Hohenwald Church of Christ, birds of a feather! Jay Guin Links

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 11th, 2004, 5:26 pm #41

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
For those who have converted to WALKING IN THE STEPS of Rubel Shelly you should note that he is on the women's worship leader (etc) subject. Because they have PREACHED this stuff before, their claim that the ELDERS by a minority request want it preached again rings hollow. OF COURSE, "we do not intend to make changes" but what COULD be the motive to PREACH the same FALSE DOGMA if not to PROMOTE female leadership. From earlier articles, Rubel wants to EXEMPT the preaching role and the elders role but???

He has used all of the Old Testament women as PROOF and we have shown that Rubel takes his own advice and "takes liberties" by making Miriam a WORSHIP LEADER OVER MEN when God makes her a Leper and uses her as an EXAMPLE of claiming rights He gave only to the male priests.

Sure, when you fuzz up the brains with "musical worship" and "charismatic preaching" you can just slide over the false claims without any proof and the "fools loving to be fooled will just drink it up like new wine."

We will begin a look at TODAY'S SERMON TODAY by TESTING whether MIRAM was a Worship leader with clanging and gonging and dancing as John and Rubel claim.

http://www.piney.com/RS.Women.1.11.04.html

In looking at the other PROOF TEXTS we will see that God condemns utterly what Shelly York preach.

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 11th, 2004, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 12th, 2004, 7:28 pm #42

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
The Catholic Encyclopedia under "Candles" denies that she got music from the Bible by confessing that she got it from the pagans:

"We need not shrink from admitting that candles, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and in the RITES paid to the DEAD.
...But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendour of religious ceremonial.

..We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like music, lights, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments, etc.
....were not identified with any IDOLATROUS CULT in particular;
they were common to almost ALL CULTS.
......They are, in fact, part of the natural language of mystical expression, and such things belong quite as much to SECULAR ceremonial as they do to religion.

Music and BABBLING was an ENCHANTMENT: the lower classes believed that while sacifices they must ATTRACT the "good gods" and "DRIVE AWAY" the "evil spirits" or demons. As the prayed for KING LIKE THE NATIONS the worship of the Monarchy was the WORSHIP like the nations. The "music" which was never so obscene as to enter into the Holy Places as a type of church of Christ was enchantment or EXORCISM. Job asks:

.."Surely the serpent will bite without enchantment; and a BABBLER is no better. Ec.10:11

The "serpent" was not a snake but a Musical Enchanter. While Eve took him to her breast because he QUESTIONED God's Word, He BIT or STUNG her so that we know that "Cain was of that wicked one." Serpent is:

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: Ge.3:2

Nachash (h5172) naw-khash'; a prim. root; prop. to hiss, i. e. whisper a (magic) spell; gen. to prognosticate: - * certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) * enchantment, learn by experience, indeed, diligently observe.

Nachash (h5173) nakh'-ash; from 5172; an incantation or augury: - enchantment.

Nechuwshah (h5154) nekh-oo-shaw'; or nechushah nekh-oo-shaw'; fem. of 5153; copper: - brass, steel. Comp. 5175

Enchantment is SPEAKING IN TONGUES

Lachash (h3908) lakh'-ash; from 3907; prop. a whisper, i. e. by impl. (in a good sense) a private prayer, (in a bad one) an incantation; concr. an amulet: - charmed, earring, enchantment, orator, prayer.

Baal (h1167) bah'-al; from 1166; a master; hence a husband, or (fig.) owner (often used with another noun in modifications of this latter sense): - / ARCHER, / BABBLER, / bird, captain, chief man, / confederate, / have to do, / dreamer, those to whom it is due, / furious, those that are given to it, great, / hairy, he that hath it, have, / horseman, husband, lord, man, / married, master, person, / sworn, they of.

BABBLER IS ALSO

Lashown (h3956) law-shone'; or lashon law-shone'; also (in plur.) fem. lashonah lesh-o-naw'; from 3960; the tongue (of man or anmals), used lit. (as the instrument of licking, eating, of speech), and fig. (speech, an ingot, a FORK of FLAME, a cove or water): - / babbler, bay, / evil speaker, language, talker, tongue, wedge

The Judas Bag or Box and the Musical Triumph Over Connection

It is a little-known mystery that the Judas bag (he was a THIEF) was for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." Judas would be classed along with the clergy who "piped" for Jesus to frighten or panic Him into rising up like a warrior to go into battle against the Romans. Or they would force Him to dance the Dionysos, choral dance which would mark Him as effeminate. Science now knows that music creates the "fight or flight" syndrome and both have a sexual relationship. It didn't work of Jesus.

"But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, Matt 11:16
.."And saying, We have PIPED unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. Matt 11:17

This Judas bag is from the Greek:

Glosokomon (g1101) gloce-sok'-om-on; from 1100 (speaking in tongues) and the base of 2889; prop. a case to keep mouthpieces of wind-instruments in, i.e. (by extens.) a casket or (spec.) purse: - bag.

It is made up of two words:
...1. Glossa (from Strong's g1100) means "speaking in tongues" especially an unacquired one.

...2. Kosmos (g2889) means the "orderly arrangement" or the "adorning" world. this is derived from (g2864) or Komizo which means "TO CARRY OFF."

Kosmos (g2889) kos'-mos; prob. from the base of 2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by impl. the world (in a wide or narrow sense, includ. its inhab., lit. or fig. [mor.]): - adorning, world.

