and it makes me sick...

and it makes me sick...

Joined: August 29th, 2001, 4:26 am

August 1st, 2002, 9:32 pm #1

As of this weekend, in Brisbane, shops will all be open until 5pm on Sundays. This means seven day trading, all year. The money grubbing bastards have done it again. Nobody will benefit from this decision. There are no pay increases planned for the workers. People still only have the same amount of money to spend in the week. So what is going to happen is that those who work in retail will have to work on Sundays, without any benefit.

It will kill small businesses who are struggling to survive anyway, and force owners to work longer hours for the same amount of money. The only people who will benefit are the big business owners - and they are people who don't need any more money.

It makes me sick to think how badly greed has infected society. Nothing is sacred any more - not even family. Money is the only thing the people in charge care about. sigh
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 30th, 2001, 2:27 am

August 1st, 2002, 10:38 pm #2

Shops here have been open on Sundays since ... I don't know when. If a business wants to be closed on Sundays, that's its choice. Big deal.

No pay increases? Are you telling me that all the workers in your area are payed salaries? I highly doubt that, especially for shop staffs. If they're payed wages then they get more money when they work more hours ...

As for not benefiting anyone, I doubt that. Everyone who works the typical 5-day week has two main days for shopping: Saturday and Sunday. It's either that or go after work (and personally I hate going out after a long day of work, I only make an exception for friends). If somebody's Saturday is busy, they have to wait a whole week? Why?

Going into the big vs small business really is irrelevant here. If the small businesses are closed on Sundays anyway, it won't really matter. The people who buy are all that matters. If they want the small business, they pay for its services. You might not like a particular shop closing, but if the public wants something more convenient then it is their choice.

Personally I find a lot of repression in your statement. If people want to shop on Sundays, why stop them? Because you don't want to? Some people don't like videogames. Should they be allowed to stop the rest of the population from playing them?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 6th, 2001, 2:45 pm

August 1st, 2002, 10:53 pm #3

As of this weekend, in Brisbane, shops will all be open until 5pm on Sundays. This means seven day trading, all year. The money grubbing bastards have done it again. Nobody will benefit from this decision. There are no pay increases planned for the workers. People still only have the same amount of money to spend in the week. So what is going to happen is that those who work in retail will have to work on Sundays, without any benefit.

It will kill small businesses who are struggling to survive anyway, and force owners to work longer hours for the same amount of money. The only people who will benefit are the big business owners - and they are people who don't need any more money.

It makes me sick to think how badly greed has infected society. Nothing is sacred any more - not even family. Money is the only thing the people in charge care about. sigh
Hail smegged,

They brought Sunday trading into regional Victoria about five years ago - I'm amazed it took BRISBANE this long - and it's not caused any problems. There were two arguments against it:

1) It's against the church.
2) We want to sleep in on Sundays

Well, the church came out and said they had no problems with it, and the second reason is not a real reason :p No businesses were harmed by it, and most of the smaller ones still close on Sundays.

Brisbane is larger, but let's look at Melbourne - larget still. I know people who own businesses in major areas of Melbourne, and some of them close Sundays: sure enough, they are no worse off than those who open.

Give it time: you'll probably not even notice it after a week or two - I know I did not.

May the wind pick up your heels and your sword strike true.
May the wind pick up your heels and your sword strike true.
Quote
Like
Share

smegged
smegged

August 2nd, 2002, 12:54 am #4

...reasons for not wanting it.

The stores already are opened on Saturdays. They are all (the big ones anyway) opened until 9pm throughout the week. Why do they need to be opened Sundays? It isn't like there are masses of people queuing up at the doors. Everybody has managed to get their shopping in thus far. We do not need to open for longer.

People have a finite amount of money. We cannot spend more money than we make, and having Sunday trading will not change that. People will not increase their spending, only spread it out more. Perhaps if people were to be paid penalty rates for Sunday work it might be better.

On a local radio station today they talked about the topic and had people phone in to voice their opinions (some of who worked in retail and were on salaries). There was NOT ONE supporter of the move. In fact, to win people over, the large retail chains are having Sunday only sales for the first month or so.

