Is China a treat to PNG and the Pacific Islands?

Is China a treat to PNG and the Pacific Islands?

...mE
...mE

April 8th, 2006, 4:38 am #1

Here is a little something I've seen happening between the U.S. and Asia relations and I want to share it with yous. There is a struggle of power in terms of regional recognition and we in Papua New Guinea will be definately affected by these struggle. We must be open minded and be aware if want to survive as a nation.

Space has allowed me to say something about 3 Asian nations only while there is alot more happening with the other nations that is not been put here.....plis feel free to include yur comments and reponses.


ASIA SEEN

Rise in Regional Power
=> Rise in Military
=> Rise in Economic Activity
=> Rise in Technology
=> Rise in Pollution

China

Rise in Regional and International power will always have an effect on the international System. Every time a new country rises in international power there is always a potential for conflict. History has shown us what occurs and we only need to look back to World War 1 and World War 2 to prove it. U.S and Japan in World War II, U.S and Russia in the Cold war. There is a challenge that a rise in power will have a on the international system and China is rising. It will not only have an impact in the Pacific but also throughout the World. We must be mindful of China¡¦s aspirations as they want to be the primitive power in the Pacific and certainly want to be a primitive power globally.

China has re-emerged as the U.S greatest challenge on U.S Foreign Policy in dealing with the war on Terror. China is the world¡¦s populous country and is one of the world¡¦s largest economies. Its economies have seen a double digit growth in the last 10 years since 1980. It is also the world¡¦s largest consumer of energy, as its economy grows by 10 percent it¡¦s year it uses more energy to keep the same growth rate. U.S is the world¡¦s largest consumer of energy, china is 2nd and India is 5th.

China now has the world¡¦s 3rd largest defense budget after U.S and Russia but they where never in that category 10 years ago. Their defense budget has double and there is a concern what China would do with its modern and more capable military. China is also the worlds 2nd largest polluter after India. Of course as its economy grows and they developed it needs more energy yet, China does not spend a lot on protecting their environment. They are using a lot of technology which is causing a green house effect.


North Korea

Currently North Korea is having a 6 men round table discussion with Japan, U.S., South Korea, China and Russia about its weapons of mass destruction program. What happens is that North Korea has a WMD program and since they have a communist government the U.S is feeling insecure about what they are capable of during with their WMD. So in 1994 U.S and North Korea signed a Geneva Agreed Framework which basically states that North Korea will cease its WMD program in returned for energy exchange from U.S. But in 2002 U.S found out that North Korea has resumed its WMD program 4 years ago in 1998.

Obviously U.S wouldn¡¦t want to make a new agreement with North Korea as they have broken their previous agreement which is the Geneva agreed Framework. U.S then found out that China has a longstanding relationship with North Korea. They have military alliance, China is the largest food and aid donor to North Korea and so they would be in a better position to influence. U.S then brings these 6 countries together and tells them that this is a regional issue and they all need to work together to resolve it.


Japan

World War II was the last time when overall U.S.-Japan relations and the economic relationship in particular, were as bad as appears to be the case in the 1990's. In early 1990¡¦s the United States and Japan are respectively the two largest economies in the world. Japan is the second leading market for American products, trailing only Canada. Japan buys more U.S. goods than France, Germany, and Italy combined. The U.S. is the leading foreign investor in Japan. The United States is the number one market in the world for Japanese products. Japan is the second leading foreign investor behind the British in this country. Given the high level of economic interaction between the two nations, it behooves educators to separate the rhetoric about U.S.-Japan economic relations from the reality.

While still suffering criticism over World War II, Japan realizes its duty and responsibilities for maintaining world peace, but wants more credit for the exemplary role it has played for the past 6 decades. Japan wants to be a proud nation who wants to defend itself without anybody¡¦s help and without even needing their closes ally the U.S. They now have military allegiance yet for Japan to be able to defend itself means to amend their constitution, article 9. Which plainly states the Japan won¡¦t use war to push their foreign policy.




U.S. SEEN

Current Regional Power
Although Australia, New Zealand, Japan the E.U and U.S remain major partners for the region and thus Papua New Guinea, China¡¦s contributions have leaped -froged in the last five years. China is fast becoming an increasingly important aid and trading partner and South Pacific nations are responding positively to these Chinese initiatives.

In the 1990¡¦s the U.S closed U.S Information Agency offices, its Regional Development Office an ended the Fulbright study exchange program in the region. The numbers of U.S Peace Corps in the region have been halved since 1995. The U.S. Peace Corps ceased operations in Papua New Guinea in 2001 due to security concerns. About 2,500 U.S. citizens live in Papua New Guinea, with major concentrations at two missionary headquarters in the Eastern Highlands Province. Additionally, the U.K. recently closed three diplomatic posts in the regions and withdrew from the Pacific Community, the regional development body.