Lashown (H3956) law-shone'; also (in plur.) fem. from 3960; the tongue (of man or anmals), used
...literally. (as the instrument of licking, eating, of speech), and

...figurative. (speech, an ingot, a fork of flame, a cove or water): - babbler, bay, / evil speaker, language, talker, tongue, wedge

lashan (h3960) law-shan'; a prim. root; prop. to lick; but used only as a denom. from 3956;
....to wag the tongue, i. e. to calumniate: - accuse, slander.

spermo-logos I. Picking up seeds. III. as Subst., one who picks up and RETAILS scraps of KNOWLEDGE, an idle babbler, gossip, D. 18.127, Act.Ap.17.18, Ath.8.344c.

lalax a^gos, ho, babbler, croaker: a name of the green frog ( [kerberos] ), and of a bird, Hsch.; cf. babax.

Strange or stammering tongues is much like naba which described the "prophets" who sang with musical instruments and drove themselves into slobering madness to prove that they had contacted a god--

Laeg (h3934) law-ayg'; from 3932; a BUFFON; also a foreigner: - mocker, stammering.

But in mine ADVERSITY they REJOICED, and gathered themselves together: yea, the ABJECTS gathered themselves together AGAINST me, and I knew it not; they did TEAR me, and ceased not: Ps 35:15

With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth. Ps.35:16

lag (h3932) law-ag'; a prim. root; to deride; by impl. (as if IMITATING a foreigner) to speak unintelligibly: - have in derision, laugh (to scorn), mock (on), stammering.

Translating Psalm 41 which promised that JUDAS would not "triumph over" Jesus with instruments and rejoicing:

DSS: Thy members of my Covenant have rebelled
and have MURMURED round about me;
They have gone as talebearers
before the children of mischief
concerning the MYSTERY which Thou hast hidden in me...

All that hate me WHISPER together against me: against me do they DEVISE my HURT. Ps.41:7

Whisper is like speaking in tongues and is related to Nachash or the serpent in the garden of Eden. Playing a LIFELESS INSTRUMENT or CARNAL WEAPON is an attempt to PANIC or TAME Satan. The king of TYRE was AN AGENT of Lucifer who was in the garden of Eden with wind, string and percussion instruments. As bisexual SHE was the "SINGING AND HARP PLAYING PROSTITUTE." Her goal was commerce: steal your tithes and offerings and then your SOULS.

"The serpent (nachash)-CHARMERS usual instrument is the FLUTE. Those who professed the art of taming serpents were called by the Hebrews menachashim, while the art itself was called lachash , (Jer 8:17; Ecc 10:11)" Smith's Dictionary, Serpent.

Nechosheth (h5178) nekh-o'-sheth; for 5154; copper; hence, something made of that metal, i. e. coin, a FETTER fig. base (as compared with gold or silver): - brasen, brass, chain, copper, fetter (of brass), FILTHINESS, steel.

1. Nachuwsh (h5153) naw-khoosh'; appar. pass. part. of 5172 (perh. in the sense of RINGING,
..I. e. BELL-METAL; or from the red color of the
...THROAT of a SERPENT [5175, as denom.]
....when HISSING); COPPERY, i. e.
....Figurative: hard - of brass.

THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as SOUNDING BRASS, or a tinkling cymbal (a locust). 1 Cor 13:1

....This "love" love demands that, as Paul told Timothy, that he LABOR as he had, to the point of travail. Then, as a Located Missionary (Rubel Shelly) he could exercise CHARITY. This meant to MINISTER to the destitute in feeding them before they looked for work. It does not mean singing silly MAKING LOVE TO GOD praise songs.

This all came out of Babylon where the MOTHER OF THE GODS stole the power of the ELDERSHIP, MAKING MUSIC and SEXUAL PERVERSION:
..."The symbol of Marduk is the pixax (Akkadian, marru), and his emblematic animal is a composite serpent-dragon (with a name derived from the Sumerian mush-hush, "fire-red dragon"). Finegan, Jack, Myth and Mystery, p. 29, Baker

2. Nachuwshah (h5154) nekh-oo-shaw'; or nchushah nekh-oo-shaw'; fem. of 5153; copper: - brass, steel. Comp. 5175

Is 48 makes 5154 and 5155 parallel

3. Nachylah (h5155) nekh-ee-law'; prob. denom. from 2485; a flute: - [plur.] Nehiloth. (Ps 5:1)

..Chalyl (h2485) khaw-leel'; from 2490; a FLUTE (as perforated): - PIPE.

....Chalal (h2490) khaw-lal'; a prim. root [comp. 2470]; prop. to bore, i. e. (by impl.) to wound,
to dissolve; (bore is to perforate the pipe for melody)
figurative: to
1) PROFANE (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge");
denom.
2) (from 2485) to play (the flute): - begin (* men began), defile, * break, defile,
3) eat (as common things), * first, * gather the grape thereof, * take inheritance,
4) pipe, player on instruments,
5) pollute, (cast as) profane self,
6) PROSTITUTE, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

The PRAISE word is derived from h2490 and means to "make yourselve vile" as did David when he sang, played, danced and stripped off naked so that he would be HELD IN HONOR by them. The praise word, in turn is the SOURCE of the word LUCIFER.

Lachash (h3908) lakh'-ash; from 3907; prop. a whisper, i. e. by impl. (in a good sense) a private prayer, (in a bad one) an incantation; concr. an amulet: - charmed, earring, enchantment, orator, prayer.

SPEAKING IN TONGUES AS "GIBBERISH" IS SATAN WHISPERING IN THEIR EARS AFTER HE HAS USED MUSIC TO DIVE THEM INTO INSANITY. Real speaking in tongues was the 70 minor dialect recognized by the Greeks.

