Necessary Inference ,Acts 20:7, & Acts 18:8

Necessary Inference ,Acts 20:7, & Acts 18:8

Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:58 pm

February 28th, 2006, 12:19 am #1

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 28th, 2006, 6:08 am #2

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Dear Poster,

Would you do us a favor by identifying yourself, please? I am trying to determine whether or not you truly represent what the PBL church teaches. You may … but I can’t know that for sure. Besides, I know that you would not want to misrepresent a group of people who might not be in agreement with you.

I have taken a quick view of the PBL website. I might be wrong in my assumption, but it appears that the PBL congregation is conservative. For example, in an article written by Maxie B. Boren, “WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY CRAVING ENTERTAINMENT,” the author states:
  • <font color=black>We live in a world gone mad over sensationalism. … Believe it or not, similar attempts to get attention and draw crowds have also invaded the religious world. … Many religionists orchestrate rather extravagant and entertaining productions in their church buildings and over “evangelical” television, designed to compete with Hollywood. Nothing much surprises us anymore. Over TV, people are apt to view most anything, from fanatical snake handlers to the now defunct productions of Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggert, to the more sophisticated and pompous presentations of Robert Schuler in his Crystal Cathedral, or a Papal mass at “St. Peter’s basilica in Rome.” Indeed, “the beat goes on.”

    The haunting question is, has the trend toward “being entertaining” with a smidgen of “sensationalism” here and there made any inroads into the Lord’s church? As regretful as it is, one would have to answer in the affirmative. Many brethren have been affected to a great extent by what they observe others doing. If not by the secular culture, surely so by various religious groups capitalizing on the “entertain us” syndrome. Many of our brethren are so anxious for big numbers and acceptance by religious neighbors, that they are more motivated to imitate what some fast-growing Community Church has done and is doing, than they are in adhering to New Testament teaching. The tendency to want to entertain and draw crowds has been clearly observed in some quarters of the brotherhood. One illustration of this is in “vocal band” concerts at “youth rallies” and either during or following worship assemblies. That was “the fad” for a while and is still being done, but it has now graduated to concerts with “contemporary ‘Christian’ music bands” with their musical instruments. Mark my word, this is but a prelude to the re-introduction of instrumental music into the weekly worship assembly among these brethren. It may take a few years, but I am most fearful it is coming to that. To many, it doesn’t matter that the use of instrumental music is not authorized in the New Testament; it is a matter of “crowds and entertainment.” That is what takes precedence. Their mindset is clear: “be pragmatic…entertainment works...it brings the people in…we’re in an ever-changing world and we’ve got to change with it…we’ve got to go with what works!”</font>
( The above quote is for a poster with a generic ID “Concerned Christian” [yeah, right] and his disciples.)

Sounds like a conservative congregation to me! Notice “adhering to New Testament teaching.”

On that basis, again I assume that the congregation, or at least its leadership—if knowledgeable of how valuable CENI is—would find CENI more favorable than otherwise in proving scriptural authority over matters that we have questions or concerns about.

(For readers who need to know this: CENI is a guideline that helps us determine that there is scriptural authority: [C] if there is a specific command and/or [E] if there is an example and/or [NI] by necessary inference.)

I gather from your response to this brother in Christ that you are associating “necessary inferences” with assumptions. I disagree. I believe that inferences in and of themselves can be assumptive conclusions. But with the word “necessary” qualifying the word “inference,” as in “necessary inference,” the conclusion should no longer be in question.

I think that in order for this discussion to be productive and beneficial, it would be a good start if you let the readers know what you really think the segment in:
  • Acts 20—“[6] And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight….”
Please notice the definite article “the” and the significance of the purpose “when” the disciples came together. What is the breaking of bread to you when the disciples gathered? Hopefully, you will give us a better insight of what you personally think of the verse.

Thank you,

Donnie</font>
Quote
Like
Share

Amazed
Amazed

February 28th, 2006, 2:56 pm #3

This hermeneutic is the whole reason this website and division in churches exists. I know this will shock you, but I agree with the person who posted this. CENI is irresponsible, as it relies heavily on men and their opinions. You can call it what you want, but at the end of the day, that's what it is. Someone's opinion. This is evidenced by all the stupid fighting it has caused.

I'm interested to see how this discussion goes.
Quote
Share

Ken
Ken

February 28th, 2006, 4:13 pm #4

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Dear Poster,

Would you do us a favor by identifying yourself, please? I am trying to determine whether or not you truly represent what the PBL church teaches. You may … but I can’t know that for sure. Besides, I know that you would not want to misrepresent a group of people who might not be in agreement with you.

