Question About 2 Churches Of Christ (Nashville and Africa)

Question About 2 Churches Of Christ (Nashville and Africa)

Sonny
Sonny

October 22nd, 2010, 9:54 pm #1

BELOW ARE 2 CHURCHES WE MAY NEED TO ADD TO THE FOUL AND INFAMOUS "WALL OF SHAME".

Since a few brothers on this site have about as much intolerance and disdain for praise teams as they do IM, I wonder if you believe the Inner-City Church of Christ in Nashville is in right standing with God (or is a church of shame)? They do not have instruments, but do have a praise team of 4 men who stand with microphones on stage each Sunday morning.

Also, there is a congregation in Zambia that allows all the children (and just the children) to sing "Jesus Loves Me" and other songs in front of the congregation as part of Sunday worship. Is this acceptable or unacceptable worship?

If your answer is negative, you might want to look into that one and take concerned members globally.

-Sonny
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 23rd, 2010, 1:46 am #2

Get help.

You don't know the meaning of ekklesia or synagogue. You can do anything honest or moral outside of the congregation and most churches let little children sing publically. We worry about GROWD UP MEN who want to do that.

When we were children we acted like children but when we became MEN we put asside things like singing, clapping, dancing and wearing funny hats in public: someone might call the gender Police.

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
......All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
......baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
......and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now Jesus DID NOT command us to TEACH SINGING AND DANCING. He is the Master and we are the DISCIPLE. Master teaches, disciples sit down and shut up.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 23rd, 2010, 3:06 am #3

BELOW ARE 2 CHURCHES WE MAY NEED TO ADD TO THE FOUL AND INFAMOUS "WALL OF SHAME".

Since a few brothers on this site have about as much intolerance and disdain for praise teams as they do IM, I wonder if you believe the Inner-City Church of Christ in Nashville is in right standing with God (or is a church of shame)? They do not have instruments, but do have a praise team of 4 men who stand with microphones on stage each Sunday morning.

Also, there is a congregation in Zambia that allows all the children (and just the children) to sing "Jesus Loves Me" and other songs in front of the congregation as part of Sunday worship. Is this acceptable or unacceptable worship?

If your answer is negative, you might want to look into that one and take concerned members globally.

-Sonny
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times](1) Is there one leading singing already but is incapable without the help of 4-men "Praise Team"?

(2) Do the 4 men use the microphones because it is such a large crowd that they cannot be heard? Or...

(3) Do the 4 men use the microphones so that they can perform better? And...

(4) Do the 4 men have to be on stage so that their performance can be seen and heard?

(5) Do the 4 men do a good job of imitating the performers in Charismatic/Pentecostal Churches -- the way they hold their microphones with their antics and movements on stage, etc.?

(6) Do the 4 men have the natural ability to induce or stimulate the crowd to rhythmically clap while singing a very upbeat "praise" song?

(7) Do the 4 men (since instruments are "forbidden") do a good job simulating or emulating the sounds [or noises] of musical instruments?

(8) Do the 4 men sit down and allow the congregation to sing reverently when it sings "Holy, Holy, Holy" or "Take Time to Be Holy" or [wait ... they sing only happy, jolly "praise songs"]?

(9) Performance ... performance ... performance is the name of the game!!![/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 23rd, 2010, 3:30 am #4

Get help.

You don't know the meaning of ekklesia or synagogue. You can do anything honest or moral outside of the congregation and most churches let little children sing publically. We worry about GROWD UP MEN who want to do that.

When we were children we acted like children but when we became MEN we put asside things like singing, clapping, dancing and wearing funny hats in public: someone might call the gender Police.

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
......All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
......baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
......and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now Jesus DID NOT command us to TEACH SINGING AND DANCING. He is the Master and we are the DISCIPLE. Master teaches, disciples sit down and shut up.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Right on, Ken.

Some adults have not outgrown certain childish behavioral patterns. Some adults have not done childish actions in a while but have reverted to those actions for whatever reason -- to be in vogue, I suppose.

Know what? "Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 19:14; Luke 18:16).

I do not believe that little children would cause the church to divide.[/color]
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Anonymous
Anonymous

October 23rd, 2010, 6:02 am #5

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times](1) Is there one leading singing already but is incapable without the help of 4-men "Praise Team"?

(2) Do the 4 men use the microphones because it is such a large crowd that they cannot be heard? Or...

(3) Do the 4 men use the microphones so that they can perform better? And...