Baal-lashon is lord of The Tongue
http://www.piney.com/ His221.html
"Never was Satan's wisdom so craftily used as when he secured universal acceptance of this traditional belief:
...for it has succeeded in fixing the attention of mankind on the letter and the means,
...and thus blinding the eyes to the solemn fact that
.....the Fall of man had to do solely with the Word of God,
....and is centered in the sin of believing Satan's lie instead of Jehovah's truth."

Take it or leave it, but the "serpent" Satan used in the garden of Eden was a "musician" or a Nachash where Paul equates speaking in tongues (lachash) to playing musical instuments which cannot speak. Of Jesus:

They have overtaken me in a narrow pass (gap) without escape
And there is no REST for me in my trial.
...They SOUND my CENSURE upon a HARP
...and their MURMURING and storming upon a ZITHER." Ps.41:11

The TRUMPETS or WIND INSTRUMENTS were also the major WEAPONS to drive the enemy into cowardice. In victory, Messiah would MAKE MUSIC on the harps of God which were his LIPS in offering the fruit of the lips.

A BABBLER gets paid or "worshipped" as he/she mocks Jesus with music to SILENCE His words. Speaking in tongues was a SIGN that the Babylonians were trying to destroy Jerusalem.

Ken
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 12th, 2004, 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 16th, 2004, 4:51 am #43

If you believe the big lie that WINTERFEST is sponsored by Churches of Christ you had better wise up.

This group has always been led by men like Jeff Walling etal who plan to LEAD or SOFTEN your children to make the Satanic connection between MUSIC and WORSHIP.

You can catch up on Jeff Walling here. Note that he suggests to Campus Ministers (youth leaders all) to leave the church of Christ if they cannot TAKE OVER.

http://www.piney.com/WallingInd.html

Whatever your religious group you should not allow the people of the Church of Christ to lead your children into what Hitler call. We will show you that the use of MASS GATHERINGS Hitler and modern cults such as Promise Keepers use the POSTMODERN concept that before THEY can change YOU, they have to induce dissociation or schizophrenia. This can only be done in mass meetings with the use of MIND CONTROL elements of which MUSIC such with booms and clangs is the MOST POWERFUL.

http://www.piney.com/mkv2ch06.html

Don't let them damage your children by COMMERCIAL TRAFFICKERS who "charge for everything."

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 16th, 2004, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bob
Bob

January 17th, 2004, 8:15 pm #44

My kids are at Winterfest right now (in Arlington, TX). The entire youth group and groups from several other churchs go, and it is great. It is great to see so many kids fired up for the right things. They like the teaching, the music, and the fellowship. The more of this in their lives, the better.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

January 17th, 2004, 9:03 pm #45

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
If you know the FEATURED ARTISTS at Winterfest then you know the PRIMARY NEST deliberately sowing discord. They advise you to TAKE OVER and music is the tool.

When you see that their DISCIPLES do just that, you should look deeper into the MASS MOVEMENT and the object of their goal. Whatever, their "status" is identical to the ancient Winterfest. It is still the old Winter Festival of mad women. Here are a few notes to prove that the NEW RITUALS they are pushing are ancient paganism:

IF YOU LEAD OR GO TO WINTERFEST THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE PROJECTING TO THE WATCHING WORLD:

"Of particular interest is the way that early modern playwrights, MUSIC theorists, and THEATER apologists addressed this conflated language of the "enemy," by echoing the same connections between sexuality and playing found in the most virulent antitheatrical tracts. As this paper will demonstrate, by "PLAYING"" with the conflated language, these writers defended their art,
---justifying their existence in a society that was both SEDUCED and REPULSED by them. By CLAIMING the polemical antitheatrical language, these players escaped from the ideological MARGINS to which their opponents had tried to relegate them.

THIS IS WHY THE SPIRITUAL MEMBERS FLEE FOR THEIR LIVES WITHOUT KNOWING WHY BUT HAVING A GOOD IDEA:

"Using the artifices of mimesis and COMEDY they pointed out and DEFUSED their opponents' ANXIETIES about MUSIC, THEATER, and SEXUALITY,
....creating a space for players in the cultural mainstream."

"According to Greek tradition, the actor and playwright Thespis invented the drama when he augmented the chorus of the dithyramb with a single actor who wore masks to portray several different characters.

Comedy (from Greek komos, meaning "revel") was presented competitively in Athens from 486 BC at the LENAEA WINTER FESTIVAL, though it fused much earlier traditions of popular entertainment, mime, phallic rites, and revelry in honour of Dionysus.

WHEN THE JEWS PIPED (JUDAS WAS A PIPER) THEY INTENDED TO SEDUCE JESUS INTO THE PHALLIC SINGING AND DANCING.

"At the Pasadena church, James Ryle, chaplain of the University of Colorado football team, is telling the congregation how Jesus freed him from his own demons -- growing up in an orphanage
--and serving jail time for selling drugs. He tells many JOKES about his missing middle finger, lost to a lawn mower. There are waves of TEAR-wiping laughter.

"Ryle makes SOUND effects, including some ANIMAL noises. He snaps his fingers, bangs the podium, paces and tells how God will appear here in suits of fire, oil, water. "You will feel! And the glory of the Lord will PUT you DOWN!" ("A Rush of Ecstasy and Alarm," Carol McGraw)

Jeff Walling does that too and ridiculing the church brings on lots of laughter.

Athenian There is a tradition or story, which has somehow crept about the world,
--that Dionysus was robbed of his wits by his stepmother Hera,
--and that out of revenge he inspires Bacchic furies and dancing madnesses in others;
--for which reason he gave men wine.

