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Behold, the simplicity of the Holy Word-Psalm 108 (KJV)Ray denies that the SPIRIT OF CHRIST commanded the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness. The SPIRITUAL thread speaks only of Abraham, Moses and the PROPHETS. The kings were given in God's ANGER and taken away in His anger to carry out the captivity and death sentence imposed because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai:
Acts 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge?
......the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer
......by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
Acts 7:36 He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt,
......and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel,
......A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me;
......him shall ye hear.
Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness
......with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina,
......and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
The Spirit of Christ OUTLAWED "vocal and instrumental rejoicing" when the Qahal, synagotue or church in the wilderness assembled." How many times does it take?
Number 57 is NOT a Psalm and therefore not suitable for use as a TEACHING PSALM. It is a: There are only 50 true Psalms not restricted and NONE of them include instruments. #4387 is Miktam 57:
4387. miktam, mik-tawm´; from 3799; an engraving, i.e. (techn.) a poem:Michtam.
3799. katham, kaw-tham´; a primitive root; properly, to carve or engrave, i.e. (by implication) to inscribe indelibly:mark.
1Sam. 21:13 And he changed his behaviour before them,
......and feigned himself mad in their hands,
......and scrabbled on the doors of the gate,
......and let his spittle fall down upon his beard.
This scrabble has the same meaning.8427. tavah, taw-vaw´; a primitive root; to mark out, i.e. (primitive) scratch or (definite) imprint:scrabble, set (a mark)
In many of the ancient documents from Babylon and other nations, the gods were believed to be inside of musical instruments which were made into the form of a bull (harp). The sounds of the strings was sold to be the voice of the god inside of the idols which even had "speaking tubes" so the manipulator could "discover" the needs of the worshipper and have the idol speak the answer to them (This was before radio).
Awake, my soul! Awake, harp and lyre! I will awaken the dawn. Psalm 57:8
However, Habakkuk pronounced:
Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it. Habakkuk 2:19
But the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him. Habakkuk 2:20
DAVID'S AROUSERS: don't get upset: God turned Israel over to worship the starry host.
"In an inscription from Cyprus, in one from Rhodes and in several from around the district of Carthage, there are references to important personages who bear the title Mqm'lm which we can translate as AROUSERS of the god.'" (de Vaux, Roland, The Bible and the Ancient Near East, Doubleday, p. 247).
"We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain Levites, called me'oreim, 'AROUSERS,' sang (every morning?) this verse from "Ps 44:23: "Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever." The Talmud tells us that John Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom." (Roland de Vaux, p. 247).
Soothsayers: Anan (h6049) aw-nan'; a prim. root; to cover; used only as denom. from 6051, to cloud over; fig. to act covertly, i. e. practise magic: - * bring, enchanter, Meonemin, observer of times, soothsayer, sorcerer.
THE KING, KINGDOM, TEMPLE ETC WERE TURNED OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE RELIGIOUS PRCTICES OF THE ISRAELITE TEMPLE-STATE WHICH IS NOT EXACTLY LIKE THAT OF THE OTHER NATIONS SUCH AS BABLON. THAT IS WHAT THEY PRAYED FOR AND WHAT GOD GAVE THEM.
Under "Star Worship" the Jewish Encyclopedia states:
"Star Worship" is perhaps the oldest form of idolatry practiced by the ancients. The observation of the stars in the East very early led the people to regard the planets [wandering stars] and the fixed stars as gods. The religion of the ancient Egyptians is known to have consisted preeminently of Sun-worship. Moses sternly warned the Israelites against worshipping the Sun, Moon, stars, and all the hosts of heaven (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:3). The Israelites fell into this kind of idolatry and as early as the time of Amos they had the images of Siccuth and Chium, 'the stars of their god' (Amos 5:26); the latter name is generally supposed to denote the planet Saturn.  That the Kingdom of Israel fell earlier than that of Judah is stated (II Kings 17:16) to have been due, among other causes, to its worshipping the host of heaven.
