Seiko 7s26B vs 7s26A - Seiko read this!

Seiko 7s26B vs 7s26A - Seiko read this!

Joined: March 17th, 2006, 11:15 pm

February 21st, 2010, 12:21 am #1

I know a lot of people want the 7s26B movement. It's newer, and yes, it runs more accurate.

Now I am selling "a few" Seiko watches, and I am also doing the service requests.

And I am NOT happy with the 7s26B.

O yes, it runs more accurate when it comes out of the factory. Seiko has realized that spending more time regulating movement is a good thing.
But what happens when you hit a nail with a hammer, wearing your beloved Seiko automatic watch with 7s26B movement.
Most of the times... nothing.
But a lot of times, it suddenly runs quicker.
Not a bit, no, minutes a day

What happens:

aaargh!
I ask the customer to tap his/her watch in the palm of his/her hand, face down. Only once or twice and not with too much force.
Fortunaly enough that little bit of force will free the spring and the problem is "fixed".

Now the 7s26A movement:


Here there is much less space for the spring to get stuk. The part where it can get stuck is about half of the length of the pin in the 7s26B movement. I could not quit capture it, but the lower side is also not straight. So if the spring get behind is, it will not get stuck there. Only a little part in the middle could "catch" the spring.

Please my friends from Seiko... fix this!!
Change the pin in the 7s26B movement, please....!!
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Joined: February 5th, 2007, 5:17 pm

February 21st, 2010, 1:20 am #2

It was an Orient 1969 vintage But I wound up Braking the Spring Coil Working trying to Hold a Loupe w/ my Big Paws was a Disaster OFF to PETE

You seem to be braking out with more services and WATCHES besides Parts. Thank you for the 6105 Bezel opportunity You Made a Good Number of us very happy Clayton Tiger John and??
and I will never forget that when you had the Opportunity to Hit Hard Price Wise , Not that I see anything wrong with that at all You instead Felt
I would like to Sell these see these get to as many SCWFers as possible and IMO at close to Half Price. You and Francisco In My Life anyway Really did the RARE thing Sold a SOUGHT after 6105 Bezel for Half Price.

To me That will always Stand for Who you are as a Man. a Wis Thank you Things like that don't go forgotten, Not for me anyway
Russell I

Russell Anthany Iadanza
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Joined: March 17th, 2006, 11:15 pm

February 21st, 2010, 1:52 am #3

I understand the present did work out

I could not tell you, so i made up a story about a 7005-bezel to you ...

I do have a retainer ring for your 6105-8000 bezel, will send it off with some other stuff for you.
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Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:43 pm

February 21st, 2010, 2:07 am #4

It was an Orient 1969 vintage But I wound up Braking the Spring Coil Working trying to Hold a Loupe w/ my Big Paws was a Disaster OFF to PETE

You seem to be braking out with more services and WATCHES besides Parts. Thank you for the 6105 Bezel opportunity You Made a Good Number of us very happy Clayton Tiger John and??
and I will never forget that when you had the Opportunity to Hit Hard Price Wise , Not that I see anything wrong with that at all You instead Felt
I would like to Sell these see these get to as many SCWFers as possible and IMO at close to Half Price. You and Francisco In My Life anyway Really did the RARE thing Sold a SOUGHT after 6105 Bezel for Half Price.

To me That will always Stand for Who you are as a Man. a Wis Thank you Things like that don't go forgotten, Not for me anyway
Russell I

Russell Anthany Iadanza
never have believed that i would get one (8000 NOS Bezel) at a price i could afford, thank you, i now look at it but dare not put it on my project 8000 yet, as i will wear it regular when completed and i don't want to mark it just yet ha ha



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Joined: October 9th, 2004, 4:32 pm

February 21st, 2010, 4:18 am #5

I know a lot of people want the 7s26B movement. It's newer, and yes, it runs more accurate.

Now I am selling "a few" Seiko watches, and I am also doing the service requests.

