NSB "N" - Nineteenth Century Tobacco Sets...can you help?

NSB "N" - Nineteenth Century Tobacco Sets...can you help?

Joined: December 29th, 2006, 5:03 am

January 23rd, 2017, 9:50 pm #1

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Last edited by nscards on February 28th, 2017, 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 28th, 2007, 5:05 pm

January 23rd, 2017, 9:58 pm #2

I don't collect this set Chris, but plenty here do. That aside let me be the first to say welcome back. We have missed you.
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Joined: July 11th, 2011, 3:47 pm

January 24th, 2017, 2:02 am #3

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Chris,
It was a pleasure meeting you at "THE NATIONAL" in Atlantic City. Hope to see you in Chicago this year! You bought quite a bit at my table; mostly 30's and 40's and 4 different American Card Catalogues. Take care, Sam Majors (the old fat man with a white beard)
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Joined: June 27th, 2006, 2:51 pm

January 24th, 2017, 2:19 am #4

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
1-3, I'll have to check

4- I don't think that the rows were predominantly all the same cards as you can see from miscuts that sometimes the card above/below or to either side were different or the same. And while 50 is common to many of the series, I'm not sure a great deal of assumptions can be made regarding that. The series of 51 really screws that up, as does the series of 26. But on the baseball side they mention that rows of 13 and 17 were likely.

Some additional nugget should that I can offer while away from my cards:

- Series K is so often cut poorly and rarely straight that I suspect they were hand-cut
- Series F decorations also appear to be hand-cut
- the entire Series E can be found with white backgrounds. That is the only difference
- card #7 can also be found with white background but the wording is different. Why just that card?
- blue-border states are also possibly hand-cut
- Texas seems to be hand-cut or just smaller. Could be an optical illusion
- notice that many of the USA 1886 cards are with or without tiny pink dots
- some cards have blue ink backs
- there are a few cards on a few series that are harder to find than the others. That probably is because of sheets have single vs double prints
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Joined: November 8th, 2006, 2:37 am

January 24th, 2017, 2:39 am #5

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Welcome back Chris!

As for your questions, I collect the set but just casually so sadly have no in depth knowledge of the set.
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Joined: December 29th, 2006, 5:03 am

January 24th, 2017, 2:57 am #6

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Eric -

I was hoping that I'd get a response from you, as it is obvious from review of the Net54 posts that you have a passion for this set. I own only a hundred or so of these cards, but from these plus all of the different internet images that I've looked at over the last three weeks, I can't recall seeing a card with traces of a different adjacent card on either of the sides. Together with the couple of 4-card uncut sections that (I believe) you and another Net54 collector illustrated sometime back, I just assumed that all cards in a row were the same. I also can't readily explain the 5 different numbers that show up on ten cards each of Styles A-C, unless they are meant to identify the sheet on which the cards were printed. As an offer of proof, I offer the observation of the Style B cards. Those depicting the TEN U.S. City and State militias (which seems a little out of place, when you take that the other 30 soldiers are all of a historical nature or depict Native American or other tribal warriors) all bear the 8...3 designation on their front. The TEN Military Decorations and Foreign Coats of Arms all bear 8...5.

Finally, in tracking variations that include different backs within the same 'Style', they always seem to come up divisible by 5 or 10. I do admit that 'Style F' cards are a conundrum, but I suspect that even they weren't all printed at the same time (take a look at the backs of your vatican cards...and I suspect Military Decorations - as I inquired, compared to the others)...something fishy definitely was going on. I'd love to see any evidence that confirms that more than ten different cards were printed on a sheet.

Anybody ever seen two or more DIFFERENT N224 cards attached in a section from a print sheet? One has to exist somewhere...

I look forward to your (as well as others' ) input.


Sam -

Of course I remember you...it's just that I couldn't recall your name (hence "others"), It was very nice meeting you, and I have certainly enjoyed looking over those (just three) old ACCs.

Chris
Last edited by nscards on January 24th, 2017, 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 29th, 2006, 5:03 am

January 24th, 2017, 2:58 am #7

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Todd -

You might not have "depth" of knowledge, but I know that you've got "depth" of cards...if you've got them readily accessible, see if you have any of the above cards, to check on those backs!

Chris
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Joined: June 27th, 2006, 2:51 pm

January 24th, 2017, 3:25 am #8

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Pull these up. Look at the left side. It's a different card.

332092233166

332092233165

Also can see when the gun tips extend beyond the border. Sometimes get a gun tip showing when there is no gun on the main card.