Such traditions concerning the gods I leave to those who think that they may be safely uttered; I only know that no animal at birth is mature or perfect in intelligence; and in the intermediate period,
--in which he has not yet acquired his own proper sense, he rages and roars without rhyme or reason;
--and when he has once got on his legs he jumps about without rhyme or reason; and this, as you will remember,
--has been already said by us to be the origin of music and gymnastic.

Athenian Is not the origin of gymnastics, too, to be sought in the tendency to rapid motion which exists in all animals; man, as we were saying,
--having attained the sense of rhythm, created and invented dancing; and melody arousing and awakening rhythm, both united formed the choral art?

Jesus refused to either SING or DANCE and cast out the musical minstrels.

Mass meetings intend to hurt you. But if you are AWAKE it will tell you lots about those who promote the ancient WINTER FESTIVALS of mad women.

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 18th, 2004, 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 31st, 2004, 2:19 pm #46

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Watch out for pacifists: they will kill you.

In the same way, watch out for preachers of UNITY because they will and HAVE divided you by total IGNORANCE of the Word. They will hurt you real bad if you don't have any urge to fellowship charismatics where this practice has always been a sign of music-induced madness but primarily among women and always by the lower classes (history says so)

Now, the next total arrogance is to justify DIVISION by refusing to promote UNITY is the oxy-moron: "WE are ONLY Christians but NOT the ONLY Christians." Are there Christians among the SECTS? Jesus would say, "What is that to YOU: feed my sheep." A SHEPHERD would never do the promise keeper's insanity and BREAK DOWN THE WALLS. That is exactly what God did when Israel turned to wine, women and song resulting in hunger and thirst for the Word. The BEAST came in and consumed the nation which God had EXPLICITLY WARNED against "fellowship" with other "religions."

Well, there is ample reason to dispute the Christianity of people who--fueled by Biblical illiteracy--DELIBERATELY sow discord and make the name CHURCH OF CHRIST (wot pays u) into a stink, a hiss and a byword.

The frog spirits coming out of the mouth of apostate universities claim, as if they were sane, that Thomas Campbell told them so. But THAT is a great big lie and liars are not Christians. Here is what Campbell said but THEY will pick what they choose.

Lunenburg, July 8th, 1837.

"Dear brother Campbell-- I WAS much surprised to-day, while reading the Harbinger, to see that you recognize the Protestant parties as Christian. You say, you 'find in all Protestant parties Christians.'

"Dear brother, my surprize and ardent desire to do what is right, prompt me to write to you at this time. I feel well assured, from the estimate you place on the female character, that you will attend to my feeble questions in search of knowledge.

"Will you be so good as to let me know how any one becomes a Christian? What act of yours gave you the name of Christian? At what time had Paul the name of Christ called on him? At what time did Cornelius have Christ named on him? Is it not through this name we obtain eternal life?

Does the name of Christ or Christian belong to any but those who believe the gospel, repent, and are buried by baptism into the death of Christ?"

Campbell responds based on the fact that the Restored church did not exist. Therefore, there MUST have been christians in all of the SECTS. Campbell believed that he was a Christian when he had been sprinkled but he learned better. He thought that he was a Christian as a Presbyterian until he offered communion to presbyterians NOT of his sect: the Presbyterians turned him out. He thought that he was a Christian as a Baptist because they IMMERSED but he knew better and preached better and THEY TURNED HIM OUT.

He said:

"Many a good man has been mistaken. Mistakes are to be regarded as culpable and as declarative of a corrupt heart only when they proceed from a wilful neglect of the means of knowing what is commanded.

"Ignorance is always a crime when it is VOLUNTARY; and innocent when it is INVOLUNTARY.

IN FACT THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS FOR SOWING DISCORD WITH A HIGH HAND

ANY CHRISTIANS AMONG THE SECTS?

"JUDGING from numerous letters received at this office, my reply to the sister from Lunenburg has given some pain to our brethren, and some pleasure to our sectarian friends.

"The builders up of the parties tauntingly say to our brethren, "Then we are as safe as you," and "You are coming over to us, having now conceded the GREATEST OF ALL POINT--viz. that immersion is not essential to a Christian."

The builders of the SECTARIAN party in confiscated property have CONCEDED for the once-owners what only ARROGANCE would concede and THERE IS NO REMEDY.

Some of our brethren seem to think that we have neutralized much that has been said on the importance of baptism for remission, and disarmed them of much of their artillery against the ignorance, error, and indifference of the times upon the whole subject of Christian duty and Christian privilege.

That means that disposing of Baptism (yes you have) the INFILTRATERS and DIVERTERS have conceded the ONE PLACE where unity is possible.

Skipping ahead:

I. With all despatch, then, I hasten to show that I have neither conceded nor surrendered any thing for which I ever contended; but that on the contrary, the opinion now expressed, whether true or false, is one that I have always avowed.
....(Footnote in original reads: It is with us as old as baptism for the remission of sins, and this is at least as old as the "Christian Baptist." Read the first two numbers of that work.)

1. Let me ask, in the first place, what could mean all that we have written upon the union of Christians on apostolic grounds, had we taught that all Christians in the world were already united in our own community?

Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

2. And in the second place, why should we so often have quoted and applied to apostate Christendom what the Spirit saith to saints in Babylon--"Come out of her, my people , that you partake not of her sins, and that you receive not of her PLAGUES"--had we imagined that the Lord had no people beyond the pale of our communion!