But the Kingdom of Judah in its later period seems to have outdone the Northern Kingdom [Israel] in star-worship." Of Manasseh it is related that he built altars to all the hosts of heaven in the two courts of the house of YHWY, and it seems it was the practice of even Kings before him to appoint priests who offered sacrifices to the Sun, the Moon, the planets, and all the hosts of heaven. Altars for star-worship were built on the roofs of the houses, and horses and chariots were dedicated to the worship of the Sun. (II Kings 21:5; 23:4-5, 11-12) Star-worship continued in Judah until the 18th year of Josiah's reign (621 B.C.) when the King took measures to abolish all kinds of idolatry. But although star-worship was then abolished as a public cult, it was practiced privately by individuals who worshipped the heavenly bodies, and poured out libations to them on the roofs of their houses (Zephaniah 1:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13) Jeremiah, who prophesied in the sixth year of the captivity of Jehoiachin (591 B.C.) describes the worship of the Sun as practiced in the court of the Temple (Ezekiel 8:16) and that even after the destruction of the Temple the women insisted on continuing to worship the Queen of Heaven.
"The ancient Hebrews, being nomads like the Arabs, favored the Moon, while the Babylonians, who were an agricultural nation, preferred the Sun. But, as appears from Ezekiel 20:7-8 the Moon-worship of the Israelites, even while they were still in Egypt was combined with Sun-worship."
That means that ALL of those who have been led by the nose [in all the wrong places] by the NACC and their change agents have lied about every passage in the Bible and have been wittingly or HALF-wittingly tried to TAKE YOU CAPTIVE to the same MOTHER OF HARLOTS (Rev 17) who uses lusted after FRUITS as slick speakers, singers and instrument players whom John and all known evidence identifies as SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world. She/he/it began in the garden of Eden as the singing and harp playing prostitute. You had better FLEE BABYLON if it is not too late: the Bible, the Book of Enoch and common knowledges knows that once you have been forced to make the MUSIC IS WORSHIP CONNECTION you are hard wired and your PURPOSE DRIVEN life is to try to seduce everyone else to give you aid and comfort because you know your fate.
Jesus cast the musical minstrels OUT like dung and marked the MEN of that generation (race of vipers) as belonging to the marketplace with the pipers, singers and dancers where they sold radishes, sermons, young "chorus leaders" and whatever your heart lusted after. Jesus as the Alpha and Omega wrote Revelation 17-18 which probably shows that by the time you hear the MUSIC in the "holy places" your LAMPSTAND was removed by Jesus on His last visit: in the conclusion about the musical people in Amos God says "I will not pass this way again."
1. Christ OUTLAWED vocal and instrumental rejoicing for the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness: the word TRIUMPH OVER or ALARM is what you produce when you MAKE MUSIC which destroys the ability to hold school of the Bible--only.Alan wrote: Since Donnie and Joe know so much more regarding the doctrine of Christ than anyone else, I was just wondering if they could tell exactly what verses that Jesus spoke in regards to not having instrumental music.
Please be specific. I want to be able to open a KJV, that this site promotes as the only reliable translation, and read where Jesus says, "Do not use instrumental music in your worship service." I would also like to read where he says, "You are to have a song, a prayer, three more songs, communion, another song, the sermon, and and invitation song."
This site is just so knowledgable, I know you can find it.
Alan, it is time to recycle some BASICS as in summer training camp: lets begin: "THIS is a baseball." It is well documented in the Bible and especially the Greek literature that people use music as SORCERY and so says John in Revelation 18). The only LEGALISM word I can find is the Greek NOMOS: that speaks of HUMAN MADE laws which are made to CHARM or enchant the citizens into submission so that no one will dare question the LAW MAKERS. If you say that THERE IS NOTHING repudiating instruments in the Bible and nothing commanding them then it is CERTAIN that the very late use of music in the "church" is a NOMOS which usually applied to Apollo (Abaddon, Apollon" and his MUSES (Rev 18) who were dirty adulteresses.