And I am NOT happy with the 7s26B.

O yes, it runs more accurate when it comes out of the factory. Seiko has realized that spending more time regulating movement is a good thing.
But what happens when you hit a nail with a hammer, wearing your beloved Seiko automatic watch with 7s26B movement.
Most of the times... nothing.
But a lot of times, it suddenly runs quicker.
Not a bit, no, minutes a day

What happens:

aaargh!
I ask the customer to tap his/her watch in the palm of his/her hand, face down. Only once or twice and not with too much force.
Fortunaly enough that little bit of force will free the spring and the problem is "fixed".

Now the 7s26A movement:


Here there is much less space for the spring to get stuk. The part where it can get stuck is about half of the length of the pin in the 7s26B movement. I could not quit capture it, but the lower side is also not straight. So if the spring get behind is, it will not get stuck there. Only a little part in the middle could "catch" the spring.

Please my friends from Seiko... fix this!!
Change the pin in the 7s26B movement, please....!!
The stud and regulator pin system used in the 7S26B is very similar to the Etachron system, used in most common ETA calibers for years now (which can also be much more easily adjusted than traditional regulator systems- a marked advantage of the 7S26B). You can see the same thing happen with these ETA calibers, but I do not fault the manufacturer so much as the user (in either case). The amount of force necessary to shift the body of the hairspring enough so that it will catch on the outside of the regulator pins is truly great, and while I don't doubt that you have had your fair share of headaches because of it, I don't know if decrying Seiko openly in public is warranted (I remember you mentioning this a few months ago, too). I'd tend to decry those owners who subjected their timepiece to such treatment.

There is a safeguard designed into the regulator pin design in the 7S26B to avoid the reg. sweep of the hairspring (the outer most portion of the hairspring that goes in between the reg. pins) from jumping out of place (and also the body jumping into the reg pins when a shock is delivered)- notice the small perpendicular tips at the end of the reg pins:


The reg. pins are designed to be rotated in order to minimize the amount of play the hairspring has between them, which is key in obtaining the best possible timekeeping throughout the largest range of amplitude and positions. Here the pins at their fully widest rotation, allowing one to remove the balance and hairspring (not centered between the pins in this photo by the way) from the balance bridge if necessary:


You can imagine that in this position of fully open, it might be easy for the body of the hairspring to be caught in between the reg pins if a large shock in the correct orientation is received, but look at what happens when the pins are rotated to a more normal position, where they are almost pinching the reg sweep of the hairspring, but not quite (just a little breathing room):


It should now be much harder for the body of the hairspring to jump into the slot, because now the slot is not parallel to the hairspring- in fact I cannot really imagine the body being caught in this slot if the pins are properly closed- is it possible that the body of the spring is catching all the way on the outside of the reg pins in the cases you have seen? Have you noticed how closed the pins are rotated in these cases? If not closed enough, then I certainly could see the body getting caught in the slot- with a shock. As you can see here- that is a phenomenal amount of movement by the hairspring body- and would thusly be caused by a phenomenal amount of shock:


Again, I don't deny your problem, Rob, and while I sympathize (a lot of my day is spent undoing the actions of others against their timepeices), I don't know that Seiko should be receiving full blame for a faulty design or materials. The hairspring has to be a certain size and thickness to allow the watch to run properly, and a side-effect of this is that a massive shock to the watch can cause the hairspring to be shifted outside of it's normal oscillations. I don't think this makes the watch any less robust than it should be, if you want a watch that you can throw against a wall, buy a tennis ball, you have no place owning a timepiece, that's what I always say

--Noah R.
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Joined: April 23rd, 2006, 3:31 am

February 21st, 2010, 4:29 am #6

I know a lot of people want the 7s26B movement. It's newer, and yes, it runs more accurate.

Now I am selling "a few" Seiko watches, and I am also doing the service requests.

And I am NOT happy with the 7s26B.