(4) Do the 4 men have to be on stage so that their performance can be seen and heard?

(5) Do the 4 men do a good job of imitating the performers in Charismatic/Pentecostal Churches -- the way they hold their microphones with their antics and movements on stage, etc.?

(6) Do the 4 men have the natural ability to induce or stimulate the crowd to rhythmically clap while singing a very upbeat "praise" song?

(7) Do the 4 men (since instruments are "forbidden") do a good job simulating or emulating the sounds [or noises] of musical instruments?

(8) Do the 4 men sit down and allow the congregation to sing reverently when it sings "Holy, Holy, Holy" or "Take Time to Be Holy" or [wait ... they sing only happy, jolly "praise songs"]?

(9) Performance ... performance ... performance is the name of the game!!![/color]
Brother Cruz,

Are you communicating or suggesting through these questions that perhaps praise teams are not always bad? If so, I am thrilled.

-Sonny
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AM
AM

October 23rd, 2010, 5:13 pm #6

Praise teams are good for those congregations who choose not to worship God the the way Jesus worshiped God. Why are those that are thrilled about what is new to them in worship, unable or reluctant to point out how it was with Jesus?
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Sonny
Sonny

October 23rd, 2010, 8:45 pm #7

If this site has as much disdain and intolerance for PT, then be consistent and add churches with them to "The Wall", starting with the Inner-City C of C in Nashville. And where is children singing in front by themselves authorized by Jesus in Scripture? Thus, we must label this a "chorus" that is a "denominational practice", so the church in Zambia needs to be added to "The Wall".

And as stated on the other post/thread, this is only the beginning if we want to be serious and consistent about Romans 16:17 (if division is based on anything DIFFERENT or for which Scripture is SILENT). Add all those churches that go to Winterfest (actually brings people together, like the Inner-City Church), and all the churches that ever clap their hands, use the NIV, have a children's worship, those that have VBS with songs, skits and puppets, etc. etc. etc.

Let's at least have some unity and consistency about who we mark and who gets their name on "The Wall".

-Sonny
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 23rd, 2010, 9:53 pm #8

Brother Cruz,

Are you communicating or suggesting through these questions that perhaps praise teams are not always bad? If so, I am thrilled.

-Sonny
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Sonny,

You might say "that perhaps 'praise teams' are not always bad." But let me qualify and, hopefully, you will see why.

The expression "Praise Team" is creepy in a spiritual sense when it is identified as a group of musicians that sets itself apart from the congregation. Whether or not the elite club of singers is on stage or grouped together occupying the first two front rows, when they hold those individual microphones, they become "suspects." They are bound to PERFORM.

But wait. I have heard the "claim" that the elite [semi-professional] singers have the duty or responsibility to teach new [Charismatic campfire] "praise" songs to the "congregation." Let's do a little math here. If on the average the "Worship Leader" and his/her "Praise Team" sing 11 "praise" songs per week's assembly, that amounts to over 500 new songs to learn per year. That's staggering.

Do the money-making, contemporary, pop-rock "Christian" musical artists [Michael Smith, Amy Grant, Chris Tomlin, Charlie Peacock, et al] popularize that many "I Worship You, Lord" [clappy-clappy] songs in a year? OK, maybe, that's an exaggeration.

Let me say it in another way. Does the "congregation" really need the Praise Team [the CHOIR] to teach 11 new songs at every gathering? If not, then, why do the Praise Team members still show up and let their presence known, after the congregation has learned the "new" songs?

Why are the "Worship Leader" and his musicians of the post-modern age so forgetful of times in the past when the singing leader did not need the CHOIR to co-lead in the singing of a new hymn?

Oh, don't forget that the Praise Team members, both men and WOMEN, are co-worship leaders. So, in essence, now there are WOMEN worship leaders.

Well, back to the issue "that perhaps praise teams are not always bad." Praise Teams are not bad ... contingent on the following:[/color]
  • Get the church money refunded--those individual microphones can be pretty expensive, especially when the elite team has 8 or 16 or 24 or more men and WOMEN members. Or...
    </li>
  • Donate the microphones to Charismatic/Pentecostal groups to help intensify the noise of their drums, trumpets, etc.
    </li>
  • The elite singers should not be on stage at any time so that the congregation does not see them do their childish actions and whatever antics.
    </li>
  • The elite singers should not be on stage at any time so that they can not be seen to encourage or initiate rhythmic clapping [rehearsed "joy"].
    </li>
  • The elite singers do not have to occupy the first two front rows with their microphones -- the congregation will see and know when the team is performance-ready.
    </li>
  • There are more conditions...

