First Colony Church: notes on Instrumental Music in 1 Corinthians 14

Ray
Ray

May 7th, 2008, 11:24 pm #11

Note to Anonymous. Ronnie Norman is not head of the eldership. He is not even amoung the Directing Elders. He is one of the Shepherding Elders, who work directly with the deacons and staff. One of the Directing Elders serves as an Elder Chairman for their meeting and comunucations. The * is described in each entry and you are correct that it denotes one of the Directing Elders. For the most part, these are the godly men who have been elders the longest. As for this site, when I see "piney" or "sublett" I can count on that mening three things: He doesn't speak for God, for the congregation he is not a member of but still is attacking, or for the principles of the Restioration Movement. He is simply a divisive and meddlesome agitator.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

May 8th, 2008, 2:57 am #12

Ray,

Thank you for your response! I appreciate you and other members who seek the truth in love. I grew up in the Church of Christ and I have never witnessed what is happening at First Colony. I have been at a Church of Christ where the minister started speaking in "tongues" and most of us just dismissed him. What I have not seen is the complete change of culture that we are experiencing. It is hard to believe that there has been a complete walk of faith, without outside sources consulting Ronnie and the elders through out these changes, which the congregation has been experiencing. I would point to the DVD produce with Rick Atchtley. Rick is a well known consultant, who has as much to say about what is happening, as Ken Sublett does. There has been meddling that the congregation has not been privileged to know, that the leadership has allowed and possibly engaged. If the information is true what Ken Sublett says Ronnie has been involved with, I am afraid we have had a snake in our midst. The Elders will have to answer to God for that, about the way they have been spending the monies the flock has been contributing to God’s work and they will answer for the direction they are taking this church. I am not judging them, God knows their hearts, and I do not. Yet I will invetigate until I find the truth. I can only pray their example leads us to a closer walk with him.

Robert
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 8th, 2008, 3:19 am #13

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
Here is how they turn the trick: This is so vile I have trouble believing that even Satan could pull it off without some real trouble in river city. But, Paul warned the Thessalonian church.

You will notice that Ministry Team is at the TOP.

<font color=blue>Ronnie Norman is our Senior Minister. Ronnie's gifts of preaching and providing leadership to the church family continue to be a catalyst for effective ministry. Serving the church since 1985, Ronnie is the only Senior Minister in the history of First Colony.</font> 1985 is about the time a small band of merry men concocted their plan and made masterful use of Machiavelli and Mein Kampf. Ronnie Norman's name has been spread far and wide as part of this notorious band.

Elders:

Ronnie Norman became a Directing elder in 2004

A nasty conflict of interest

Dates they became elders: 2007, 2005, 2001, 1992, 2007, 2007, *1996, 2005, 2007, *1987, 2007, 2005, *1991, 2007, 2001, 2007, ronnie 2004, 2005, 2005, 2005, *1991, 2007, *1991, 2005, 2005, 2005, 2007,

So ALL of the DIRECTING ELDER are Pre-Diversion.

You have a brand new CROP and THAT is part of the Purpose Driven scam.


Shepherding elders have been well defined by men like Rubel Shelly as SHEPHERDING THE MINISTER "who by training and charisma is best suited to be THE leader." By working with the deacons and staff you can see that you have been transistion from a Scriptural church of Christ where the elders are the TOTAL overseers and feeders of the flock who are named along with the deacons. This was charted by Rick Atchley using the PYRAMID because the NEW INSTITUTE is a virtual ziggurat or Tower of Babel where the agent of the gods sits up on top where the collection plate is located. The slaves sing and play instruments on their way to "lay by in store" being told that they will meet the gods or angels ascending and descending. The Mother of Harlots lives again.

Lynn Anderson used some slick willie pressure to get a very conservative eldership to permit him to hold

http://www.piney.com/Anderson-Shepherds.html

This was San Antonio June 19-21, 2003, so you can see that an OVERPOWERING crop of new elders undoubtedly infused by Ronnie Norman was just in time to "start boiling the frogs" because deception takes time and lots of planning. The SHEPHERDING elders will be the ones in contact and the old faithful elders have been KICKED UPSTAIRS.

