Give Me A Break!

Give Me A Break!

Mr. Fabulous
Mr. Fabulous

June 6th, 2003, 5:51 am #1

You "concerned members" point the figure at stuff that isn't even support in the bible! You all forget must have skipped these verses... "3. As I urged you when I went ino Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4. (donnie take notes on this one!) nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies THESE PROMOTE CONTROVERSIES RATHER THAN GOD'S WORK - WHICH IS BY FAITH. 5. the goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6. SOME HAVE WANDERED AWAY FROM THESE AND TURNED TO MEANINGLESS TALK. 7. THEY WANT TO BE TEACHERS OF THE LAW, BUT THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT OR WHAT THEY SO CONFIDENTLY AFFIRM!" 1 Timothy 1:3-7

You're all caught up in what you "think" church is suppose to be like, and yet your heart is in the wrong place. The bible, as I just have shown, speaks out against people like all of you that are in support of this or any other web site like this. We're put on this earth to love God with ALL OUR HEART, not to pash our fellow christian because they do it different. I'm not saying I support madison or I don't support them. I personally don't attend so I can't put my input in since I've never been, but I can put my input on what I see from this web site.

Also, if you actually read your bible you might find this verse "...The IMPORTANT THING is that in every way whether from FALSE MOTIVES or TRUE, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." Philippians 1:16. So even if madison is what you think is "false to the word of God" it is STILL PLEASING TO GOD! That includes baptists, tv evangalist, etc...

So you can continue to hurt the faith more then help, and also hurt yourself more then anything. Atleast I know that when I go to church I'M praising God with my whole heart, and not taking note of what is "wrong"! Get a life and give me a break!

Mr. Fabulous
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Mark Waggoner
Mark Waggoner

June 6th, 2003, 1:22 pm #2

While I certainly can't speak for anyone else who posts on this site, your contention that it pleases God whenever Christ is preached is open for debate. If you mean when ALL of Christ is preached, you are correct; however, your inclusion of denominationalists points to the contrary.

Explain to me, how the Judaizing teachers mentioned in Galatians 1 are "anathema" or "accursed" when they "teach Christ" by your definition. Make no mistake, the Judaizers were FALSE TEACHERS, but they did PREACH CHRIST. They would be OK and pleasing to God according to you. The question is: why were they false teachers? It was that they taught that one had to become a Jew before becoming a Christian - something that the scriptures do not support. We can safely conclude from this and other examples that anyone who teaches something not supported by scripture will be thought of in the same light in the eyes of God - accursed.

Is salvation by faith (belief) only supported by scripture? I think not, according to James 2 and other passages. Even if this error is taught with pure motives, it is still error. Zeal for God must be in harmony with knowledge, according to Romans 10, regardless of how one "feels". Saul thought that he was doing God's will when he persecuted the church. Our motives are important because everything should be done out of love; however, our motives do not justify false doctrine.

Faith (working faith) only comes by hearing the Word of God. "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception."
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Mr. Fabulous
Mr. Fabulous

June 7th, 2003, 5:47 am #3

Mark,

You see I didn’t write the bible. I was just sighting passages that are IN it! Plus you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Since you did I’ll re-state it for you. My point was that people like Donnie are wasting their time, and are bringing down the church, and I supported it with scripture. What he and others like him on this web site try to argue, have no real proof that what they say is wrong, IS wrong. They come to conclusion about stuff, and then decide to bring down another Church because they don’t believe as they believe. The bible is open for interpretation and it’s no one on this earths right to say exactly what is right and what is wrong. I was simply stating that people waist there time and just hurt themselves by getting caught up in stuff that they don’t know for fact is right or wrong. And as I clearly pointed out last time, the bible speaks out against these people, because they do more harm then good.

Who are you to say “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy & empty deception.”?!?!? I read my BIBLE and have a great love for Christ. The “philosophy and empty deception” you speak of came straight out of the bible! I am willing to accept what s said unlike you! I was NOT saying that I agreed or disagreed with Madison or with Concerned Members.com. I was simply saying what is true! If God is truth and the bible was written by God through people, and then you say what I quote from the BIBLE is false, I’m sorry sir but that throws your whole belief in him out the window. If he is the truth and you don’t believe part then you don’t believe. Just because you have an issue doesn’t mean you can pre-judge me! THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK!

