones are ST7s and rumour is that only about 3000 or so were ever made. Mine is at Archer Watches for a regulation and I asked Al to take lots of pics and to post his thoughts on the watch and the movement here when he is done.

These are pretty rare and I do not know what current market prices are for them:



It runs at 28800 bph, hacks and handwinds, and has quickset for the day/date. It is unusual in that the first crown position sets the time and the second is the day/date quickset. This is the opposite of any other auto I have ever owned.

This one was running about +6 secs per day on Archer's machine.

Again, I have heard produciton figures of around 3000 total produced. You have to remember that this watch was made in the 1970s when quartz watches were really taking off. Then, you couple that with the fact that China was a closed country at this time. So, they made a watch with a higher end movement which would go up against a Tissot; yet was sold at home where the average worker could not afford it. This was the proverbial square peg in a round hole...

Here is what it says on the Chinese watch wiki:

"In the late 1970s/early 1980s, Tianjin Watch Factory developed a watch of a higher grade than the ST5. This was the Sea-Gull ST7 day/date automatic. The movement design showed some ETA/Eterna inspiration, and the micrometer regulator suggests the kind of accuracy that was expected of it. Unfortunately at this time 'Red China' was a closed country to the rest of the world, and nothing was known of their watch industry. It now seems unreasonable that a foreign watch buyer might have chosen a Sea-Gull over the nearest equivalent from Tissot or Titoni. On the other hand, how many ordinary people in China could have afforded such a watch? The ST7 was an excellent watch without a market."

Link to the Chinese Watch Wiki:
http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/i ... in_Seagull

The other vintage Sea-Gull auto is the ST5-D which (from what I know) is an auto wind added onto the ST5 handwind. This reminds me of the Seiko Gyro Marvels that I own. It was an auto module added to the Marvel handwind movement.

This one runs at 21600 bph like the ST5 handwinds. It also has a date complication which the ST5 handwind lacks. My only issue with this watch is the lack of a quickset for the date mechanism...


Keep an eye out for these... I am pretty sure many more of these were made than the ST-7...



Which one have you been seeing for sale? If it is date only then it is a ST5-D. If it is day/date with the date/just like bezel treatment then it is the very rare ST7.



Hi Mark,

I have been working on the ST7 for you. You wanted it regulated, and also noted that the manual winding was a bit stiff and jerky.

The case back was screwed on very tightly - had to use a lot of force on the opener to get it open:



Here is a shot of the movement:



Not anything too fancy in terms of decoration, but not completely ugly either. In the photo above there is one jewel that has no function, but it's unclear if this is included in the total jewel count or not.

Here I have removed the oscillating weight, so you can see some of the winding/reversing wheels:



And with the loose wheels removed, I can tip it up and get a good close shot:



The arrow indicated the jewel that has no purpose:



The manual winding was very smooth with the automatic parts removed, so the stiffness is certainly in those parts. The only way to know if it's unusual or a function of the design is to clean and lube it all again, so here it is ready for the cleaning machine:



Once I had it back together and lubricated, it was slightly better. My feeling is this is like trying to get the grinding noise out of an ETA 2824-2. You can improve on a little with a service, but for the most part is the characteristic of the movement.

I fully wound the watch and timed it in 6 positions:



The results were fast overall, but quite good actually. The Delta is a little over 9 seconds in total, but if you take off the last position, which is crown right, the result is very good at something like 3.1 seconds over the first 5 positions:



When watches are adjusted in 5 positions, the crown right position is typically the one not adjusted, and tends to be a flyer. Likely a poising issue.

The watch was slowed slightly to bring the overall rate down.

Note that the balance amplitude in the first two positions (dial down and dial up respectively) is a bit low, but I find this is typical of Asian watches for some reason, so I'm not alarmed by it.

I like the fact that there is no reversing wheel assembly (ratchet and pawl type like in an ETA 2824-2) like in many modern watches, and they use a simple reverser set-up with two wheels on a pivoting base to change directions. Complex reversing wheels in older watches can be quite a pain.

Overall a pretty nice movement.

Cheers, Al
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Joined: February 28th, 2006, 10:40 pm

May 5th, 2011, 12:41 am #6

I am looking forward to strapping that one on again soon.
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Joined: February 28th, 2006, 10:40 pm

May 5th, 2011, 12:47 am #7

same size as the ST5.....send me an email and it's yours....<img alt="happy.gif" src="/images/happy.gif" width="14" height="14"> (took it out of the box, shook it once, and the seconds hand began to tick over!)

Only prob is ..you will have to find a Nissan car with same color to wear it! hahahaha!

"<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/554 ... 3cee_b.jpg">"
Sea-Gull made a variant of the ST6 where they put a larger size rotor on it and cased them in men style watches. Have you ever had the caseback off?
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Joined: June 19th, 2009, 6:51 pm

May 5th, 2011, 1:17 am #8

That info was required Reading Mark and i appreciate you takin the time to post it for me.
Its the 29 Jewel i want so the ST7 looks like the one i want.

Theneilo uk

even though the ST7 is marked 29 jewels, I seem to remember that is has a different number than 29.

It has been guessed that the ST7 dials are nothing more than the ST5 ones with the date window enlarged to accommodate the day as well. Considering the watch was really only a prototype(3000 units hardly constitutes a production run) and had more refining to be done before it was fully marketed.

The ST7 can still be found occasionally but it is only a manual wind version that obviously has had the auto winding mechanism removed or maybe never installed. I feel that these are just units cobbled together from the last remaining spare parts that were laying around.
Even one of these manual winders would make a good addition to any Chinese collection

------------------------------------------

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Joined: February 28th, 2006, 10:40 pm

May 5th, 2011, 1:39 am #9

It runs at 28800 which obviously is a significant difference from the ST5. If Al is up to it I could see if he would do a breakdown comparo between the ST7, the ST5-D auto I have and a ST5 handwind...

That would answer these questions...

Yes, you are right... The ST7 is marked as 28 Zuan (28 jewels), and seeing that Al has already discovered a non functional jewel it appears to be a 27 jewel movement at best and who knows how many jewels are functional should Al do a full service for me at some point...
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Joined: October 25th, 2005, 9:59 pm

May 5th, 2011, 2:14 am #10

Sea-Gull made a variant of the ST6 where they put a larger size rotor on it and cased them in men style watches. Have you ever had the caseback off?
the weekend is out....
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