Oh, and Elric, you'd be surprised how many ex-Melbournites I know :P. My own father is one of em. And many of them came up to here because Melbourne was too big and to commercial (other than the fact that Brisbane is a nicer place to live :P).

The point being that Sundays are days when people can do things socially and in the community. No longer.

-smegged
Quote
Share

smegged
smegged

August 2nd, 2002, 1:13 am #5

Shops here have been open on Sundays since ... I don't know when. If a business wants to be closed on Sundays, that's its choice. Big deal.

No pay increases? Are you telling me that all the workers in your area are payed salaries? I highly doubt that, especially for shop staffs. If they're payed wages then they get more money when they work more hours ...

As for not benefiting anyone, I doubt that. Everyone who works the typical 5-day week has two main days for shopping: Saturday and Sunday. It's either that or go after work (and personally I hate going out after a long day of work, I only make an exception for friends). If somebody's Saturday is busy, they have to wait a whole week? Why?

Going into the big vs small business really is irrelevant here. If the small businesses are closed on Sundays anyway, it won't really matter. The people who buy are all that matters. If they want the small business, they pay for its services. You might not like a particular shop closing, but if the public wants something more convenient then it is their choice.

Personally I find a lot of repression in your statement. If people want to shop on Sundays, why stop them? Because you don't want to? Some people don't like videogames. Should they be allowed to stop the rest of the population from playing them?
Going into the big vs small business really is irrelevant here. If the small businesses are closed on Sundays anyway, it won't really matter.

Bull. Small businesses will have to stay open on Sundays to keep their clients. Customer loyalty counts for jack these days. People will go to the big stores if they can't get what they need from the small shops. If the small shops close they lose at least 1/7 of their business. Probably more since customers will get in the habbit of frequenting the larger stores that are opened on the Sundays. The fact that shop owners either have to work seven days a week or hire somebody means that small business owners are losing money compared to the old system.

I work in a store that opens seven days a week, and have for the last two and a half years. Working Sundays is NOT fun at all. And the only reason we have to open seven days a week is because our competitors do. We are a successful business, and there are many days in which there may be three sales in the whole day. Seven day trading is NOT a good thing.
Quote
Share

Joined: March 21st, 2002, 5:55 pm

August 2nd, 2002, 1:41 am #6

As of this weekend, in Brisbane, shops will all be open until 5pm on Sundays. This means seven day trading, all year. The money grubbing bastards have done it again. Nobody will benefit from this decision. There are no pay increases planned for the workers. People still only have the same amount of money to spend in the week. So what is going to happen is that those who work in retail will have to work on Sundays, without any benefit.

It will kill small businesses who are struggling to survive anyway, and force owners to work longer hours for the same amount of money. The only people who will benefit are the big business owners - and they are people who don't need any more money.

It makes me sick to think how badly greed has infected society. Nothing is sacred any more - not even family. Money is the only thing the people in charge care about. sigh
Hmm, you sure you're being educated outside the US smegged? The "small businesses vs big businesses" argument is typical socialistic thinking comming from most American schools, so if I didn't know better then I would think you're from the US.

Heh...

Ah, a few things that prove you're off track here...

1) Shops, large and small have been open here in the US for as long as I have been alive with NO detrimental effects. A LOT of people shop on Sundays, more than you might think. People go to church and then go out to eat, stroll around the malls window shopping, etc.

Shops do as well on Sunday as they do during the week, maybe a little better.

2) Shops usually have shorter hours on Sunday as well, unless they are convience stores, most major stores may be open only 6-8 hours as opposed to 12+ hours for normal days. With the shorter work day people still make money and don't have to work as much.

3) How do you know the shop keepers wouldn't relish the chance to have another day to make money??? How do you know the workers won't like the chance to work more hours?? Sure some might not like it but others more than likely will. I know when I used to work weekends I liked working Sundays rather than Saturday just because of the shorter schedule and slower pace. Since you mention the shops being open till 5 PM (much better than even here in the US) this sholdn't be a problem.