3. But let him that yet doubts, read the following passages from the Christian Baptist, April, 1825:--

"I have no idea of seeing, nor wish to see, the sects unite in one grand army.
This would be dangerous to our liberties and laws. For this the Saviour did not pray.


If there are CHRISTIANS AMONG THE SECTS CAMPBELL AND JESUS WANTS THEM CALLED: THE MEANING OF THE EKKLESIA.

It is only the disciples dispersed among them that reason and benevolence would call out of them, "&c. &c. This looks very like our present opinion of Christians among the sects!!! 2d ed. Bethany, p. 85.

4. Again, speaking of purity of speech in order to the union of Christians, we say, "None of you [Christians] have ever yet attempted to show how Christians can be united on your principles. You have often showed how they may be divided, and how each party may hold its own, but while you pray for the visible unity of the disciples, and advocate their visible disunity, we cannot understand you." March, 1827, vol. 4.

10. But in the last place in the first Extra on Baptism for Remission of Sins, we exclude from the pale of Christianity of the Pedobaptists, none but such of them as "wilfully neglect this salvation, and who, having the opportunity to be immersed for the remission of sins, wilfully neglect or refuse"--"of such," indeed, but of none others, we say, "We have as little hope for them as they have for all who refuse salvation on their own terms of the gospel." 1st Extra, 1st ed. p. 53.

By quoting UNITY out of John 17 there is INTENTION TO DECEIVE. I will look at the whole chapter later. The LUST for unity is the LUST for recognition, acceptance and POWER.

The URGE to fellowship EVERYONE by refusing fellowship to the OWNERS OF THE HOUSE brings down the Hebrews 6 principle and "there is no more sacrifice for sins."

No one but people BETRAYING their fellowship would buy this junk: certainly, others will accept your attendance and MONEY but YOU will not be allowed to PERFORM in their churches and DRIVE AWAY their member. THEY are not fools but foolers.

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 31st, 2004, 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

February 1st, 2004, 5:57 pm #47

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Dittoing Max Lucado and Lynn Anderson, the latest sermon from John York (lipscomb) and Rubel Shelly show that becoming COMMUNITY or COMMUNE to experience Whole Life Discipleship (in an institution) will LEAD YOU TO JESUS.

This is the Next Wave or <font face="Verdana" size=6>X</font>Wave

http://www.piney.com/RS.Discipling.2.1.html

The Purpose Driven Cult has the same goal of shepherding you while using the MUSICA "locusts" to HURT you real bad and tell YOU that they are LEADING YOU TO JESUS.

Don't let them fool you: the Pharisees are NOT those who honor the direct commands of Jesus about Baptism. The Pharisees, Scribes and Hypocrites were all SECTARIANS of the "worship" type. A Pharisee will sing you a song or preach you a sermon or PRAY a long prayer for you (over and over and over thinking that you will be heard from MUCH praying) but FOR A PRICE--ALWAYS FOR A PRICE.

MUSICA is often connected to PHARISEE in the Greek literature.

The MUSICA or CANTUS word speaks of people who claim to EXCITE you with SPIRITUAL feelings but the REAL effort of the Apollo (Abaddon or Apollyon) Muses is to FRIGHTEN YOU OUT OF YOUR WITS. Sure, they tell you that the EVIL-SMELLING AND TASTING Booze creates a positive influence.

When Paul said DON'T GET DRUNK ON WINE he pointed to the SINGING AND MUSIC of the pagan worshipers who SPOKE out of being INTOXICATED ON IGNORANCE:

kat-auleô, charm by flute-playing,PHOEBE I will flute to you on a ghastly flute, of persons, methuôn kai katauloumenos drinking wine to the strains of the flute,

PHOBOS meaning "panic fear, such as causes flight

Phobos was APOLLO or in Revelation Abaddon or Apollyon. He was the founder of the SEEKER CENTER and the "father of the twanging bow string to send SINGING arrows into your heart, musical harmony, thieves and liars." His ARROWS, like those of Pan and Cupid have double meanings. 'no wat i mean?'

He USED the muses of Revelation 18:22 as part of his team. They lie HIDDEN under the LOCUSTS (musical performers aroused by Apollyon) which SORT OUT those with different MARKS. They have scorpion stings in their tail and rather than feelings peddled as SPIRITUAL they are driving YOU into PANIC so that you CANNOT hear the words of Jesus Christ. That has ALWAYS been lucifer's (Zoe) role beginning in heaven and the garden of Eden. His STING of Eve produced CAIN (a musical note) who was OF THAT WICKED ONE and the father of those who HANDLE (meaning without authority) the musical instruments of Satan.

Because of their nature, this we are told by ancient scholars works ONLY on women and effeminate men.

Ken
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on February 1st, 2004, 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 3rd, 2004, 4:04 am

February 3rd, 2004, 4:04 am #48

The local "infiltrated plant" with blood still dripping from his new SHEEP'S SKIN believes that because WE cannot say how God will SAVE the unbelieving and unbaptized, WE must accept all "sincere" people into full fellowship. However, the denominations with which they have cozy feelings will NEVER give up baptism BECAUSE they were saved without it. If you were baptized IN ORDER TO THE REMISSION of sins you are a CULTISTS according to Baptists. YOU have never had the HIGH FIVE from God that you are one of the SELECT FEW; you have never experienced a supernatural sign, you have never had JESUS personally (or you have not BECOME JESUS) to die for YOUR SINS, then YOU will never be accepted in full fellowship until YOU conform. Paul said that FOOLS love to be FOOLED. THEREFORE, the urge to SAVE people where Jesus has not WASHED them is a CUNNINGLY CRAFTY way to move YOUR church into becoming a BAPTIST church or a charismatic church.

