SA Inc site down into Day 2... No reports yet.

SA Inc site down into Day 2... No reports yet.

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 14th, 2004, 12:15 pm #1

[+] Boca Raton local news this morning doesn't have anything on last night's council meeting.

There's nothing on Cryonet, this morning, about how the meeting went.

[+] I can't read the Boca Raton city council minutes yet because I don't have a PDF reader. If you, the reader do, then can click here and possibly get the scoop.
Last edited by recreation on January 14th, 2004, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 14th, 2004, 1:32 pm #2

[+ Palm Beach Post reports, this morning, that SA was "deep sixed" at the city council meeting last night. Council chambers were "filled to capacity" with cryonics supporters and animal rights activists. The meeting lasted 2 hours.

There was no indication that David Shumaker used the CI situation with Michigan as an example of how things could work in Boca Raton. I thought that that was going to be instrumental in his pitch since he already knew the city council was likely to vote against SA last November. The new CI situation would have been new information for the Boca council to consider. Apparently my guess was wrong. SA was not offering to become a mortuary. It DOES appear, however, that the SA plan was rejected "because city zoning wouldn't allow it". This suggests that the zoning might have required SA to be a mortuary.

On the SA Inc site, an introductory article makes the point the the medical school of Florida Atlantic University is nearby. I would have liked to have seen cryonics, as a discipline, associate itself with a university at some point. Surely, FAU does some research and surely some research involves animal models. Perhaps SA ought to turn it's attention to a pitch to FAU to begin a school of cryobiological/cryonics studies as part of the medical school. The SA lab and for-profit situation could then be spun off from the university department. OF course, I'm simply blue-skying it for the moment. This sort of plan is probaby highly unrealistic.

The question does occur to me, however, in relation to SA's situation, as to what kind of a cryonics operation it was going to be. Since the Boca council rejected SA based on the fact that "city zoning wouldn't allow it", you have to wonder what it was, EXACTLY, about SA that city zoning could not accomodate. It seems to me that it could have been the fact that SA was not a "mortuary". If SA WERE a mortuary, then it may have stood the same type of test as CI just did as a cemetery. This is pure speculation on my part, though I'm basing it on disjointed memory of some articles about the situation I've read.

The SA Inc website, even though it's been "suspended" (and it's still suspended at this hour), can be reached by a deep link to a cached set of pages available through Google cache. I double checked it and it's apparent to me that no part of the SA Inc corporate structure involves any sort of Uniform Anatomical Gift Act or any Florida version of it. It may very well be, then, that Alcor is the ONLY cryonics situation where that status has been attained. One is left to wonder if SA Inc's chances with Boca would have been different SA been a legal tissue donor entity.

There's no evidence in the Palm Beach Post article that David Ettinger had any sort of a role to play in the pitch either. Fresh from his "victory" in Michigan, and given the previous CI/SA collaborations on a few cryostases, I thought that there might be a chance that David Ettinger would be playing a prominent role in this.

A question also remains as to what the history of cryonics in Florida has been, exactly. In the early 1980's, there was a complete cryonics lab in the Life Extension Foundation building on Hollywood Blvd., in Hollywood FL south of Boca by about a half hour drive on I-95. With the arrest of Steve Rudell, the original financier behind Life Extension Foundation, the exact details of the loss of the building and the lab are unclear to me. The Tuplers, prominent Florida cryonicist members of whatever cryonics company was operational at that time might be worth interviewing at this time. I'm confident that they would have been following the SA Inc situation carefully. Bill Faloon would definitely be able to tell us why Hollyood had not been chosen as an SA location. Did Hollywood FL ban cryonics too?

More on this throughtout the day. I'd like to see reactions from Alcor, CI, ACS and other prominent individual cryonicists. I'd like to review Alcor's capabilities as they pertain to Florida members too. I'd like to review Timeship and what chance it stands in Florida with this Boca ruling. Where are the Timeship possible locations, anyway? What ever became of that story? Why isn't SA Inc associated with Timeship? Does Timeship exist at all, other than in the imagination of a few people? What will the main people at SA do now? Will Mike Quinn be available to Alcor/ Will Chris Dougherty go to 21CM in Rancho? Will SA collapse entirely? Will Alcor successfully establish a lab/office in Florida given its UAGA status? Will the SA website come back up and report on this latest disaster? Did the people behind SA (Saul) know what they were doing in failing to get approval from town council before embarking on the SA project?

Last edited by recreation on January 14th, 2004, 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rick
Rick

January 14th, 2004, 11:26 pm #3

[+] Boca Raton local news this morning doesn't have anything on last night's council meeting.

There's nothing on Cryonet, this morning, about how the meeting went.

[+] I can't read the Boca Raton city council minutes yet because I don't have a PDF reader. If you, the reader do, then can click here and possibly get the scoop.
I might email SA to see when they plan on opening their website again.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 15th, 2004, 2:10 pm #4

[+] Boca Raton local news this morning doesn't have anything on last night's council meeting.