Maybe if you grasped that it was the Spirit of Christ who commanded the Holy Convocation for the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness. It was INCLUSIVE of Rest, reading and rehearsing the Word. They were restricted to their own precincts to prevent them from attending the Seventh day paganism which originated in Babylon along with the tithe. It was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing. That command was never rescinded and never violated by the SPIRITUAL THREAD off Israel who were QUARANTINED from the sacrificial or exorcism noise (never music) when they warriors "made the lambs dumb before the slaughter.
I need to begin there, but here is a bit of information and REMEMBER that when you say that Jesus didn't CONDEMN the use of instruments you are gambling your soul on people who cannot DEFINE words. You have the duty to define words before you DELIBERATELY sow discord and offend many. If you cannot FIND the clear evidence then I submit that you have not yet become a disciple with A holy spirit or A good conscience, consciousness or a co-perception of the Word
You will remember that Jesus spoke to the false Jews in parables by which truth had been hidden from the foundation of the world. The easiest way to hide the truth in plain sight is to "translate" the Bible "using different words for a pleasing variety" even says the KJV people. This makes it easy to further pervert or corrupt the word meaning "selling learning at retail" by defining words and context to make it POWERFUL in trying to manipulate people's minds: this is called witchcraft or sorcery by John speaking of speakers, singers and instrument players who refuse to "sing that which is written" with one mind and one mouth and to "teach that which has been taught." It is a plot by God who needs no wimpy burgers.
John refused to baptize the dominant clergy class and called them a generation or RACE of vipers. During the curse of the sacrificial system the "instruments" of the warrior classes bearing Canaanite guild names were sounded (not music) during the burning of the GOATS which were sacrificed to prevent sacrificing TO THE GOATS defined in Greek as the CAPELLA from which we get the sad tragedy songs by the a capellas.
Peter told the people to SAVE YOURSELVES from this CROOKED RACE. Crooked is opposite to the orthodox: MYTHS always written by poets and musicians who could never write truth.
Skolios A. curved, bent (opposite to orthos, euthus) muthos
III. skolion, to, intestine, splanchana kai nephron kai skolion
Muthos used with tragoidia, mimesis, poetes etc. Latin fabula II. In partic. (freq. and class.), a fictitious narrative, a tale, story; 1. Most freq., a dramatic poem, drama, play; tragôidia, mimêsis, poiêtês, ; muthoisin skoliois Hes.Op.194
2. fiction (opposite logos, historic truth), Pi.O.1.29 (pl.), N.7.23 (pl.), Pl.Phd.61b, Prt.320c, 324d, etc.
Don't miss the point that the VIPER GENERATION from Cain (meaning a musical note) murdered Seth:
Matt 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Matt 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Matt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matt 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you
........prophets, and wise men, and scribes:
........and some of them ye shall kill and crucify;
........and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues,
........and persecute them from city to city:
Matt 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,
........from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias,
........whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Because Jesus warned about parables from the foundation of the world, don't miss the point that the Bible is the history of the Hebrew people and that they existed at the time of Cain: cain is said to be OF that wicked one and Eve was wholly seduced in a sexual sense enabled by music. More later.
Rev. 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
they claim they are Jews #2453 Ioudas - Judas; in Hebrew 3063 - Yehudah - a descendant of Judah. The paid their way into the Herodian ruling class. The Saducean priesthood during the first century were not of Aaron but consisted of four families: Boethus, Hanan, Kimchit, and Phiabi. They intermarried with the Herodians, the Royal Rulers of the State of Israel, who were, themselves Edomites (Idumeans) from the Petra region (or Edom) and descendants of Esau (or Seir, which means "shaggy, he-goat, devil"), thus the "synagogue of Satan" leaders claimed to be Jews but were Edomites appointed by the Herodian rulers under Rome; Herod Antipas, for instance, and Pontius Pilate held the same governmental position for Rome, the reason for much rivalry between them); since Esau was "red and hairy" his nickname was Edom, and he lived in Seir where Ham's descendants settled.