I quote: <font color=red>"The first annual National Shepherd's Clinic will be held in San Antonio June 19-21, 2003 at Northside Church of Christ. Join me and hundreds of other church leaders for two rich days: Shepherding skills, Case studies from churches in transition, Moving from control to empowerment, Litigation-proofing your church....
  • and Transitioning your church.
    Also Chris Seidman and Ronnie Norman presented strong keynote addresses.
</font>In the Purpose Driven Cult "litigation" includes how to forge your bylaws so that when YOU steal the property the OWNERS cannot steal it back.

<font color=blue>Transition n 1: the act of passing from one state or place to the next [syn: {passage}] 2: an event that results in a transformation [syn: {conversion}, {changeover}] 3: a change from one place or state or subject or stage to another 4: a musical passage moving from one key to another [syn: {modulation}] 5: a passage that connects a topic to one that follows
<color=red>"The sessions addressed Transitioning: Moving church leadership style from a Managing Board to a Shepherd's Circle of shepherding, mentoring and equipping. The agenda featured eight case studies from congregations at one stage or another along "Transition Trail" -- sharing both successes and difficulties.</font>

Now you know that the old Managing Board has been usurped by a "Shepherd's Circle of Shepherding." Old Lynn lifts lots of stuff directly from Wicca or Witchcraft "patternism."

Lynn Anderson promotes the Promise Keepers Shepherding scheme which intends to turn the church into a Crossroads or IOCC movement with top-down domination.

I have a Web Page where I will continue to upgrade to prove that the hostile musical takeover is always the rise ot the effeminate or worse "providing a place in the mainstream for those who both amuse and repulse." This fits the patternism that most churches have become a feminist or effeminate ritual nothing like the MASCULINE school of the Bible Jesus died for to get these burden laders off your back.

http://www.piney.com/First.Colony.Norman.html

If I have lifted comments you had rather not get posted just let me know. I will also post any updates so we can see the Mother dragging the sheep off into the bushes.

PATTERNISM OF PERFIDITY.

2003 Teaching others by CASE STUDIES about how to TRANSISTION your church.
2004 Ronnie Norman gets to be a Directing Elder
  • These men undoubtedly OWE Ronnie for their position and THEY will direct the Staff and Elders:
    What else is there to DIRECT.
Chris Seidman had turned the trick: they wrote a white paper filled with black lies and dared me to refute. I did.
Max Lucado had a VISION to remove CHRIST out of the way and ADD instruments: you understand just soft strings in maybe a class room. Lies. Wrote out his vision which parallels Chris Seidman which parallels the script handed to them by the NACC.
Rick Atchley--college roomie--went next. The Holy Spirit guarded, guided and directed to do his sermons: all lies and the same script.
Mark Henderson was the next one to get goosed: same lies with Atchley's CD."
Having figured the LOSSES as acceptable in
Ronnie Norman STACKS THE DECK and goes 2008

I can tell you one thing, this writer KNOWS that they are all lying and managed their lying wonders just like Revelation 17-18 details which happened several times in the Old Testament.

Not, to worry too much: You can count Milton Jones who spread the same lies in Seattle and stole my best work, you can count I have listed and I have not heard the names of any others. So PURPOSE DRIVEN to divert 13,000 congregations they got a few Anti Christ Universities which will help HEAL the wounds and those churches the INTENTIONAL DIVERTERS have had to radicalize or be so ashamed that they would have to be premature in their Judas Maneuver.

You need to look closely at why this small group have been so bonded to follow one another in sequence and all knowing that they were lying TO God and ABOUT God. Those enablers will burn in the same toasters.

When Ronnie LECTURES please transcript or make a list of the PROOFS and the Passages he twists out of shape and I will respond.
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Ray
Ray

May 8th, 2008, 10:19 pm #14

Ray,

Thank you for your response! I appreciate you and other members who seek the truth in love. I grew up in the Church of Christ and I have never witnessed what is happening at First Colony. I have been at a Church of Christ where the minister started speaking in "tongues" and most of us just dismissed him. What I have not seen is the complete change of culture that we are experiencing. It is hard to believe that there has been a complete walk of faith, without outside sources consulting Ronnie and the elders through out these changes, which the congregation has been experiencing. I would point to the DVD produce with Rick Atchtley. Rick is a well known consultant, who has as much to say about what is happening, as Ken Sublett does. There has been meddling that the congregation has not been privileged to know, that the leadership has allowed and possibly engaged. If the information is true what Ken Sublett says Ronnie has been involved with, I am afraid we have had a snake in our midst. The Elders will have to answer to God for that, about the way they have been spending the monies the flock has been contributing to God’s work and they will answer for the direction they are taking this church. I am not judging them, God knows their hearts, and I do not. Yet I will invetigate until I find the truth. I can only pray their example leads us to a closer walk with him.