There's nothing on Cryonet, this morning, about how the meeting went.

[+] I can't read the Boca Raton city council minutes yet because I don't have a PDF reader. If you, the reader do, then can click here and possibly get the scoop.
[+] Rudi Hoffman opened up a window of fresh discourse on Cryonet regarding SA in Boca this morning-- and appears to be the only cryonicist doing so. His angle of interest-- how SA would have signed a lease without zoning approval-- gets as close to truth as possible before arriving at the ever-present confidentiality mode of human behavior. I wonder if, instead of a confluence of unfortunate circumstance, that led to the snuffau, it was as simple as something like "David forgot to get zoning approval"?
Last edited by recreation on January 15th, 2004, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 16th, 2004, 1:31 pm #5

[+] Boca Raton local news this morning doesn't have anything on last night's council meeting.

There's nothing on Cryonet, this morning, about how the meeting went.

[+] I can't read the Boca Raton city council minutes yet because I don't have a PDF reader. If you, the reader do, then can click here and possibly get the scoop.
Maybe I'll ask Rudi Hoffman to ask David Shumaker why the SA site was blocked. I'm still waiting for an "official" update press release from SA. I believe they actually "owe" the cryonics community some sort of official comment, given their previous levels of output and degree of expressed intentions with respect to cryonics. Perhaps Rudi can also ask David when there will be such an official press release. Maybe I'll email SA Inc myself, even though I have a full day of piano sales/lessons going on today. I don't think any of the retired people in cryonics should bother pursuing leads like this since rocking chairs are so much more comfortable.

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 16th, 2004, 1:36 pm #6

[+] Boca Raton local news this morning doesn't have anything on last night's council meeting.

There's nothing on Cryonet, this morning, about how the meeting went.

[+] I can't read the Boca Raton city council minutes yet because I don't have a PDF reader. If you, the reader do, then can click here and possibly get the scoop.
I don't want the rest of the cryonics community, including visitors to this forum, to concern themselves with reporting on the minutes of the Boca meeting, which look as though they may be posted in PDF format which I can't read with my webtv. I'll make the effort to drive down to Kinko's here in Phoenix to do that myself. Why should anyone of the other 999 cryonicists bother? We don't want to expend effort unneccessarily, just as Awshwin de Wolf points out is the case for immortals. [+]
Last edited by recreation on January 16th, 2004, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Non E. Moose
Non E. Moose

January 20th, 2004, 3:52 am #7

[+] Rudi Hoffman opened up a window of fresh discourse on Cryonet regarding SA in Boca this morning-- and appears to be the only cryonicist doing so. His angle of interest-- how SA would have signed a lease without zoning approval-- gets as close to truth as possible before arriving at the ever-present confidentiality mode of human behavior. I wonder if, instead of a confluence of unfortunate circumstance, that led to the snuffau, it was as simple as something like "David forgot to get zoning approval"?
Perhaps the reason for the lack of information on SA (as well as Timeship) is that Mr. Kent is counting his marbles and trying to figure out what to do. Perhaps heads will roll. Perhaps he now regrets ever letting that Darwin fellow go (what was his name again - Federowicz?) (look out, Jerrry, he's a Fed!)

And as it is common knowledge among the cognoscenti that Mr. Kent reads these forums assiduously, in case he lost his addressbook, here it is, from the phone book:

FEDEROWICZ MICHAEL 450 KINDIG RD INDIANAPOLIS IN (317) 881-8543

Wait, isn't this fellow wanted in California for injecting a near-cadaver, or some such thing? Oh well.

Unfortunately, we will not hear from Mr. Darwin on this forum, as he is still serving a 2-year sentence for signing one of those infamous "non-disclosure agreements."
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Rick
Rick

January 20th, 2004, 4:56 am #8

I'm speechless for the moment.
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Rick
Rick

January 20th, 2004, 12:08 pm #9

Perhaps the reason for the lack of information on SA (as well as Timeship) is that Mr. Kent is counting his marbles and trying to figure out what to do. Perhaps heads will roll. Perhaps he now regrets ever letting that Darwin fellow go (what was his name again - Federowicz?) (look out, Jerrry, he's a Fed!)

And as it is common knowledge among the cognoscenti that Mr. Kent reads these forums assiduously, in case he lost his addressbook, here it is, from the phone book:

FEDEROWICZ MICHAEL 450 KINDIG RD INDIANAPOLIS IN (317) 881-8543

Wait, isn't this fellow wanted in California for injecting a near-cadaver, or some such thing? Oh well.

Unfortunately, we will not hear from Mr. Darwin on this forum, as he is still serving a 2-year sentence for signing one of those infamous "non-disclosure agreements."
[+ Here's Saul's last post to Cryonet about Door into Summer. Maybe it's time for him to offer the Cryonet community an update.
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xtrams
xtrams

January 20th, 2004, 12:42 pm #10

I did hear that Saul hadn't been too well last year, maybe that's the reason for the low profile?
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