I have taken a quick view of the PBL website. I might be wrong in my assumption, but it appears that the PBL congregation is conservative. For example, in an article written by Maxie B. Boren, “WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY CRAVING ENTERTAINMENT,” the author states:
  • <font color=black>We live in a world gone mad over sensationalism. … Believe it or not, similar attempts to get attention and draw crowds have also invaded the religious world. … Many religionists orchestrate rather extravagant and entertaining productions in their church buildings and over “evangelical” television, designed to compete with Hollywood. Nothing much surprises us anymore. Over TV, people are apt to view most anything, from fanatical snake handlers to the now defunct productions of Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggert, to the more sophisticated and pompous presentations of Robert Schuler in his Crystal Cathedral, or a Papal mass at “St. Peter’s basilica in Rome.” Indeed, “the beat goes on.”

    The haunting question is, has the trend toward “being entertaining” with a smidgen of “sensationalism” here and there made any inroads into the Lord’s church? As regretful as it is, one would have to answer in the affirmative. Many brethren have been affected to a great extent by what they observe others doing. If not by the secular culture, surely so by various religious groups capitalizing on the “entertain us” syndrome. Many of our brethren are so anxious for big numbers and acceptance by religious neighbors, that they are more motivated to imitate what some fast-growing Community Church has done and is doing, than they are in adhering to New Testament teaching. The tendency to want to entertain and draw crowds has been clearly observed in some quarters of the brotherhood. One illustration of this is in “vocal band” concerts at “youth rallies” and either during or following worship assemblies. That was “the fad” for a while and is still being done, but it has now graduated to concerts with “contemporary ‘Christian’ music bands” with their musical instruments. Mark my word, this is but a prelude to the re-introduction of instrumental music into the weekly worship assembly among these brethren. It may take a few years, but I am most fearful it is coming to that. To many, it doesn’t matter that the use of instrumental music is not authorized in the New Testament; it is a matter of “crowds and entertainment.” That is what takes precedence. Their mindset is clear: “be pragmatic…entertainment works...it brings the people in…we’re in an ever-changing world and we’ve got to change with it…we’ve got to go with what works!”</font>
( The above quote is for a poster with a generic ID “Concerned Christian” [yeah, right] and his disciples.)

Sounds like a conservative congregation to me! Notice “adhering to New Testament teaching.”

On that basis, again I assume that the congregation, or at least its leadership—if knowledgeable of how valuable CENI is—would find CENI more favorable than otherwise in proving scriptural authority over matters that we have questions or concerns about.

(For readers who need to know this: CENI is a guideline that helps us determine that there is scriptural authority: [C] if there is a specific command and/or [E] if there is an example and/or [NI] by necessary inference.)

I gather from your response to this brother in Christ that you are associating “necessary inferences” with assumptions. I disagree. I believe that inferences in and of themselves can be assumptive conclusions. But with the word “necessary” qualifying the word “inference,” as in “necessary inference,” the conclusion should no longer be in question.

I think that in order for this discussion to be productive and beneficial, it would be a good start if you let the readers know what you really think the segment in:
  • Acts 20—“[6] And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight….”
Please notice the definite article “the” and the significance of the purpose “when” the disciples came together. What is the breaking of bread to you when the disciples gathered? Hopefully, you will give us a better insight of what you personally think of the verse.

Thank you,

Donnie</font>
Of course Donnie knows that it is a long way from the West Coast to:

Chantilly, Virginia, United States.

He knows that break bread means to eat in drink in a UPPER room or a LOWER room and not just in Troas with Paul present.

Hope God has a juvenile section!
Quote
Share

Joined: September 18th, 2005, 4:26 am

March 1st, 2006, 5:00 am #5

"Hope God has a juvenile section!"

Re:

I do believe He does!

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 18:3.
Quote
Like
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

March 3rd, 2006, 10:35 am #6

What Is a “Necessary Inference”?
by Wayne Jackson
Christian Courier: Questions
Tuesday, February 11, 2003


Exactly what is a “necessary inference”? Is this form of reasoning a solid means of arriving at biblical truth? Many people do not think so. They contend that it is a slippery form of drawing rational conclusions. But this is not the case, as Wayne Jackson demonstrates in this article.

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>“I frequently hear ministers talk about a ‘necessary inference’ in connection with the issue of Bible authority. What is a ‘necessary inference,’ and is this a legitimate method of establishing scriptural authority?”

The word “inference” derives from Latin roots that signify “to gather in.” In logic (the science of critical thinking), it suggests the idea of gathering in data from various sources, and then drawing such deductions as are demanded by the evidence.

There are two kinds of inferences. “Reasonable” inferences suggest a likely possibility. For example, if one hears thunder and sees lightning, he may reasonably infer that it will rain shortly. And, based upon that inference, he may wish to take his umbrella when he leaves his house.