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Joined: December 29th, 2006, 5:03 am

January 24th, 2017, 3:49 am #9

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Eric -
You've got a point there, as it does look like remnants of adjacent cards may differ. Perhaps it was only the later plain background cards (which I seem to remember were the 'Styles' that the two 4-card sections were from) that had rows of the same card. Interesting. Surely someone out there has more information on this.

New questions -
T or F: 'Style A' cards that state "Notice" at the top of their backs (See ebay item #332092233166) were the 1st group that Kinney produced in the set... I say this based on it's uniqueness of this back within the set (only found on these cards) and that it identifies that the company was still hand rolling it's cigarettes at the time (reportedly Kinney was one of the last of the 'big 5' tobacco companies to acquire the rolling machines, and I'd guess that you either wanted to advertise that or you "joined the herd"), but if that's the case then where are cards with print sheet # 1-6 found on them (all of 'Style A' cards have a "7" on them)....other Kinney sets? Does anybody know of any other Kinney sets that have these numbers on their fronts (or identify "Collection No. #", like the 'Style B * C' cards)?

Further support, 'Style A' cards were later reprinted with different backs (the so-called "Type 5" back)...:see item# 132064390774 (also note the adjacent card remnant)
Last edited by nscards on January 24th, 2017, 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 27th, 2006, 2:51 pm

January 24th, 2017, 4:40 am #10

Greetings fellow collectors. It's been quite awhile since I've posted, and I apologize for that. After a self-imposed exile of about 4-5 years necessary to make sure my kids got through high school (and more importantly - would leave our house), I've made it my New Year's resolution to get back into the NSCards arena. I haven't totally been out of it (as I've bought items off the bay here and there), but I just couldn't "flip the switch" back on. On a lark, I visited the National in Atlantic City last fall, and in the one preview evening that I was in attendance, met Marty K, Harry M, Steve S and others - just really great guys and it seemed to rekindle my interest. Given that 2017 marks the tenth anniversary since I published the NSB, I figured I'd start by initiating revisions/additions to get the juices flowing. So, beginning around the 1st of the year, I decided that I'd pick a set (that I knew little about) and do some research... out of the blue, I picked N224.

Obviously, a lot has been written about the Kinney "Military Series" (try searching this site -- the amount of info is massive), but I figured there had to be an angle more than just which cards were rare and limited completion, etc., etc. After 3 weeks of investigation, this is these are the three questions that I have for the esteemed collectors in our midst (NOTE: none of this information should influence value, card availability, etc.). It's my way of trying to substantiate a theory about the order in which certain "styles" were printed and print sheet groupings...along the lines of my prior "G-Men" article in the Wrapper, etc.

Questions:
1) Is the BACK of Style M State Seals 'plain background' cards (i.e. without the blue border - ABC# 268, 275, 277, 279 & 283) the same as those with the blue border? Here is what the back of a blue border variation looks like -


2) Are the BACKS of the two variations of the Style F Military Decorations (ABC# 606-608) the same? Can anyone confirm that a white background variation exists for #605 or 609?..sorry I do not have examples of these to illustrate, but Eric B previous post of the fronts on this site can be searched.

3) Style D cards have one of two different backs. Can anyone confirm have the same card with both backs? Can someone confirm what the last line of the advertising found on the backs of card #3, 480 and 481 begins with (i.e. is it "and flags..." or "cluded as...")? Here are examples of the two different backs -



4) Cards were printed in rows of the same card, as evidenced by some of the uncut sections that have surfaced and the remnants that can be found along card borders...but can anyone confirm how many different cards (i.e. columns) were found on the print sheet? Based on the numbers found on the fronts of 'Styles A-C', I'm guessing that there were ten rows (i.e. ten different cards), but since some of the styles have totals that are not directly divisible by ten, then some cards must have been added to the print sheet....perhaps accounting for the different variations?

Thanks for the input...I'll gladly share what I'm thinking when I've confirmed my suspicions. By the way, if anybody has already made a study of this, please do not hesitate to alert, as I have no desire to "reinvent the wheel".

Chris Watson
Generally, if you can tell there is a card coming over from the side, it's he same card 80% of the time. Maybe that fits in with your theory of 5s. It's easiest to tell on the colored ones since the white bordered cards can be miscue badly without telling what is next to it.

I could have sworn that miscuts were more common. Maybe I have a bunch.

These are pretty cool. Took only a few minutes to find. Who knew the Man-of-Wars Man for Sweden and Spain would be next to each other on the sheet. And there is a different card to the left.






You might be able to figure out what this card is next to

301942578219

Gun peeking up at the bottom?

311161962759

Looks like the same card next to it

311161959250
Last edited by egbeachley on January 24th, 2017, 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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