4) Contrary to what you think, some shops will STILL be closed on Sundays. There is a prominent "upscale" fast food chain, Chick-Fil-A, based here in Atlanta that does NOT open on Sunday because of the owners religious beliefs. This chain is growing rapidly, and they aren't open on Sundays, so contrary to your unfounded opinion, shops being closed on Sunday does NOT mean they will suffer and fail automatically...

5) People have a finite amount of money, true, but does it really matter if they spend it over 7 potential days or 6? If the businesses stay closed on Sunday then they only get 6 days chance to get a customers money, if they are open 7 days then they get an extra day to lure customers in.

What aobut the people who might go out and spend MORE of their money on Sunday because it's the first day they don't have to be rushed around and can take time to shop?

----

Most of these arguments sound like a bunch of whiny kids bitching that they have to work and don't get a "free" day off. Wah, time to grow up and join the rest of the industrialized world. Increased productivity means increased profits, more people being hired to work the shifts that are suddenly required, etc.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 21st, 2002, 5:55 pm

August 2nd, 2002, 1:46 am #7

...reasons for not wanting it.

The stores already are opened on Saturdays. They are all (the big ones anyway) opened until 9pm throughout the week. Why do they need to be opened Sundays? It isn't like there are masses of people queuing up at the doors. Everybody has managed to get their shopping in thus far. We do not need to open for longer.

People have a finite amount of money. We cannot spend more money than we make, and having Sunday trading will not change that. People will not increase their spending, only spread it out more. Perhaps if people were to be paid penalty rates for Sunday work it might be better.

On a local radio station today they talked about the topic and had people phone in to voice their opinions (some of who worked in retail and were on salaries). There was NOT ONE supporter of the move. In fact, to win people over, the large retail chains are having Sunday only sales for the first month or so.

Oh, and Elric, you'd be surprised how many ex-Melbournites I know :P. My own father is one of em. And many of them came up to here because Melbourne was too big and to commercial (other than the fact that Brisbane is a nicer place to live :P).

The point being that Sundays are days when people can do things socially and in the community. No longer.

-smegged
The point being that Sundays are days when people can do things socially and in the community. No longer.

So I assume on Sundays shops are open from dawn until way after dark? And that 100% of the population is required to report to work?

If either of the above conditions are false then your statement is false. People should still have time during the day to do stuff if they wish, or swap schedules with their co-workers who aren't working on Sunday.


Don't be quite so melodramatic.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 30th, 2001, 2:27 am

August 2nd, 2002, 1:58 am #8

...reasons for not wanting it.

The stores already are opened on Saturdays. They are all (the big ones anyway) opened until 9pm throughout the week. Why do they need to be opened Sundays? It isn't like there are masses of people queuing up at the doors. Everybody has managed to get their shopping in thus far. We do not need to open for longer.

People have a finite amount of money. We cannot spend more money than we make, and having Sunday trading will not change that. People will not increase their spending, only spread it out more. Perhaps if people were to be paid penalty rates for Sunday work it might be better.

On a local radio station today they talked about the topic and had people phone in to voice their opinions (some of who worked in retail and were on salaries). There was NOT ONE supporter of the move. In fact, to win people over, the large retail chains are having Sunday only sales for the first month or so.

Oh, and Elric, you'd be surprised how many ex-Melbournites I know :P. My own father is one of em. And many of them came up to here because Melbourne was too big and to commercial (other than the fact that Brisbane is a nicer place to live :P).

The point being that Sundays are days when people can do things socially and in the community. No longer.

-smegged
"The point being that Sundays are days when people can do things socially and in the community. No longer."

No way. As I said, my area's always had Sundays open for business as long as I've lived. Has it mattered at all on other events? Nope. Soccer (easily the biggest event in my area for children) is Sundays. Block Parties in my neighbourhood (which used to happen at an incredible rate) were Sundays. In fact, I really don't know many community events that aren't on Sundays. If they aren't, they're on Saturdays. Big Whoop. All of this has no tie with a business being open. If a community wants to be a *community*, then it's up to the residents.