As such they "wore the hat of Hermes" from which the musical discorders get the new hermeneutic. You might want to see how this was music and sex as the abomination of desolation" in the Jerusalem temple: some were still active and tried to seduce Jesus shown when He called the MEN of that generation like CHILDREN which identified the "youth ministers" or chorus leaders used and abused: He consigned the pipers, singers and dancers to the marketplace where all pagan and perverted worship took place.
So we might circle back to the beginning in Genesis where the meaning of SERPENT is "a musical enchanter(ess)." The king/queen of Tyre used music to steal property and the "souls of men" and is called the "singing and harp playing prostitute." Now, only a legalist would look for a LAW OF SILENCE (invented by the musical group) which says "thou shalt not play the musical prostitute." Stinkty or slithering animals are symbols of the enemies of the Words of God.
The serpent is related to brass and the flute which is lumped with pollute and prostitute as the meaning of when "men began to CALL upon the name of the Lord."
Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth:
........For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Gen. 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos:
........then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
582. enowsh, en-oshe´; from 605; properly, a mortal (and thus differing from the more dignified 120); hence, a man in general (singly or collectively):--another, x (blood-)thirsty, certain, chap(-man); divers, fellow, x in the flower of their age, husband, (certain, mortal) man, people, person, servant, some (x of them), + stranger, those, + their trade. It is often unexpressed in the English versions, especially when used in apposition with another word . Compare 376.
605. Anash, aw-nash´; a primitive root; to be frail, feeble, or (figuratively) melancholy:--desperate(-ly wicked), incurable, sick, woeful.
It was in this "generation" that false worship began. We know that Jubal "handled" musical instruments meaning "without authority.." When men FALL from grace it is always caused or MARKED by the use of music. What better supernatural sign of false prophets? The meaning of "began to call upon the name of the Lord" was how the Israelites--given The Book of The covenant of grace, ROSE up to play in musical idolatry. This was PROFANING the sabbath which was REST FROM the pagan seventh day worship rituals marked by music to ENCHANT or TRANQUALIZE the common fodder. This word is h2490 identical to David's "praise" word which means to MAKE SELF VILE which is the root word for LUCIFER the singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden."This word is used of "Lucifer being cast as profane out of Heaven" and the equivalent word when Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG.
This word is used interchangeably as a "melody" word and normally marked women or male prostitute who prowled around all pagan-like temples of which that in Jerusalem was identified when God "turned them over to worship the starry host."
5059. nagan, naw-gan´; a primitive root; properly, to thrum, i.e. beat a tune with the fingers; expec. to play on a stringed instrument; hence (generally), to make music:--player on instruments, sing to the stringed instruments, melody, ministrel, play(-er, -ing).
Which points to the TOUCH word used by Eve when she was seduced or enchanted by the "serpent" as the name of the Assyrian Enchanter called "the tallest tree in Eden" of which she was seduced but Adam "ate" from the midst willingly.
5060. naga, naw-gah´; a primitive root; properly, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman); by implication, to reach (figuratively, to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.):--beat, (x be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.
Verse 26. Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.] The marginal reading is, Then began men to call themselves by the name of the Lord; which words are supposed to signify that in the time of Enos the true followers of God began to distinguish themselves, and to be distinguished by others, by the appellation of sons of God; those of the other branch of Adam's family, among whom the Divine worship was not observed, being distinguished by the name, children of men. It must not be dissembled that many eminent men have contended that ljwh huchal, which we translate began, should be rendered began profanely, or then profanation began, and from this time they date the origin of idolatry. Most of the Jewish doctors were of this opinion, and Maimonides has discussed it at some length in his Treatise on Idolatry; as this piece is curious, and gives the most probable account of the origin and progress of idolatry, I shall insert it here.
You will remember the false conclusions: Because God created musical Instruments (Bible says Satan did) it is right and proper for us to use ANYTHING that God created in our worship to him. The problem is that you worship the CREATURE and not the CREATOR. Now, see how the earliest recorded commentary uses the same imagination even when "the imagination of the human hear is only evil continually."