Mr. Fabulous
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Mr. Fabulous
Mr. Fabulous

June 7th, 2003, 8:06 am #4

While I certainly can't speak for anyone else who posts on this site, your contention that it pleases God whenever Christ is preached is open for debate. If you mean when ALL of Christ is preached, you are correct; however, your inclusion of denominationalists points to the contrary.

Explain to me, how the Judaizing teachers mentioned in Galatians 1 are "anathema" or "accursed" when they "teach Christ" by your definition. Make no mistake, the Judaizers were FALSE TEACHERS, but they did PREACH CHRIST. They would be OK and pleasing to God according to you. The question is: why were they false teachers? It was that they taught that one had to become a Jew before becoming a Christian - something that the scriptures do not support. We can safely conclude from this and other examples that anyone who teaches something not supported by scripture will be thought of in the same light in the eyes of God - accursed.

Is salvation by faith (belief) only supported by scripture? I think not, according to James 2 and other passages. Even if this error is taught with pure motives, it is still error. Zeal for God must be in harmony with knowledge, according to Romans 10, regardless of how one "feels". Saul thought that he was doing God's will when he persecuted the church. Our motives are important because everything should be done out of love; however, our motives do not justify false doctrine.

Faith (working faith) only comes by hearing the Word of God. "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception."
Mark,

Also, James 2 states that one is not to have favortism towards others, and the last part is about how you can't have faith with out doing deeds. Which has NOTHING to do with what I was trying to say in my post. Also if you were to actually read Galatians 1 you would see that it condemns people who teach other gospels other then that of Christ.. ALSO NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT! Basically the scripture you used had nothing to do with my point what so ever, and you bashed me for being right. How about you actaully read your bible and stop try to act like you're smart and then get back to me... THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK!

Mr. Fabulous
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

June 7th, 2003, 6:58 pm #5

Mark,

You see I didn’t write the bible. I was just sighting passages that are IN it! Plus you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Since you did I’ll re-state it for you. My point was that people like Donnie are wasting their time, and are bringing down the church, and I supported it with scripture. What he and others like him on this web site try to argue, have no real proof that what they say is wrong, IS wrong. They come to conclusion about stuff, and then decide to bring down another Church because they don’t believe as they believe. The bible is open for interpretation and it’s no one on this earths right to say exactly what is right and what is wrong. I was simply stating that people waist there time and just hurt themselves by getting caught up in stuff that they don’t know for fact is right or wrong. And as I clearly pointed out last time, the bible speaks out against these people, because they do more harm then good.

Who are you to say “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy & empty deception.”?!?!? I read my BIBLE and have a great love for Christ. The “philosophy and empty deception” you speak of came straight out of the bible! I am willing to accept what s said unlike you! I was NOT saying that I agreed or disagreed with Madison or with Concerned Members.com. I was simply saying what is true! If God is truth and the bible was written by God through people, and then you say what I quote from the BIBLE is false, I’m sorry sir but that throws your whole belief in him out the window. If he is the truth and you don’t believe part then you don’t believe. Just because you have an issue doesn’t mean you can pre-judge me! THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK!

Mr. Fabulous
Dear Fab, If that isn't too personal:

You have NOT been awake. You just pick one of the Issues which Donnie and others have proven to be either pagan, legalistic or anti-Biblical and defend it. Then, we will show you again, if you are awake. I say that because Jesus said that the mysteries of God have been hidden from the foundation of the world to guard it from those who don't have eyes or ears (Isaiah 6; 29). Isaiah 48 says that this was to keep the truth out of the hands of PROFESSIONALS who "water the wine" and dispense the water of the Word retail.

Pick it: "praise teams" originated with Satan. "There is no other" traditions.

Tithing was IMPOSED because of the MUSICAL IDOATRY at mount Sinai. It was only for a priesthood sacrificing TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TYPES OF JESUS CHRIST.

A DOMINANT LEADERSHIP: God's leaders are servants.

Deliberate sowing of discord: beyond redemption.

Preaching the latter day TRITHISM or the FAMILY OF GOD consisting of a committee of THRE persons: some more fit for some tasks than others. A damnable heresy.