O yes, it runs more accurate when it comes out of the factory. Seiko has realized that spending more time regulating movement is a good thing.
But what happens when you hit a nail with a hammer, wearing your beloved Seiko automatic watch with 7s26B movement.
Most of the times... nothing.
But a lot of times, it suddenly runs quicker.
Not a bit, no, minutes a day

What happens:

aaargh!
I ask the customer to tap his/her watch in the palm of his/her hand, face down. Only once or twice and not with too much force.
Fortunaly enough that little bit of force will free the spring and the problem is "fixed".

Now the 7s26A movement:


Here there is much less space for the spring to get stuk. The part where it can get stuck is about half of the length of the pin in the 7s26B movement. I could not quit capture it, but the lower side is also not straight. So if the spring get behind is, it will not get stuck there. Only a little part in the middle could "catch" the spring.

Please my friends from Seiko... fix this!!
Change the pin in the 7s26B movement, please....!!
...for a "disposable" movement.

But, an interesting report of the flaw. Thanks.
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Joined: October 29th, 2009, 4:06 pm

February 21st, 2010, 12:01 pm #7

I know a lot of people want the 7s26B movement. It's newer, and yes, it runs more accurate.

Now I am selling "a few" Seiko watches, and I am also doing the service requests.

And I am NOT happy with the 7s26B.

O yes, it runs more accurate when it comes out of the factory. Seiko has realized that spending more time regulating movement is a good thing.
But what happens when you hit a nail with a hammer, wearing your beloved Seiko automatic watch with 7s26B movement.
Most of the times... nothing.
But a lot of times, it suddenly runs quicker.
Not a bit, no, minutes a day

What happens:

aaargh!
I ask the customer to tap his/her watch in the palm of his/her hand, face down. Only once or twice and not with too much force.
Fortunaly enough that little bit of force will free the spring and the problem is "fixed".

Now the 7s26A movement:


Here there is much less space for the spring to get stuk. The part where it can get stuck is about half of the length of the pin in the 7s26B movement. I could not quit capture it, but the lower side is also not straight. So if the spring get behind is, it will not get stuck there. Only a little part in the middle could "catch" the spring.

Please my friends from Seiko... fix this!!
Change the pin in the 7s26B movement, please....!!
I no longer buy Seiko automatics with the 7S movement. I have since moved to the newer and better 4R16A day/date, and the vaunted 6R15B hack/handwind.

I used to have a Seiko S-Wave SKX247 with the 7S26A from 1997 and it was very accurate. That movement has Japan assembly.
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Joined: March 24th, 2007, 11:47 pm

February 21st, 2010, 2:06 pm #8

I know a lot of people want the 7s26B movement. It's newer, and yes, it runs more accurate.

Now I am selling "a few" Seiko watches, and I am also doing the service requests.

And I am NOT happy with the 7s26B.

O yes, it runs more accurate when it comes out of the factory. Seiko has realized that spending more time regulating movement is a good thing.
But what happens when you hit a nail with a hammer, wearing your beloved Seiko automatic watch with 7s26B movement.
Most of the times... nothing.
But a lot of times, it suddenly runs quicker.
Not a bit, no, minutes a day

What happens:

aaargh!
I ask the customer to tap his/her watch in the palm of his/her hand, face down. Only once or twice and not with too much force.
Fortunaly enough that little bit of force will free the spring and the problem is "fixed".

Now the 7s26A movement:


Here there is much less space for the spring to get stuk. The part where it can get stuck is about half of the length of the pin in the 7s26B movement. I could not quit capture it, but the lower side is also not straight. So if the spring get behind is, it will not get stuck there. Only a little part in the middle could "catch" the spring.

Please my friends from Seiko... fix this!!
Change the pin in the 7s26B movement, please....!!
When Hammering the G forces on the watch are pretty high, you are describing something that most will not do unless they are left handed or they wear a watch on the right wrist. I and most right handed people hammer with right hand and wear the watch on the left wrist.

The shock resistant part of the Seiko time piece is resistant not proof.