The example of the SAVED thief on the cross "TRUMPS the rest of the Bible and church history." Therefore, this is a DISHONEST way to try to weazel in their false dogma without getting FIRED for being a traitor to Christ and them "wot feeds them."

---Max Lucado writes: "With the exception of the thief on the cross, there is no example of an unbaptized believer.

However, the thief on the cross believed, like the apostles, that Christ would set up an EARTHLY KINGDOM. Therefore, the thief did not believe that Jesus was God Incarnate and had no evidence to suspect that His kingdom was to be in the human heart and not earthly. He did not know anything about the meaning of the gospel as Jesus Christ fulfilling God's purpose to save souls. Baptism is into discipleship to Jesus among the living. Jesus commanded baptism as part of making a disciple to Himself as the master teacher. Therefore, the thief was not baptized into discipleship.

Since the thief on the cross was said to be placed by Jesus in the position of all of the DEAD who would get a chance to hear the gospel, he is NOT an exception to anything.

...Max Lucado exults: "The thief on the cross, however, is a crucial exception. His conversion drives DOGMATISTS crazy.

It also drives crazy people dogmatic. Max Lucado is willing to be deceived into find ONE hallucinated exception and on that repudiates the Bible as it has been taught until Zwingli. This leads to teaching as DOGMA, CREED and a new PATTERNISM that you (who didn't die on a cross for your own sins) can REPUDIATE the direct command of Jesus. If it is a rule that he that jumpeth off a tall building shall die, these people are willing to teach people that YOU CAN'T PROVOE THAT EVERYONE WHO JUMPS DIES. Therefore, YOU have no right to warn people not to jump off tall buildings.

That the thief was "CONVERTED" is just postmodern psychobabble for the "obsolete" Bible. There is no evidence that the thief was converted. Luke by the Holy Spirit draws a parallelism between being BAPTIZED and being CONVERTED. Because the thief believed that Jesus was special and that he understood that Jesus was going to BUILD A KINGDOM he wanted to be remembered. But listen to the mother of the OTHER sons of thunder:

"Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. Matt 20:20
.."And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. Matt 20:21
...."But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. Matt 20:22

Now look at the thief on the cross:

"And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. Luke 23:39
.."But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? Luke 23:40
...."And we indeed JUSTLY; for we receive the DUE REWARD of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Luke 23:41

The Thief never said that he believed that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God. Therefore, he MADE no saving confession. He asked for no FORM of crucifixion to ESCAPE his own cross. He didn't asked to be SAVED or CONVERTED. He didn't even ask Jesus to forgive His sins: he would have thought of asking a HUMAN dying on the cross for forgiveness of sins as blasphemy.

.."And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. Luke 23:42

Of course, Jesus didn't answer the question as was His custom when there was no need for "theology."

..."And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with ME in paradise. Luke 23:43

The kingdom would not begin until the KING and PRIEST sat down on ONE throne. Therefore, paradise IS NOT THE KINGDOM of Christ. Therefore, appealing to a THIEF rather than the SAVIOR for evidence of salvation means that they are ignorant of the meaning of the kingdom and evil for suggesting that Christ's kingdom was in the netherworld where both good and evil resided until the resurrection.

The thief on the cross was a thief. He confessed that he was a thief. He did not know what he was asking.

Jesus promised that he would be in paradise or a park- like place that was pleasant.

The thief on the cross WAS crucified: He WAS baptized with the same "suffering and death." He died for HIS OWN SINS although that could not redeem him.

IF YOU WHINE ABOUT THE THIEF ON THE CROSS, THE FURTHER EVIDENCE OF THOSE THAT "BELIEVETH NOT," AND ARE NOT BAPTIZED MEANS THAT YOU DO NOT ACCEPT CHRIST AS YOUR "INSTEAD OF." You don't even repent FOR forgiveness.

Baptism is a FORM of that baptism of suffering and death. The "form" means anti-type or INSTEAD OF dying on the cross like the thief on the cross.

The TRUE Max often ooozes to the surface as we note again: "The thief on the cross, however, is a crucial exception. His conversion drives dogmatists crazy."

An EXCEPTION to the RULE proves the RULE. If Max accepts that the thief is an EXCEPTION then he confesses that baptism IN ORDER TO REMISSION OF SINS is the rule laid down by Jesus, practiced and commanded by the Apostles and until the Baptist got led astray by Zwingli who said that HE was the EXCEPTION out of 1525 years of church history.

Those who rest their faith on the THIEF should present themselves to the nearest barn to be nailed to it for THEIR OWN SINS, not under OUR ROCK but under the "SEE ROCK CITY" sign. By THEIR PRESUMPTIOUS offering "grace" to those who deliberately disobey the direct commandment of Christ, people deprive themselves of grace. Otherwise, how could one INFILTRATE in order to DIVERT a church and sow massive discord just for a paycheck from the will of a dead, crippled widow?

At the same time, the local god-like urge to SAVE people without their obeying the direct command of Jesus proves the depth of ignorance and false teaching coming out of the once-christian colleges most of which have been TAKEN CAPTIVE until Jesus comes. This will be the MARK Jesus gives when hiring an unlawful "gospel-less preacher."

Nothing is so evil as disloyalty. Charles Spurgeon says in effect that it is the BOTTOM OF THE BARREL of evil when you RIDE the backs of widows and then drive them away in deadly tears by INFILTRATING and DIVERTING. We detest the Judas Goats of the end times who are described as the BEASTS with ten horns: the pan pipes all musical.