Economic and Nuclear Threat

Currently U.S is seen has facing an Economic and Nuclear threat from the Asian Region. Its economy is being threatened as more of Asian Companies buy major shares in U.S companies. China is increasingly becoming an important trade partner for U.S as they increase their imports away from Europe and increase trade with Asia. India¡¦s economy is also growing and they obviously want to increase their partnership with the U.S.

U.S is also facing a nuclear threat from Asian Region, as North Korea continues to give its WMD program, others such as China, Iraq, Iran, India and Japan won¡¦t give up their WMD. Japan certainly won¡¦t as most of North Korean missiles are aimed at them. And Taiwan would certainly love to get their hands on WMD should China wants to take them on. That would then see U.S being involved as they have an obligation towards protecting Taiwan.


War on Terrorism

At first we thought that the war on terror was only going to be in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Britain was hit, the Russia and then the Bali bombing. U.S, Britain and Australia has a close relationship, thou Britain has seen what occurs during 9/11 and had practically surveillance cameras everywhere yet they were struck, in fact, they were struck twice. The Bali bombings killed at least 80 Australians, it may not be at Australia but it is directed at the Australians.

Complacency in the Pacific

Tony Blaire said that "Since 9/11, 26 countries have been struck by terrorism, and how many of this countries have been struck twice or more for that matter." We in Papua New Guinea and the Pacific think it¡¦s not going to happen to us, not going to happen to our neighbor but then it does. Papua New Guinea may not seem to have this problem but it could come to our neighborhood anytime and wee need to keep our guards up.

Australia is by far the largest bilateral aid donor to Papua New Guinea, offering about $300 million a year in assistance. Budgetary support, which has been provided in decreasing amounts since independence, was phased out in 2000, with aid concentrated on project development. In 2004, Australia and Papua New Guinea embarked on the Enhanced Cooperation Program (ECP), under which Australia agreed to provide direct assistance, including 210 line police officers, to the Papua New Guinea constabulary. The ECP met with initial success, but was abruptly ended when Papua New Guinea¡¦s Supreme Court stripped Australian police officers of immunity in May 2005. Virtually all ECP personnel left Papua New Guinea following the court¡¦s decision. The governments of Papua New Guinea and Australia are now involved in protracted negotiations on a scaled-down version of the ECP which is the ECP MarkII.

What do we in Papua New Guinea see about the U.S. & Asia relations?
The U.S needs to work with its allies in the region, not to contain Asia or China for that matter but to strengthen the governments and economies in the South Pacific. South Pacific Nations want a range of options, not an exchange of one dominant partner for another. However the current message is that China is paying attention to the region and the U.S is not. Tamara Shie puts it nicely, "If Washington continues to look the other way, and Beijing will not only woo the South Pacific but possibly win it."


Cheers!!!
...mE


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Mabel
Mabel

April 8th, 2006, 6:44 am #2

It is neither a treat nor a threat to PNG.
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Mauswara
Mauswara

April 8th, 2006, 7:53 am #3

Here is a little something I've seen happening between the U.S. and Asia relations and I want to share it with yous. There is a struggle of power in terms of regional recognition and we in Papua New Guinea will be definately affected by these struggle. We must be open minded and be aware if want to survive as a nation.

Space has allowed me to say something about 3 Asian nations only while there is alot more happening with the other nations that is not been put here.....plis feel free to include yur comments and reponses.


ASIA SEEN

Rise in Regional Power
=> Rise in Military
=> Rise in Economic Activity
=> Rise in Technology
=> Rise in Pollution

China

Rise in Regional and International power will always have an effect on the international System. Every time a new country rises in international power there is always a potential for conflict. History has shown us what occurs and we only need to look back to World War 1 and World War 2 to prove it. U.S and Japan in World War II, U.S and Russia in the Cold war. There is a challenge that a rise in power will have a on the international system and China is rising. It will not only have an impact in the Pacific but also throughout the World. We must be mindful of China¡¦s aspirations as they want to be the primitive power in the Pacific and certainly want to be a primitive power globally.

China has re-emerged as the U.S greatest challenge on U.S Foreign Policy in dealing with the war on Terror. China is the world¡¦s populous country and is one of the world¡¦s largest economies. Its economies have seen a double digit growth in the last 10 years since 1980. It is also the world¡¦s largest consumer of energy, as its economy grows by 10 percent it¡¦s year it uses more energy to keep the same growth rate. U.S is the world¡¦s largest consumer of energy, china is 2nd and India is 5th.