It is used so that they can IGNORE God, His Word and His Living Word and depend on the SPIRIT PERSON who guides you into Christ-truth which is now outdated. Anyone who claims that 1/3 of the God family literally lives in the CARNAL BODY is delusional and dangerous.

Well, Fab, those have been refuted to ANYONE WITH EYES AND EARS. Pick one and defend, say, a MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM and we will show you that your THOUGHT LEADERS are terminally ignorant or terminally evil.

Jesus said to SOW THE SEED and MOST of them are going to fall on ROCKheads and SHALLOWminds. Not to worry, some will fall ong GOOD soil and will germinate and not be KILLED with Rock music. You know, you can kill a plant with music?

So, keep on plucking seed and we will keep planting and we will let God do the increase and the bookkeeping.

Looking forward to your first argument to prove that you are a parrot instead of a raven (demon)>

Ken
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Mark Waggoner
Mark Waggoner

June 8th, 2003, 12:20 am #6

Mark,

Also, James 2 states that one is not to have favortism towards others, and the last part is about how you can't have faith with out doing deeds. Which has NOTHING to do with what I was trying to say in my post. Also if you were to actually read Galatians 1 you would see that it condemns people who teach other gospels other then that of Christ.. ALSO NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT! Basically the scripture you used had nothing to do with my point what so ever, and you bashed me for being right. How about you actaully read your bible and stop try to act like you're smart and then get back to me... THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK!

Mr. Fabulous
I do not know Donnie or anyone else who posts on this site and do not respond to accusations made concerning any particular assembly. I do respond to things that are said that need to be addressed - the real issues, if you will. You quoted some scripture but did it affirm your position? In fact, the passage you quoted actually supports what I said, that false doctrine is not to be tolerated.

The Bible is NOT open for interpretation. It was not written by any man's interpretation so why should we be able to interpret it as we see fit? Jesus said that we can know the truth - that sounds very absolute, to me.

Who am I to say, "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy & empty deception."? I think that you should study Colossians 2. There was no pre-judging here. I took issue with what you said concerning the Baptists, TV envangelists, etc. who do teach "another gospel" and that was all. Perhaps you should re-read my post in that light.

This was not an attempt to "bash" you or anyone else, I do not do that. From your reply, it sounds as if you're the one who knows it all!
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

June 9th, 2003, 7:12 am #7

You "concerned members" point the figure at stuff that isn't even support in the bible! You all forget must have skipped these verses... "3. As I urged you when I went ino Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4. (donnie take notes on this one!) nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies THESE PROMOTE CONTROVERSIES RATHER THAN GOD'S WORK - WHICH IS BY FAITH. 5. the goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6. SOME HAVE WANDERED AWAY FROM THESE AND TURNED TO MEANINGLESS TALK. 7. THEY WANT TO BE TEACHERS OF THE LAW, BUT THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT OR WHAT THEY SO CONFIDENTLY AFFIRM!" 1 Timothy 1:3-7

You're all caught up in what you "think" church is suppose to be like, and yet your heart is in the wrong place. The bible, as I just have shown, speaks out against people like all of you that are in support of this or any other web site like this. We're put on this earth to love God with ALL OUR HEART, not to pash our fellow christian because they do it different. I'm not saying I support madison or I don't support them. I personally don't attend so I can't put my input in since I've never been, but I can put my input on what I see from this web site.

Also, if you actually read your bible you might find this verse "...The IMPORTANT THING is that in every way whether from FALSE MOTIVES or TRUE, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." Philippians 1:16. So even if madison is what you think is "false to the word of God" it is STILL PLEASING TO GOD! That includes baptists, tv evangalist, etc...

So you can continue to hurt the faith more then help, and also hurt yourself more then anything. Atleast I know that when I go to church I'M praising God with my whole heart, and not taking note of what is "wrong"! Get a life and give me a break!

Mr. Fabulous
Mr. Fabulous:

The passage you quoted at the outset is one of my favorite passages. So, let me quote it here again, Paul’s instruction to Timothy: “[3] As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine. [4] Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. [5] Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: [6] From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; [7] Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.” (I Timothy 1:3-7)

You interjected in verse 4: “Donnie, take notes on this one!” So, I have done just that. The passage you quoted is certainly a great message to those change advocates who have victimized churches with their man-devised schemes by IMPROVING UPON GOD’S WILL for His disciples and followers. You see, Donnie or ConcernedMembers is NOT teaching anything NEW that is false; otherwise, you yourself should have come up with AT LEAST ONE FALSE TEACHING you’re accusing us of. So, there goes your credibility down the drain!