Robert
What Ken has to say is as far from the truth as the east is from the west. Just a glance as his piney.com website proves that there is very little in God's Kingdom and the churches of Christ that Ken approves of.
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KEN Sublett
KEN Sublett

May 9th, 2008, 4:03 am #15

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
Here is why you NEED all of those BRAND NEW SHEPHERDS (probably not elders). Max Lucado hired a Discipling Minister. So, you already have the ticks fangs sunk deeply and lots of the resources have been already DIVERTED. They can still be litigated for stealing from you. The secret Guitar thing has not been accidental and I suggest you seek out a "Church in Exile" which has been planning how to do the CULT takeover. Lynn Anderson gives you reason for NEVER telling any of these new SHEPHERDS the time of day and you need to spread the word. They will love to get the dope on you and all such accountability groups insist that your secrets be tabulated and turned in to headquarters. Thereafter, if you dare even question them they will hurt you. Anyone willing to lie, cheat and steal your property, spiritual happiness, church family and literaly family connections. Rick Atchley let it be known that "you may have to choose between your family and instrumental music." The Stepford wives will also be ready to work on any wife whose husband begins to stand in their way.

Lynn Anderson: <font color=blue>Accountability Group (no more than 3) What are some good questions to ask each time 2 or 3 of us men meet to hold each other accountable. What are the do's and don'ts of such a commitment...size limits...suggestions for such a commitment. If women want to do this, what accountability questions would be asked in this case? Your ideas and experiences and suggested resources please. We are ministers wanting to lead holy lives before our community in the hope that we may have opportunities to minister and teach.

Accountability Group (no more than 3) Maybe something I say about this can be of help.
I think we all know that accountability is an essential part of Christianity in that we are to help each other grow and become sharpened as iron sharpens iron.

Accountability questions need to be positive focused, direct, and geared toward motivating people to grow.

This type of accountability can be hard but it is where people really grow. Especially us ministers have a hard time admitting our faults for fear of discovery and losing our jobs and/or reputations. The end result is that many of us live double lives with secret sin being our second god that we worship when no one else is looking.

Obviously in some cases this deeper type of accountability is only appropriate within all male or all female groups.

Accountability groups only work when there is trust and openness. This may take a while to develop.</font>

<font color=red>Give it time and START SLOW until you feel that your relationship can progress into these more INTIMATE areas.</font>

<font color=blue>Here's the list from Steve Farrar's "Point Man" (Promise Keepers)

1. Have you been with a woman this week in such a way that was inappropriate or could have looked to others that you were using poor judgment?

2. Have you been completely above reproach in all your financial dealings this week?

3. Have you exposed yourself to any explicit material this week?

4. Have you spent daily time in prayer and in the Scriptures this week?

5. Have you fulfilled the mandate of your calling this week?

6. Have you taken time off to be with your family this week?

7. Have you just lied to me?

Actually, Hope Network Ministries exists to coach, mentor and equip spiritual leaders. For that reason we do not use our web site to process doctrinal issues,

denominational peculiarities or personalities.

Rather we use this forum to encourage christian leaders, share ministry resources, coach and respond to questions regarding strategies, systems, skills etc. - things of this nature.</font>

<font coloro=red>For most stable people this sounds so far out that you may be in DENIAL because your normal mind cannot grasp the depth of people able to work LYING WONDERS.</font>
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Anonymous
Anonymous

May 9th, 2008, 5:11 am #16

What Ken has to say is as far from the truth as the east is from the west. Just a glance as his piney.com website proves that there is very little in God's Kingdom and the churches of Christ that Ken approves of.
Ray,

Except for this website and piney.com, I would never have known who Ken was. At least he tries to answer quetions and I will respect him. I am searching for some answers, to some of the questions, I have about what is happening. I do not get answers from First Colony, in fact I get propaganda. I get why we need to do what we are doing from a DVD from a minister from another church. Friends of mine have approached elders about what is going on and they have been told that "maybe you should find some other place to worship". Why can't our elders be more forthcoming? Other than Ronnie have you heard one speak to the assembly about any of this? Even in those selected meetings, people were suppressed from speaking what was on their hearts. You have got to believe there is some deceit going on!