China now has the world¡¦s 3rd largest defense budget after U.S and Russia but they where never in that category 10 years ago. Their defense budget has double and there is a concern what China would do with its modern and more capable military. China is also the worlds 2nd largest polluter after India. Of course as its economy grows and they developed it needs more energy yet, China does not spend a lot on protecting their environment. They are using a lot of technology which is causing a green house effect.


North Korea

Currently North Korea is having a 6 men round table discussion with Japan, U.S., South Korea, China and Russia about its weapons of mass destruction program. What happens is that North Korea has a WMD program and since they have a communist government the U.S is feeling insecure about what they are capable of during with their WMD. So in 1994 U.S and North Korea signed a Geneva Agreed Framework which basically states that North Korea will cease its WMD program in returned for energy exchange from U.S. But in 2002 U.S found out that North Korea has resumed its WMD program 4 years ago in 1998.

Obviously U.S wouldn¡¦t want to make a new agreement with North Korea as they have broken their previous agreement which is the Geneva agreed Framework. U.S then found out that China has a longstanding relationship with North Korea. They have military alliance, China is the largest food and aid donor to North Korea and so they would be in a better position to influence. U.S then brings these 6 countries together and tells them that this is a regional issue and they all need to work together to resolve it.


Japan

World War II was the last time when overall U.S.-Japan relations and the economic relationship in particular, were as bad as appears to be the case in the 1990's. In early 1990¡¦s the United States and Japan are respectively the two largest economies in the world. Japan is the second leading market for American products, trailing only Canada. Japan buys more U.S. goods than France, Germany, and Italy combined. The U.S. is the leading foreign investor in Japan. The United States is the number one market in the world for Japanese products. Japan is the second leading foreign investor behind the British in this country. Given the high level of economic interaction between the two nations, it behooves educators to separate the rhetoric about U.S.-Japan economic relations from the reality.

While still suffering criticism over World War II, Japan realizes its duty and responsibilities for maintaining world peace, but wants more credit for the exemplary role it has played for the past 6 decades. Japan wants to be a proud nation who wants to defend itself without anybody¡¦s help and without even needing their closes ally the U.S. They now have military allegiance yet for Japan to be able to defend itself means to amend their constitution, article 9. Which plainly states the Japan won¡¦t use war to push their foreign policy.




U.S. SEEN

Current Regional Power
Although Australia, New Zealand, Japan the E.U and U.S remain major partners for the region and thus Papua New Guinea, China¡¦s contributions have leaped -froged in the last five years. China is fast becoming an increasingly important aid and trading partner and South Pacific nations are responding positively to these Chinese initiatives.

In the 1990¡¦s the U.S closed U.S Information Agency offices, its Regional Development Office an ended the Fulbright study exchange program in the region. The numbers of U.S Peace Corps in the region have been halved since 1995. The U.S. Peace Corps ceased operations in Papua New Guinea in 2001 due to security concerns. About 2,500 U.S. citizens live in Papua New Guinea, with major concentrations at two missionary headquarters in the Eastern Highlands Province. Additionally, the U.K. recently closed three diplomatic posts in the regions and withdrew from the Pacific Community, the regional development body.


Economic and Nuclear Threat

Currently U.S is seen has facing an Economic and Nuclear threat from the Asian Region. Its economy is being threatened as more of Asian Companies buy major shares in U.S companies. China is increasingly becoming an important trade partner for U.S as they increase their imports away from Europe and increase trade with Asia. India¡¦s economy is also growing and they obviously want to increase their partnership with the U.S.

U.S is also facing a nuclear threat from Asian Region, as North Korea continues to give its WMD program, others such as China, Iraq, Iran, India and Japan won¡¦t give up their WMD. Japan certainly won¡¦t as most of North Korean missiles are aimed at them. And Taiwan would certainly love to get their hands on WMD should China wants to take them on. That would then see U.S being involved as they have an obligation towards protecting Taiwan.


War on Terrorism

At first we thought that the war on terror was only going to be in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Britain was hit, the Russia and then the Bali bombing. U.S, Britain and Australia has a close relationship, thou Britain has seen what occurs during 9/11 and had practically surveillance cameras everywhere yet they were struck, in fact, they were struck twice. The Bali bombings killed at least 80 Australians, it may not be at Australia but it is directed at the Australians.

Complacency in the Pacific

Tony Blaire said that "Since 9/11, 26 countries have been struck by terrorism, and how many of this countries have been struck twice or more for that matter." We in Papua New Guinea and the Pacific think it¡¦s not going to happen to us, not going to happen to our neighbor but then it does. Papua New Guinea may not seem to have this problem but it could come to our neighborhood anytime and wee need to keep our guards up.