Purpose Driven Cultists agree with malice aforethought that they will lose almost half of THEIR congregation in the interest of joining with the Baptists and Church of God to "evangelize" for some kind "Christ" who is not the one in the Bible. Since NEITHER of the cultists "evangelize" this is just another sign of the end-times when people flee to the ROCKS to save them. But, Paul warned to STAY AWAY FROM CROWDS and be "outside the city or walls" in order to find Jesus.

See the gospel most know nothings are following:

http://www.piney.com/Max-Lucado-Thief-on-Cross.html

Ken Sublett
If the thief on the cross did not need baptism to be saved then how did he get to paradise? Christ knew his heart and He knew the thief had faith. Christ, Himself, gave him the gift of faith. Faith in Christ alone saves. Baptism is done out of obedience to the command given by our Lord. It is reflecting the ability and desire to obey God. It is a symbol of the inward change of heart that the Lord has performed. What if someone repents and professes and is struck and killed by lightning and didn't get baptized? Was he saved? Not by your standards. You don't know the heart. Baptism is one of the first good works we do as a believer. Become a disciple and THEN be baptized.

"It is finished." Nothing added, nothing taken away. Christ alone, by faith in Him alone! Then come the good works by Christ strength, not mine or yours which are filthy rags. If Christ atoning work on the cross needs my baptism to seal it then it it is not all of Christ. It would be our partnership. Hogwash!
Only He alone can save and nothing I add helps. He, the Soveriegn Lord of the Universe, saves. All I can do repent and submit my will to his and then praise Him!

Eph 2:8-9, you know it well, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works(not baptism), lest any man should boast.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through FAITH in his , to declare his righteousness for the REMISSION of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which BELIEVETH in Jesus.

Baptism?????????where?

Romans 6 is a physical picture of a spiritual transaction that GOD did to the believer.

Don't get the work of your baptism mix up with the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Brother I pray that God opens your eyes to this wonderful truth.
Jim
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

February 3rd, 2004, 4:43 pm #49

I am worried less about The Thief on the Cross than The thief on the pulpit. 'no wat i mean?

The thief February 2 2004, 10:04 PM

If the thief on the cross did not need baptism to be saved then how did he get to paradise? Christ knew his heart and He knew the thief had faith. Christ, Himself, gave him the gift of faith. Faith in Christ alone saves. Baptism is done out of obedience to the command given by our Lord. It is reflecting the ability and desire to obey God. It is a symbol of the inward change of heart that the Lord has performed.

ALL who did not hear the gospel went into PARADISE. It had two areas: those who were not righteous (meaning that they did righteous things) and practiced social justice went into the side in Abraham's bosom. The wicked went into another "part." The thief didn't asked to be SAVED and Jesus didn't promise him salvation. During the time that God was out of the body, Christ went and preached to these people. The thief would have been on the good side. Baptism is for those who plan to live in DISCIPLESHIP to Jesus Christ: the thief did not need to be added to the church and educated until his death. Furthermore, one disposes of their property any way they choose PRIOR to their death. After their DEATH their will is carried out among the living. WE did not live with Jesus. And furthermore, the thief lived and died UNDER THE LAW of Moses.AND PLEASE DON'T MISS THE POINT: THE THIEF DIED FOR HIS OWN SINS ON THE CROSS. If you plead the thief then you reject the CROSS and the CHURCH which is Chris't BODY until we die.

What if someone repents and professes and is struck and killed by lightning and didn't get baptized? Was he saved? Not by your standards. You don't know the heart. Baptism is one of the first good works we do as a believer. Become a disciple and THEN be baptized.

I don't JUDGE hearts: My job is to understand the Bible and let others TOTALLY REPUDIATE BAPTISM because someone MIGHT be saved without baptism. It is not possible to be more legalistic and JUDGMENTAL where judgmental does not mean "test the spirits" but actually PUNISH people by driving them out of the "synagogue." If God decided to save all of the sinners and punish all of the Christians THAT STILL would not change one jot or tittle of the Bible. If God wants to make exceptions then let HIM make them and not let US make them and commit sin BEYOND REDEMPTION by tring to guess. It is POSSIBLE--since we do not know it all--that somewhere when you DROP a rock it will fly upward. But, just WHOOO are WEEEE to tell our children that it is safe to jump off the building? God and Paul said it: when you question the WORD God makes you DELUSIONAL.

MY mind simple will not GO THERE. If there are exceptions then I want to leave that in the hands of God. Good works is not the MEANS for getting into Christ: We get INTO Christ and His body by baptism ONLY (Gal 3) which is by FAITH ONLY which is by GRACE ONLY which is by the CROSS ONLY. What catches the fish: the fisherman, the pole, the line, the bobber, the bait, a hungry fish or the skill of the angler?

"It is finished." Nothing added, nothing taken away. Christ alone, by faith in Him alone! Then come the good works by Christ strength, not mine or yours which are filthy rags. If Christ atoning work on the cross needs my baptism to seal it then it it is not all of Christ. It would be our partnership. Hogwash!

Christ ATONED or RECONCILED all people to Himself at the cross. However, Paul's ministery was a ministry of RECONCILIATION by preaching the gospel. But, you would say (as Calvinists often do) "But, it is finished and if you tell people how to SIGN UP for the free gift then YOU are in partnership with God." Why is REPENTING less legalistic than baptism. If you are afflicted by booze peddlers it is MUCH HARDER to repent than to have someone dip you into water.