On the other hand, if an “inference” is characterized as “necessary,” this means that the conclusion drawn from the facts is irresistible. If there is snow covering the countryside in the morning, one may necessarily conclude that the temperature was below 32 degrees during the night.

Inference has fallen on hard times in the church these days. Those who wish to bring the Lord’s church into conformity with denominational practices suggest that nothing can be made a test of fellowship that is based upon inference. “Inference” restricts these “free spirits” to more rigidity than they can tolerate.

But inference is a perfectly legitimate means of obtaining truth.

There is an example related to Solomon’s dedication of the temple that enables the careful Bible student to derive some information that he could not know but for inference. Look at the following data.

At the dedication of the temple, Solomon prayed a wonderful prayer soliciting Jehovah’s blessings upon the sacred house. An inspired writer subsequently notes that “Jehovah appeared to Solomon by night” in response to the petition (2 Chron. 7:12). The text does not mention precisely how the Lord “appeared.” That leaves the episode clouded in mystery, since there were various ways by which deity could “appear” to men. Other passages, however, allow us to arrive at the full truth relative to this incident.

In a parallel record, a sacred writer says that Jehovah “appeared” to Solomon “as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon” (1 Kg. 9:2). Well, how was that? This text does not specify. In yet another related passage, though, the Scriptures reveal the following: “In Gibeon Jehovah appeared to Solomon in a dream by night” (1 Kgs. 3:5). Putting the related information together, therefore, one reasons:

<ol>[*]If God appeared to Solomon in Jerusalem as he did in Gibeon.

[*]And he appeared to the king in Gibeon “in a dream.”

[*]Then it necessarily follows, then, that the Lord’s appearance to Solomon in Jerusalem was in a dream.

[/list]Let me cite a couple of examples that help focus upon crucial matters pertaining to Christian practice.

<ol>[*]Since the New Testament teaches that valid baptism requires both belief and repentance (Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38), and inasmuch as babies can not believe, nor do they need to repent (seeing they have no sin), it follows necessarily that infants are not amenable to baptism. The logical use of necessary inference eliminates the sectarian practice of “infant baptism.”

[*]The first century church of Christ met each Lord’s day for worship. This is established by the phrase “first day of every week,” as reflected in the Greek text of 1 Corinthians 16:2 (as most of the modern translations reveal; see RSV, NASB, NIV, ESV). The preposition kata in the original text definitely means “every.” (See: Danker, F.W., et al., Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Chicago: University of Chicago, 2000, p. 512).

Additionally, the New Testament record establishes the fact that the main purpose of the Sunday meeting was to celebrate the Lord’s supper. That is established by the infinitive phrase of purpose in Acts 20:7; the disciples were brought together “to break bread.”

Since we know that the Christians met each Lord’s day. And inasmuch as it is clear that the primary purpose of their gathering was to observe the sacred communion. It necessarily follows that the early church, under the supervision of the inspired apostles, observed the Lord’s supper every Sunday. Churches today, therefore, who seek to be biblical in their worship, will emulate the apostolic practice. For further study of this matter, see the author’s commentary, The Acts of the Apostles – from Jerusalem to Rome.

[/list]The logical concept of “necessary inference” is a perfectly legitimate reasoning device. We use it most every day in common procedures, and it is no less valuable in arriving at scriptural conclusions.

________________________</font>

Source: http://www.christiancourier.com/questions/necessaryInferenceQuestion.htm
Quote
Share

Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:58 pm

April 30th, 2006, 5:35 am #7

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Dear Poster,

Would you do us a favor by identifying yourself, please? I am trying to determine whether or not you truly represent what the PBL church teaches. You may … but I can’t know that for sure. Besides, I know that you would not want to misrepresent a group of people who might not be in agreement with you.

I have taken a quick view of the PBL website. I might be wrong in my assumption, but it appears that the PBL congregation is conservative. For example, in an article written by Maxie B. Boren, “WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY CRAVING ENTERTAINMENT,” the author states:
  • <font color=black>We live in a world gone mad over sensationalism. … Believe it or not, similar attempts to get attention and draw crowds have also invaded the religious world. … Many religionists orchestrate rather extravagant and entertaining productions in their church buildings and over “evangelical” television, designed to compete with Hollywood. Nothing much surprises us anymore. Over TV, people are apt to view most anything, from fanatical snake handlers to the now defunct productions of Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggert, to the more sophisticated and pompous presentations of Robert Schuler in his Crystal Cathedral, or a Papal mass at “St. Peter’s basilica in Rome.” Indeed, “the beat goes on.”