Robert
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Joined: April 15th, 2008, 3:30 am

May 10th, 2008, 5:52 pm #17

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
I wanted to comment on Ronnie’s sermon this past Sunday (5-4-2008). He took his sermon from Romans and specifically the section I wanted to speak to is in Romans 14. I do not believe that Paul was talking about people within the same Faith. I can almost say for certain that he was speaking of people with different Faiths. Those faiths included eastern religion that had practices far different than those practiced by the followers of Jesus. I believe that the people that congregated together were of like mind in how they should do “church”. For example, in Stafford, TX on Ave. E there is the most beautiful Hindu Temple. Hinduism believes that one can be of any religion, yet their faith is still Hindu. They can sit in any church and not violate their faith. Their religion is very open, their faith is very strong. If they were to be converted to a belief in Jesus, they would have a lot of adjusting in their hearts. Inside their temple is a statue/Idol which is tended to daily. They will change the robes on this statue at least every two days, food will be placed in front of it regularly and the windows and doors are opened and shut depending on weather and the light. I think Paul was saying to Christians, then and now, accept these people as souls that God cares for and do not belittle them, and keep your comments between you and God(vs. 22). We should minister to them in the love of Jesus. I do not believe that in Chapter 14 and 15 he was suggesting that we as a body of believers in the same congregation, recognize our differences, divide up among ourselves, be understanding of each other, and share the same preacher as a sign of unity. How is sharing the same preacher between different types of services showing anything?

When Jesus called his faithful, he told them to leave everything and follow him. During Jesus time, knowing how to provide food on a daily basis would be important to a mass of people, like fishing for food would have been. He did not turn to his followers and say, my ministry could use a few your nets and boats for fishing to feed people. He did not say, this ability you have mastered, would make my ministry more appealing to people and bring more people to knowing God. Nothing like the messages that Ronnie has been teaching the congregation about the musical service that he believes needs to be implemented, so as to attract or satisfy people. No on the contrary! Jesus said leave everything, your fishing nets, boats, bait, everything and follow me in Faith! Could we not say, as we follow Jesus example, that we need nothing to be more appealing to others than our heart, the spirit within us, which is God’s gift to everyone! Now in love, who should we follow?
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 10th, 2008, 10:24 pm #18

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
Robert, this is the usual mantra to prove that it gives THEM the right to bring THEIR doubtful disputations into the "school of the Bible" and YOU have no right to object. The fact is, Paul was consigning all of the SELF-speak and self composed non-Biblical sermons and songs to the MARKETPLACE along with all other defiling or polluting practices.

It simply is not possible to even hallucinate turning a Church of Christ into a musical worship center without being terminally ignorant or terminally evil. The cards are ALL stacked against the latter day upstarts but they put on their blinders and pretend that the radical associaton with Satan, warriors, sacrificial sacrificers, prostitutes and Sodomites does not exist.

<font color=red>I do not believe that in Chapter 14 and 15 he was suggesting that we as a body of believers in the same congregation, recognize our differences, divide up among ourselves, be understanding of each other, and share the same preacher as a sign of unity. How is sharing the same preacher between different types of services showing anything?</font>

<font style="arial" size="4">What he is saying is that he wants to SPLIT the congregation so that his planned discorders can have their OWN church and drive many of the owners out into the cold. You are not speaking of a doctrinal problem you are speaking of the personification of evil.</font>

It is abundantly clear that the GOAL is to go fully instrumental. They want to pollute the owners building with what they consider sinful and ANTI-Biblical and use psychological violence to keep them from RUNNING--but they will.

Those discipled in the Bible know that using MACHINES in the worship of a Holy God is universally condemned in the Bible and all of church history. It is always in the Bible a MARK of those telling God to: "Shut your face." If you are going to be DIVISIVE then Ronnie should do the minimally ethiical thing and go to a church already SERVING those who want to do "machine worship." It certainly shows that Ronnie is bound to get his way--spite of hell. Let him try to get the Baptist or Christian church to be so radically foolish.

They should have those opinions to themselves. They are NOT to be received in the church in order to accomodate their views. By teacing "that which is written" with one mind and one mouth in romans 15 the singers and instrument players could still practice their diet but they could NOT bring their charismatic MUSICAL practices into the ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible--ONLY.