I think that YOUR view REFUSES to give even GOD IN CHRIST the FREE WILL to dispense His free Gifts to those who believe and are baptized. Jesus used a word which says that BELIEVETH NOT belongs to treacherous infidels who REFUSE to honor the SON and the SON honored the FATHER.

Only He alone can save and nothing I add helps. He, the Soveriegn Lord of the Universe, saves. All I can do repent and submit my will to his and then praise Him!

That is what Peter was instructed to tell ALL NATIONS beginning in Jerusalem:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The WILL of God in Christ was that you CANNOT become a DISCIPLE to him except when hearing the gospel you are

....DISCIPLED by BAPTISM and TEACHING what Jesus taught. Jesus taught baptism. The church is an ekklesia or synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. You cannot apprentice to John the Coppersmith until you have faith in him and be BAPTIZED to become "his child" in order for YOU to learn the mysteries or secrets of the craftsmen. That is what Jesus said: You cannot be MY DISCIPLES unless you are baptized as the REQUEST for me to REGENERATE you like a little child.

The DISCIPLES were identified as CHRIST FOLLOWERS or CHRISTIANS at Antioch. Therefore, a person simply CANNOT be a CHRISTIAN without becoming a DISCIPLE through BAPTISM and further teaching of the WORDS OF CHRIST in song and sermons.

PRAISE means telling what God in Christ did in His words: you DO NOT praise Him by silly PRAISE SONGS as the world's oldest superstition.

Eph 2:8-9, you know it well, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works(not baptism), lest any man should boast.

Jesus told the Jews that they COULD NOT read the Word until they TURNED to Christ. Turning to Christ gives you A holy spirit or A pure conscience or consiousness or a co-perception. This does not give you further revelation but the ability to HEAR the Spirit which Jesus said was His Words (2 cor 3). You have TOTALLY missed the first half of Ephesians 2 and REPUDIATED baptism as a work of HUMANS. NO ONE BELIEVES THAT false witness except baby sprinklers or as Martin Luther defined it as much like BABY DEDICATION.

You missed the FIRST half of the INSTRUCTIONS for "brain surgery" and just read the last INSTRUCTION which says: "Close up the brain: you have saved the patient by skilled surgery." Don't do that: it just proves that you CANNOT read the word "as it has been taught." Sermonizing will do that to you when you are DISCIPLED to a Pharisee which means one who is your spiritual SUPERIOR and is therefore worthy of a WAGE for misleading you.

Read the Ephesian message about baptism which is the the EVERLASTING "showing act" of what "saved by gracce through faith."

http://www.piney.com/Baptism.Arche.html#MAJOR

If you cannot grasp it then eat drink and be merry.

Enough for now. Ken
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on February 3rd, 2004, 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Keneth Sublett
Keneth Sublett

February 7th, 2004, 12:05 am #50

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
The Grimes family has been big-time and well talented singers in the Hohenwald Church--forever. I knew and loved Mike's Mom and Dad totally. I din't try to figure him out but I don't believe that he would lie-unless he was telling an old FRONTIER HOHENWALD JOKE. I often asked him to warn me when he was about to die: I wanted to pickle his vocal cords.

Mike returned to find the church in Hohenwald consumed with effeminate singing which made the hair stand on the heads of about a hundred people with people defecting still.

He talked to people and they confimed their false beliefs about baptism proven by hiring a preacher who knew BEFOREHAND that he would be USED. As a result of all of the deliberate Purpose Driven Cult heresy-- including acquiring a fan of the cult. This import immediately began sowing discord about how women were ABUSED when not allowed to PERFORM like male PERFORMERS.

Mike and JoAnne wrote a letter to the members reporting his conversation. When getting no good response but verbal abuse they wrote the letter. Another letter had already been read publically by a resigning deacon which the same OFFICE GOSSIP tries to blacken.

The Hohenwald "leaders" publically labeled them as LIARS and SLANDERERS but never said that their SPY-LIKE agenda was false. They have whimpered some weasel words about baptism.

When people call (close to the inside) I ask: "Is Mike Grimes a liar?" The answer is always: No.

Now the Hohenwald group has mailed their own letter trying to discredit Mike and Joanne for belonging to the "Sacred Harp Singers." Now, dummies, they don't use a MECHANICAL HARP but the HARPS God gave them. They don't do WORSHIP SERVICES and do not use instruments.

Hohenwald does not hesitate to allow female singers belonging to a chorus to stand up and sing. They always do the DING DONG closing prayer to say that "This is NOT any longer a worship service." If someone wanted to use the Hohenwald "plant" to hold a seminar about finances to probably sell insurance and Mutual Funds, they do not consider it a WORSHIP SERVICE. Music AS worship is evil when history knows and the practice proves a deliberate intent to SILENCE the voice of a Holy God.

A Memorial is not a worship service: women often sing or even speak at memorials. Meeting in a CHURCH HOUSE does not make singing evil. From the POSTED PICTURE any one with an IQ as long as their age can see that this is NOT in the SANCTUARY but in a class room. Click here to see how desparate people are to DISCREDIT good and "BELIEVABLE" people to MAKE themselves look SCRIPTURAL:

http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/fasola.html

If Joann "preached" it would STILL not make the Hohenwald deliberate sowing of discord correct.

This is the typical effort to MASK their own heresy and deliberate sowing of discord by BLACKENING THE NAMES of anyone who DARES question the dominant leaders.

The EXISTING elders do not believe the ATTEMPT AT SMEARING: they DO NOT believe that Mike is a Liar but they HAVE to go along using the CONCENSUS leadership scam.

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on February 7th, 2004, 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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