I do not suggest wearing a mechanical watch when doing such activities

Do you think you would test this with a $5,000 Rolex? What makes a Seiko any different? Just because a watch is only a $100 or so does not make it cheap and just because its durable does not make it indestructible.

I know WIS like to take watches to extreme, but I'm not sure when you do there is a real design flaw?

Just my thoughts.
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Joined: October 9th, 2004, 4:32 pm

February 21st, 2010, 2:35 pm #9

I no longer buy Seiko automatics with the 7S movement. I have since moved to the newer and better 4R16A day/date, and the vaunted 6R15B hack/handwind.

I used to have a Seiko S-Wave SKX247 with the 7S26A from 1997 and it was very accurate. That movement has Japan assembly.
nt
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Joined: June 19th, 2009, 6:51 pm

February 21st, 2010, 4:20 pm #10

The stud and regulator pin system used in the 7S26B is very similar to the Etachron system, used in most common ETA calibers for years now (which can also be much more easily adjusted than traditional regulator systems- a marked advantage of the 7S26B). You can see the same thing happen with these ETA calibers, but I do not fault the manufacturer so much as the user (in either case). The amount of force necessary to shift the body of the hairspring enough so that it will catch on the outside of the regulator pins is truly great, and while I don't doubt that you have had your fair share of headaches because of it, I don't know if decrying Seiko openly in public is warranted (I remember you mentioning this a few months ago, too). I'd tend to decry those owners who subjected their timepiece to such treatment.

There is a safeguard designed into the regulator pin design in the 7S26B to avoid the reg. sweep of the hairspring (the outer most portion of the hairspring that goes in between the reg. pins) from jumping out of place (and also the body jumping into the reg pins when a shock is delivered)- notice the small perpendicular tips at the end of the reg pins:


The reg. pins are designed to be rotated in order to minimize the amount of play the hairspring has between them, which is key in obtaining the best possible timekeeping throughout the largest range of amplitude and positions. Here the pins at their fully widest rotation, allowing one to remove the balance and hairspring (not centered between the pins in this photo by the way) from the balance bridge if necessary:


You can imagine that in this position of fully open, it might be easy for the body of the hairspring to be caught in between the reg pins if a large shock in the correct orientation is received, but look at what happens when the pins are rotated to a more normal position, where they are almost pinching the reg sweep of the hairspring, but not quite (just a little breathing room):


It should now be much harder for the body of the hairspring to jump into the slot, because now the slot is not parallel to the hairspring- in fact I cannot really imagine the body being caught in this slot if the pins are properly closed- is it possible that the body of the spring is catching all the way on the outside of the reg pins in the cases you have seen? Have you noticed how closed the pins are rotated in these cases? If not closed enough, then I certainly could see the body getting caught in the slot- with a shock. As you can see here- that is a phenomenal amount of movement by the hairspring body- and would thusly be caused by a phenomenal amount of shock:


Again, I don't deny your problem, Rob, and while I sympathize (a lot of my day is spent undoing the actions of others against their timepeices), I don't know that Seiko should be receiving full blame for a faulty design or materials. The hairspring has to be a certain size and thickness to allow the watch to run properly, and a side-effect of this is that a massive shock to the watch can cause the hairspring to be shifted outside of it's normal oscillations. I don't think this makes the watch any less robust than it should be, if you want a watch that you can throw against a wall, buy a tennis ball, you have no place owning a timepiece, that's what I always say

--Noah R.
They should pretty much dispel any ideas of flaws in the design.

For what it's worth; a year or so ago on another forum; there was a rash of these kinds of problems showing up with Monsters and some other models. Most of them had been dropped, banged against door frames or subjected to horrendous G-forces from activities like golf, mountain bike ridding and tennis.

Some of those watches even had the older 7s26A movements...all were easily corrected.

Given the newer materials and the much improved balance system I would go for a 'B' over an 'A' any time

------------------------------------------

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