    The haunting question is, has the trend toward “being entertaining” with a smidgen of “sensationalism” here and there made any inroads into the Lord’s church? As regretful as it is, one would have to answer in the affirmative. Many brethren have been affected to a great extent by what they observe others doing. If not by the secular culture, surely so by various religious groups capitalizing on the “entertain us” syndrome. Many of our brethren are so anxious for big numbers and acceptance by religious neighbors, that they are more motivated to imitate what some fast-growing Community Church has done and is doing, than they are in adhering to New Testament teaching. The tendency to want to entertain and draw crowds has been clearly observed in some quarters of the brotherhood. One illustration of this is in “vocal band” concerts at “youth rallies” and either during or following worship assemblies. That was “the fad” for a while and is still being done, but it has now graduated to concerts with “contemporary ‘Christian’ music bands” with their musical instruments. Mark my word, this is but a prelude to the re-introduction of instrumental music into the weekly worship assembly among these brethren. It may take a few years, but I am most fearful it is coming to that. To many, it doesn’t matter that the use of instrumental music is not authorized in the New Testament; it is a matter of “crowds and entertainment.” That is what takes precedence. Their mindset is clear: “be pragmatic…entertainment works...it brings the people in…we’re in an ever-changing world and we’ve got to change with it…we’ve got to go with what works!”</font>
( The above quote is for a poster with a generic ID “Concerned Christian” [yeah, right] and his disciples.)

Sounds like a conservative congregation to me! Notice “adhering to New Testament teaching.”

On that basis, again I assume that the congregation, or at least its leadership—if knowledgeable of how valuable CENI is—would find CENI more favorable than otherwise in proving scriptural authority over matters that we have questions or concerns about.

(For readers who need to know this: CENI is a guideline that helps us determine that there is scriptural authority: [C] if there is a specific command and/or [E] if there is an example and/or [NI] by necessary inference.)

I gather from your response to this brother in Christ that you are associating “necessary inferences” with assumptions. I disagree. I believe that inferences in and of themselves can be assumptive conclusions. But with the word “necessary” qualifying the word “inference,” as in “necessary inference,” the conclusion should no longer be in question.

I think that in order for this discussion to be productive and beneficial, it would be a good start if you let the readers know what you really think the segment in:
  • Acts 20—“[6] And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight….”
Please notice the definite article “the” and the significance of the purpose “when” the disciples came together. What is the breaking of bread to you when the disciples gathered? Hopefully, you will give us a better insight of what you personally think of the verse.

Thank you,

Donnie</font>
Hi&nbsp;Donnie,

First, I want to thank you for doing a good job on this website and for the hard work that you do.

My name is Tom, I do not represent Palm Beach Lakes Church of Christ and the elders and preachers at Palm Beach Lakes Church of Christ are not in agreement with me. I am sorry about the screen name. My mind went blank at the time and I just could not think of a screen name at the time.&nbsp; To let you know where I am coming from. I am coming from the other side of the Church of Christ. This is the concerned members website and I am a concerned member. I am concerned member. I am concerned about the legalistic patternism in&nbsp;PBLCOC because "legalism kills.&nbsp;I am one of Al Maxey's Reflections readers and I agree with Brother Maxey about 99% of the time. If you are familar with Al Maxey's work, then you know where I am coming from. I should not be telling you this but as a matter of fact, the elders disfellowshiped me on Dec 1, 2005 for what they called "sowing discord and being a false teacher". I am not sure if I sure go into more detail, but one thing, I do miss the people there. I had some good friends there. I am also a member of the ex-church of christ board. Now I am sure that 95% of&nbsp;this website readers will not like me.

The main thing about interpreting the Bible is common sense. CENI, is a part, a small part, of the common sense way of interpreting the Bible. Readers, if Donnie will let me, I might do an detailed study of CENI and I could share&nbsp;my findings&nbsp;with you

Donnie, I am not at all interested in arguing or debating anybody right now. I have done that way too much in the past and I am tired of it. I tend to be a smart ______ (way too much)(I do not know of a good nice term to describe it at this time, sorry) and I need to get away from that.

Brother Maxey did a reflections article on "breaking bread" if you are interested in which I assume that you not interested in reading Brother Maxey's work. That is why I did not cut and paste it here. Acts 20:7 states the term "breaking bread". I have no idea if that is talking about the "Lords' supper" or a fellowship meal. I think they just "broke bread" what ever that means.

Donnie, I also want to thank you for your reply and I am sorry it took me a long time to get back to it. Donnie, I am not for sure if you are the moderator or not, but if you are, then you&nbsp;doing a good job. Thank you for that.

Readers, The Bible tells us that&nbsp;knowledge without love is nothing (this time you tell me where to find it.) Let everyone of us remember that. I tend to have a hard time of remembering that but I am trying to change that.

It is way past my bedtime so I will end it now. Have a great day.&nbsp;&nbsp;Thank you for taking the time to read this.&nbsp;&nbsp;Donnie, thank you for your question.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Quote
Like
Share