In fact, Ronnie Norman and all of those who begin the GUILT TRIP do not have a remote clue that Paul was EXCLUDING the marketplace practices FROM the ekklesia or school of the Bible. Now, Ronnie wants to IMPOSE HIS doubtful disputations on the OWNERS and force the total assembly to MAKE USE of that which Paul OUTLAWED. You don't have to be bright to be a

<font color=blue>Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.</font>

The three SECTS in Rome could be identified by where where they bought their food in the Agora or marketplace: The Orphics were bean eaters, the phythagorans had similar diet and the Dionysiacs were meat eaters and wine drinkers.

You IDENTIFIED them by their diet--mostly taken in the food stalls--but they were all highly addicted to singing and using musical instruments to AROUSE their feelings which Paul OUTLAWS for the ekklesia or School of the Bible in Romans 15.

The phythagorans: <font color=blue>They had a large number of superstitious abstinences and dos and don'ts. They abstained from beans, did not break bread, did not eat from a whole loaf, and did not eat the heart (of their sacrifices). Example superstitions, such as not touching a white cock, not stepping over a crossbar, not stirring a fire with an iron, not plucking a garland etc. are too tedious to list here but can be seen in Burnet (ibid., p. 96).

There is no doubt this concept was entirely religious and selective. They also viewed music and astronomy as sister sciences. They used music to purge the soul and medicine to purge the body. Such methods of purifying the soul were familiar in the Orgia of the Korybantes and thus explains the Pythagorean interest in Harmonics (Burnet, pp. 97-98).</font>

This is the PHARMAKIA or SORCERY in Revelation 18 speaking of singers, speakers and instrument players. Apollo or Apollyon who USED the muses as his musical worship team was the father of harmony, twanging the bowstring to send forth singing arrows, homosexual worship, thieves and liars. He claimed that MUSIC purged the Spirit through EXTERNAL MEANS.

Of the Dionysius meat eaters and wine drinkers.

<font color=blue">Instruments, especially flutes and drums, were used to induce ecstasy, or frenzy, in the worshippers of certain deities. The devotees of Thracian Dionysus (Bacchus) engaged in orgies at night. Members of the society were seized with a divine madness as they danced to the music and would seize an animal who was believed to be the incarnation of the god, tear the body limb from limb, and eat it on the spot. By this sacred communion theyhoped to attain union with their god and themselves become Baccoi . There was a wave of Bacchic enthusiasm that swept Italy in 185 B.C. and created such a scandal that it was sternly repressed by the Roman senate." (Green, William M., The Church Fathers and Musical Instruments" unpublished paper, p. 32).

"Dionysus certainly roves more than the other gods; the traditional picture of him is not one of him sitting sedately on Olympus sipping nectar and listening to the Muses (9 females) sing.

Rather it is one of him roaming through the wilderness,
thrysus (a {shaking} reed bound with ivy and topped with a pine cone) in hand,

followed by bands of ecstatic women, his Bacchants, and spreading the art of cultivation of vines and of wine-making. Other gods may leave Olympus, but it is not habitual with them as it is with dionysus. </font>

The CLERGY hoped that John the Baptist wore SOFT clothing but Jesus said he was not a SHAKEN REED: that is, he was not one of those homosexual, musical prophesiers who "bound the flesh and spirit together with homosexuality."

Here is a PICTURE of the Dionysiacs or "meat eaters and wine drinkers" Maybe this is a clue as to why they want to IMPOSE on decent people that which Paul outlawed in Romans 14 and Jesus outlawed when He cast out the musical minstrels like dung and consigned the "pipers, dancers and singers" to the MARKETPLACE:

<img src=http://www.piney.com/DionyMaen.jpg alt="" width="650">

This is why the hair stands up on the back of STRAIGHTS back and they FLEE Babylon. They may not realize that the MARK has been flashed but it is time for those with Spirit to not look back for their stolen property but run for their lives.

If Ronnie thinks Paul gave THESE people the permission to DOUBTFUL DISPUTE and bring on the REPROACHES he guards against then someone has a serious problem:

<font color=blue>Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Psa. 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me

2781. cherpah, kher-paw´; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda:—rebuke, reproach(-fully), shame.

2778. haraph, khaw-raf´; a primitive root; to pull off, i.e. (by implication) to expose (as by stripping); specifically, to betroth (as if a surrender); figuratively, to carp at, i.e. defame; denominative (from 2779) to spend the winter:--betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.</font>

There is doubt among early writers that Lucifer did Adam in by sodomy and promised to keep the same shameful act on Jesus. The literature and language of the Bible indicates that they MUSICALLY MOCKED Jesus to the Cross and sodomized Him.