"There was NOT ONE supporter of the move. In fact, to win people over, the large retail chains are having Sunday only sales for the first month or so."

If people aren't upset over something, they're less likely to talk about it too. I've heard alot more complaining in my life than anything else. If the silent majority didn't exist, Nixon would never have been elected.


Might as well put responses from the other post here:
"People will go to the big stores if they can't get what they need from the small shops."

Well, then that shows something lacking in the small shops. Just remember, all these 'big shops' didn't start big. They got there by giving people what they want.

"I work in a store that opens seven days a week, and have for the last two and a half years. Working Sundays is NOT fun at all."

I've never worked a job not open on Sundays. Don't see what sets Sunday so far apart from Saturday. At my current job (Car wash), we are at the complete mercy of the public whim. We're supposed to get around 110-120 cars on a weekday. I've seen 40 and I've seen 240 (Excluding early closings b/c of rain). Is "Sunday" to blame for that 40 day? Hardly.

Oh yeah, there are plenty of business/restaurants in our neighbourhood open 6 days a week. Not one of them is closed Sunday. The vast majority are off Monday, which (in my experience) is the dead weight of the week.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 30th, 2001, 2:27 am

August 2nd, 2002, 2:00 am #9

Hmm, you sure you're being educated outside the US smegged? The "small businesses vs big businesses" argument is typical socialistic thinking comming from most American schools, so if I didn't know better then I would think you're from the US.

Heh...

Ah, a few things that prove you're off track here...

1) Shops, large and small have been open here in the US for as long as I have been alive with NO detrimental effects. A LOT of people shop on Sundays, more than you might think. People go to church and then go out to eat, stroll around the malls window shopping, etc.

Shops do as well on Sunday as they do during the week, maybe a little better.

2) Shops usually have shorter hours on Sunday as well, unless they are convience stores, most major stores may be open only 6-8 hours as opposed to 12+ hours for normal days. With the shorter work day people still make money and don't have to work as much.

3) How do you know the shop keepers wouldn't relish the chance to have another day to make money??? How do you know the workers won't like the chance to work more hours?? Sure some might not like it but others more than likely will. I know when I used to work weekends I liked working Sundays rather than Saturday just because of the shorter schedule and slower pace. Since you mention the shops being open till 5 PM (much better than even here in the US) this sholdn't be a problem.

4) Contrary to what you think, some shops will STILL be closed on Sundays. There is a prominent "upscale" fast food chain, Chick-Fil-A, based here in Atlanta that does NOT open on Sunday because of the owners religious beliefs. This chain is growing rapidly, and they aren't open on Sundays, so contrary to your unfounded opinion, shops being closed on Sunday does NOT mean they will suffer and fail automatically...

5) People have a finite amount of money, true, but does it really matter if they spend it over 7 potential days or 6? If the businesses stay closed on Sunday then they only get 6 days chance to get a customers money, if they are open 7 days then they get an extra day to lure customers in.

What aobut the people who might go out and spend MORE of their money on Sunday because it's the first day they don't have to be rushed around and can take time to shop?

----

Most of these arguments sound like a bunch of whiny kids bitching that they have to work and don't get a "free" day off. Wah, time to grow up and join the rest of the industrialized world. Increased productivity means increased profits, more people being hired to work the shifts that are suddenly required, etc.
Yeah, I thought of that reading smegged's post.

We have three local branches (all in malls). Go in on a Sunday, and it's the ONLY place closed. Yet they're still there.
Quote
Like
Share

smegged
smegged

August 2nd, 2002, 2:24 am #10

The point being that Sundays are days when people can do things socially and in the community. No longer.

So I assume on Sundays shops are open from dawn until way after dark? And that 100% of the population is required to report to work?

If either of the above conditions are false then your statement is false. People should still have time during the day to do stuff if they wish, or swap schedules with their co-workers who aren't working on Sunday.


Don't be quite so melodramatic.
stores are open until pretty much after dark. They are open from 9-5 on ALL days of the week now.
Quote
Share