I do not know Mark Waggoner, either. But he was right on, and he did not deviate one bit from discussing issues that you had brought up in the first place: false teaching and denominationalism. Mark also pointed out the erroneous doctrine that one is saved by faith only. He correctly pointed out that pure motives do not justify false doctrine.

No, Mr. Fabulous, Donnie is not bringing the church down. In fact, his great love for the church of our Lord is evidenced by the fact that he strongly feels the church must avoid being infected and contaminated by dreadful spiritual diseases of post-modernism, charismatic misbehavior, contemporary thoughts, beliefs and practices that undermine the validity and veracity of the scriptures.

Next time, please be prepared to have a list of your accusations against me or against this website, plus state your reasons why. Fair enough?

Donnie
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Yogi
Yogi

June 10th, 2003, 5:21 am #8

I'd just like to say that i agree with Mr. Fabulous completly, if the people that use these verse would take the time to read thier bible instead of taking those verses they use out of context maybe they would see that they are wrong. He is not stating that the church is always right. But all you boys do is focus on the bad things. Why? I think that most of the people on this website are blind and don't see past the lies that the devil lays before them. But i just want to let you know that Jesus loves you anyway.
Yogi
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Chris
Chris

June 10th, 2003, 2:22 pm #9

The Bible says, "Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou likewise."

What does it apply to? Being Gay, Being Nice, Merciful, loving . . .?

You don't understand what Jesus is condoning because the whole of the matter is not being considered. That is the same with the issues that those on the "left" and "right" don't understand. We must consider all the Bible when considering a single verse.

For Example: The Thief on the cross. How was he saved. By faith, yes. By expression of his belief that Jesus was the Son of God, Yes. Was he saved at the point that Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise, yes. Was he saved without baptism? Ah ha!! you can't anwer that because you do not know his background. How did he know who Christ was?

Last Question, Does it matter if he was saved by his expression of faith to Jesus? No!!!!

The Theif on the cross lived and was granted pardon under the Mosaic despensation. Jesus lived a life of a Jew. He corrected morality for all time, but he lived a Jewish life. he sacrifice animals as was commanded by Moses. He offered contribution (tithes) even though He was very poor. He did everything that a Jew had to do and did it perfectly. Then he died.

The thief is not an example of how to be saved today because he did not live in our or under our Christian Despensational law. Many who are proponents of "progressive" things in the Church are simply uninformed of the acceptable way of worship that God wants today. That or else they know it and change it anyway. But I may give most the benifit of the doubt.

Total context does necessarily mean just read the whole verse, or even the whole chapter, or even the whole book, but it means reading all that God had to say concerning said topic and coming to a conclusion based on those things.

We are saved by faith. yes
We are saved by faith only. No

The difference is that you will give the second answer if you have taken into account James, Hebrews and other places in with faith is described (by its application) to be belief plus the action that results.

please consider this and rethink your objections to the arguments offered on this site.

Thanks
Chris Eubanks
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

June 10th, 2003, 6:56 pm #10

I'd just like to say that i agree with Mr. Fabulous completly, if the people that use these verse would take the time to read thier bible instead of taking those verses they use out of context maybe they would see that they are wrong. He is not stating that the church is always right. But all you boys do is focus on the bad things. Why? I think that most of the people on this website are blind and don't see past the lies that the devil lays before them. But i just want to let you know that Jesus loves you anyway.
Yogi
Yogi, you did not make yourself clear. Are you admitting, then, that the change activists are doing the bad things and that we, the “concerned members,” are focusing on these bad things of theirs? If that’s the case, there is a lot of truth in this statement: the change advocates are doing a lot of damage to the church.

Focusing on certain negative things is not altogether bad! We will NOT cease to hope and pray for continued peace and unity in the church. Paul addressed this: “[7] Now I pray to God that ye do NO EVIL; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do NOTHING AGAINST THE TRUTH, but for the truth.” (II Corinthians 13)

God loves you, too, Yogi.

Donnie
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