    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Notice the word "PERFORMANCE." Such an ugly word, something God detests, when He is to be worshiped with reverence and awe.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 23rd, 2010, 10:28 pm #9

BELOW ARE 2 CHURCHES WE MAY NEED TO ADD TO THE FOUL AND INFAMOUS "WALL OF SHAME".

Since a few brothers on this site have about as much intolerance and disdain for praise teams as they do IM, I wonder if you believe the Inner-City Church of Christ in Nashville is in right standing with God (or is a church of shame)? They do not have instruments, but do have a praise team of 4 men who stand with microphones on stage each Sunday morning.

Also, there is a congregation in Zambia that allows all the children (and just the children) to sing "Jesus Loves Me" and other songs in front of the congregation as part of Sunday worship. Is this acceptable or unacceptable worship?

If your answer is negative, you might want to look into that one and take concerned members globally.

-Sonny
Ancient scholars understood the TWO THREADS in the Old Testament. They understood the Mount Sinai Event.

I have no reason to doubt that only about 3 members of the Church of Christ understand it.
Because of musical idolatry God "turned them over to worship the starry hosts." Therefore when people like Rick Atchley IMPOSE "worship teams" (a blasphemy) and then instruments they run SPECIFICIALLY to the patternism of the worship of the starry hosts. That is prophetic: neither he nor any of the hireling-changelings had anything to do with it.

I am reviewing Jay Quin who is on the attack against those who WILL not use instruments. This is wholly irrational.

http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html

I have reviewed part two of the New Wineskins magazine: maybe we need a thread.
Almost without exception the "punch line" is not quoted and most of them implicate the emasculated priests of the Mother Goddess. Revelation 17-18 could never in recorded history be so literally fulfilled as the frontal assault of the NACC who has found a tiny few "dupes" they can ride like "beasts." Beast in Revelation doesn't speak of an animal but of "a new style singing and drama."

Gender compromised "praise singers" are the world's OLDEST profession. Emotionally or sexually abnormal men were always believed to be Enthus-O-Mania: only the MAD were ever used in this prophetic-priestly role.

http://www.piney.com/MuEncomiast.html

MESOPOTAMIAN CULT
Repeated in Jerusalem at the temple

In the cultic practices, humans fulfilled their destiny: to take care of the gods' material needs. They therefore provided the gods with houses (the temples) that were richly supplied with lands, which people cultivated for them. In the temple the god was present in--but not bounded by--a statue made of precious wood overlaid with gold. For this statue the temple kitchen staff prepared daily meals from produce grown or raised on the temple's fields, in its orchards, in its sheepfolds, cattle pens, and game preserves, brought in by its fishermen, or delivered by farmers owing it as a temple tax. The statue was also clad in costly raiment, bathed, and escorted to bed in the bedchamber of the god, often on top of the temple tower, or ziggurat.

To see to all of this the god had priests trained as cooks, bakers, waiters, and bathers, or as encomiasts (singers of praise) and musicians

to make the god's meals festive, or as elegists to soothe him in times of stress and grief. Diversions from the daily routine were the great monthly festivals and also a number of special occasions.


Both the tithe and the Sabbath WORSHIP are of Babylon: God gave the sabbath to REST where the synagogue was held in each local area.

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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

October 23rd, 2010, 11:13 pm #10

If this site has as much disdain and intolerance for PT, then be consistent and add churches with them to "The Wall", starting with the Inner-City C of C in Nashville. And where is children singing in front by themselves authorized by Jesus in Scripture? Thus, we must label this a "chorus" that is a "denominational practice", so the church in Zambia needs to be added to "The Wall".

And as stated on the other post/thread, this is only the beginning if we want to be serious and consistent about Romans 16:17 (if division is based on anything DIFFERENT or for which Scripture is SILENT). Add all those churches that go to Winterfest (actually brings people together, like the Inner-City Church), and all the churches that ever clap their hands, use the NIV, have a children's worship, those that have VBS with songs, skits and puppets, etc. etc. etc.

Let's at least have some unity and consistency about who we mark and who gets their name on "The Wall".

-Sonny
I have the feeling that Sonny is obsessed with the "Wall of Shame"; it's getting under his skin.
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