"In the days of Enos the sons of Adam erred with great error, and the counsel of the wise men of that age became brutish, and Enos himself was (one) of them that erred; and their error was this:
........they said, Forasmuch as God hath created these stars and spheres
........to govern the world, and set them on high, and imparted honour unto them,
........and they are ministers that minister before him;
........it is meet that men should laud, and glorify, and give them honour.
For this is the will of God, that we magnify and honour whomsoever he magnifieth and honouret; even as a king would have them honoured that stand before him, and this is the honour of the king himself. When this thing was come up into their hearts they began to build temples unto the stars, and to offer sacrifice unto them, and to laud and glorify them with words, and to worship before them, that they might in their evil opinion obtain favour of the Creator; and this was the root of idolatry, &c.
And in process of time there stood up false prophets among the sons of Adam, which said that God had commanded and said unto them, Worship such a star, or all the stars, and do sacrifice unto them thus and thus; and build a temple for it, and make an image of it, that all the people, women, and children may worship it.
........And the false prophet showed them the image
........which he had feigned out of his own heart,
........and said it was the image of such a star,
........which was made known unto him by prophecy.
And they began after this manner to make images in temples, and under trees, and on tops of mountains and hills, and assembled together and worshipped them, &c. And this thing was spread through all the world, to serve images with services different one from another, and to sacrifice unto and worship them.
........So, in process of time, the glorious and fearful name (of God)
........was forgotten out of the mouth of all living,
........and out of their knowledge, and they acknowledged him not.
And there was found no people on the earth that knew aught, save images of wood and stone, and temples of stone, which they had been trained up from their childhood to worship and serve, and to swear by their names. And the wise men that were among them, as the priests and such like, thought there was no God save the stars and spheres, for whose sake and in whose likeness they had made these images; but as for the Rock everlasting,
there was no man that acknowledged him or knew him save a few persons in the world, as Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Sham, and Heber. And in this way did the world walk and converse till that pillar of the world, Abraham our father, was born." Maim. in Mishn, and Ainsworth in loco.
Moses was writing an inverted version of the Babylon legends used as worship where God had sentenced Israel because of musical idolatry. In the end time worship (now) the same enchanters are used by the Babylon mother of harlot: they are the same lusted after "fruits" spoken of by Amos and as speakers, singers and instrument players they are called SORCERERS. The sound of the millstone was always the way to find the GRINDERS who spread their legs and the "piping sounds" made by the grinding advertised their second occupation.
I will follow up quickly.
PART Two response.I found your response interesting. Honestly a bit offensive at times but it's ok no big deal. I think your description of instrumental worship as "emotional masturbation" excessive but nevertheless I can agree with you in some ways. Music, be it secular or in church, can be emotionally manipulative. I find often times in churches I visit that music is idolized. People worry so much about the quality of sound or getting just the right mood that the Holy Spirit gets lost in the shuffle. These, however, are human faults in using music in worship. I believe music is a terrific gift from God and when employed properly with an attitude of humility to God it can be a tremendous blessing to people and Jesus Himself.
That being said I'd like to engage in some friendly dialogue on a few Scriptures. I'm curious to know what your interpretation is.
The first topic is King David and his use of instruments in worship. David himself was described as a man after God's own heart and was also a skilled harp player. "Whenever the spirit from God came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him." -1 Samuel 16:22-24
I'm also curious about your thoughts on the 288 Levite musicians David employed for worship. (1 Chronicles 25:1-7)
The third passage is a story from the life of Elisha in which he calls for a musician in order to focus his mind and heart in a worshipful attitude that God honors. "But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the LORD came upon him." -2 Kings 3:15
Finally, I'm wanting to know your interpretation on a text out of Revelation. "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." -Revelation 5:7-10
To me this verse at most strongly indicates that instrumental worship occurs in heaven and the least John doesn't look poorly upon the use of instruments in worship.
Anyways, hope to hear from you soon...
In His Love,