The SELF pleasure specificially OUTLAWS all of the performing arts QUARANTINED to the marketplace which "create mental excitement" so that people can CARRY US AWAY which is the meaning of a HERETIC.

HERE IS WHAT IS OUTLAWED WHICH OUTLAWS RONNIE AND ALL OF HIS SHEPHERDING elders who, according to the Lynn Andersion DOGMA intends to "Strip the lambs of all of their secret thoughts

“Disputing” <font color=blue>implies a questioning mind and suggests an arrogant attitude by those who assume they’re always right. Arguing with others in the body of Christ is disruptive. That’s why Paul spent the first part of chapter 2 on humility.

As alluded to above, in the NT, dialogismos is used mainly in an evil sense describing reasoning that is the outcome of self-will. Here it describes reasoning of the natural mind in independence of God. In (see note Romans 1:21) it denotes the false notions about God, entertained in opposition to the facts revealed concerning Him in nature. We see this in Matthew's use...

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts (dialogismos), murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man." (Mt 15:19-20)</font>

More later but Paul is MARKING the people identified by their DIET in the marketplace as being EXCLUDED from the Ekklesia. The second major meaning of PSALLO identifies the polluted red rope used to DRIVE people from the Agora where the sold food, bodies, singing and playing instruments UP TO the PYNX (In Athens) to attend the EKKLESIA which was for VERBAL INSTRUCTION ONLY.

Therefore, as they usually TWIST Scripture, Romans 14-15 MARK Ronnie and his SHEPHERDING movement as NOT ABLE to participate up on the hill at the Ekklesia.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on June 2nd, 2008, 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe
Joe

May 11th, 2008, 2:19 pm #19

Ken: In this thread you did an excellence job of exposing the dark side of Ronnie Norman at First Colony, and the work of the other wolves feasting on the flock.
Charles: I hope Ken has helped you to wake up and try to stop Ronnie if you can. It sounds like he is to entrenched, your only option is to run.

To God be the Glory
Joe McKnight
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 12th, 2008, 3:43 am #20

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
<font style "arial" size="4">With all due respect I can find no evidence that most preachers using Romans 14 and STRETCHING it have any knowledge about the background to the conflict between the church and the CULTURE." Certain MORAL practices such as one's DIET which distinguished them in the marketplace and their observance of certain days did not disqualify them from friendship and ekklesia (church) attendance. After all, a true Church of Christ is an ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible--only--and with the Campbells this narrow definition allowed people of all PREFERENCES to attend.

However, beyond the MORAL and ETHICAL preferences, all of the sects in Rome were superstitious and highly addicted to "worship" where female (or effeminate) musicians aroused themselves and the "audience" to such a high pitch of sexual impulses" that it contributed to the destruction of society: this led the Roman Government to restrict the size of the assemblies and to daylight hours. They sold this musical enchantment John called sorcery as proof that they deserved the pay for bringing the gods down.

None of the worship PREFERENCES were allowed to "open a peep" when they came to the ekklesia for instruction in the Bible in order to make their weak faith stronger. To think that Romans 14 is the authority to DESTROY the peace and let the DOUBTFUL DISPUTERS take over the church seems truly beyond redemption.

After listening to Ronnie Norman's sermon I have posted a further review of Romans 14 to include some background.

<a href="http://www.piney.com/Norman.Romans.14.html</a" target="_new">http://www.piney.com/Norman.Romans.14.html</a>

Rather than accepting the assistance of the musical minstrel PREFERENCE He tossed them out "more or less violently" as one ejects dung. He consigned these same Dionysiacs part of the Abomination of Desolation as pipers, singers and dancers BACK to the marketplace where all pollutions belonged. The claim to be Market Driving is troubling. I will clean up these notes in time but I just heard the sermon yesterday.</font>

<img src=http://www.piney.com/Romans14A.gif alt="" width="650">
<img src=http://www.piney.com/Romans14B.gif alt="" width="650">
<img src=http://www.piney.com/Romans14C.gif alt="" width="650">
<img src=http://www.piney.com/Romans14D.gif alt="" width="650">
<img src=http://www.piney.com/Romans14E.gif alt="" width="650">
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on June 2nd, 2008, 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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