Australia is by far the largest bilateral aid donor to Papua New Guinea, offering about $300 million a year in assistance. Budgetary support, which has been provided in decreasing amounts since independence, was phased out in 2000, with aid concentrated on project development. In 2004, Australia and Papua New Guinea embarked on the Enhanced Cooperation Program (ECP), under which Australia agreed to provide direct assistance, including 210 line police officers, to the Papua New Guinea constabulary. The ECP met with initial success, but was abruptly ended when Papua New Guinea¡¦s Supreme Court stripped Australian police officers of immunity in May 2005. Virtually all ECP personnel left Papua New Guinea following the court¡¦s decision. The governments of Papua New Guinea and Australia are now involved in protracted negotiations on a scaled-down version of the ECP which is the ECP MarkII.

What do we in Papua New Guinea see about the U.S. & Asia relations?
The U.S needs to work with its allies in the region, not to contain Asia or China for that matter but to strengthen the governments and economies in the South Pacific. South Pacific Nations want a range of options, not an exchange of one dominant partner for another. However the current message is that China is paying attention to the region and the U.S is not. Tamara Shie puts it nicely, "If Washington continues to look the other way, and Beijing will not only woo the South Pacific but possibly win it."


Cheers!!!
...mE

The US invests where it is of strategic interest to them. The Pacific contain nothing for the US - resources and power play wise. That is why the US withdrew its active participation from the Pacific.

When you talk about Asia-Pacific in the US the buck stops with Indonesia. No Congressman in the US gives a shiat about the Pacific. They invest where there is a military power threat, Nuclear Power Competitor in the region, and where there is excessive oil reserves.

China is taking opportunity of the power vacancy in the region - mind you Australia is not even a world power compared to China. China has discovered that in order to progress economically and become an equal power in the Asian region, it has to extend its economic ties and influence.

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...mE
...mE

April 9th, 2006, 3:50 am #4

Here is a little something I've seen happening between the U.S. and Asia relations and I want to share it with yous. There is a struggle of power in terms of regional recognition and we in Papua New Guinea will be definately affected by these struggle. We must be open minded and be aware if want to survive as a nation.

Space has allowed me to say something about 3 Asian nations only while there is alot more happening with the other nations that is not been put here.....plis feel free to include yur comments and reponses.


ASIA SEEN

Rise in Regional Power
=> Rise in Military
=> Rise in Economic Activity
=> Rise in Technology
=> Rise in Pollution

China

Rise in Regional and International power will always have an effect on the international System. Every time a new country rises in international power there is always a potential for conflict. History has shown us what occurs and we only need to look back to World War 1 and World War 2 to prove it. U.S and Japan in World War II, U.S and Russia in the Cold war. There is a challenge that a rise in power will have a on the international system and China is rising. It will not only have an impact in the Pacific but also throughout the World. We must be mindful of China¡¦s aspirations as they want to be the primitive power in the Pacific and certainly want to be a primitive power globally.

China has re-emerged as the U.S greatest challenge on U.S Foreign Policy in dealing with the war on Terror. China is the world¡¦s populous country and is one of the world¡¦s largest economies. Its economies have seen a double digit growth in the last 10 years since 1980. It is also the world¡¦s largest consumer of energy, as its economy grows by 10 percent it¡¦s year it uses more energy to keep the same growth rate. U.S is the world¡¦s largest consumer of energy, china is 2nd and India is 5th.

China now has the world¡¦s 3rd largest defense budget after U.S and Russia but they where never in that category 10 years ago. Their defense budget has double and there is a concern what China would do with its modern and more capable military. China is also the worlds 2nd largest polluter after India. Of course as its economy grows and they developed it needs more energy yet, China does not spend a lot on protecting their environment. They are using a lot of technology which is causing a green house effect.


North Korea

Currently North Korea is having a 6 men round table discussion with Japan, U.S., South Korea, China and Russia about its weapons of mass destruction program. What happens is that North Korea has a WMD program and since they have a communist government the U.S is feeling insecure about what they are capable of during with their WMD. So in 1994 U.S and North Korea signed a Geneva Agreed Framework which basically states that North Korea will cease its WMD program in returned for energy exchange from U.S. But in 2002 U.S found out that North Korea has resumed its WMD program 4 years ago in 1998.

Obviously U.S wouldn¡¦t want to make a new agreement with North Korea as they have broken their previous agreement which is the Geneva agreed Framework. U.S then found out that China has a longstanding relationship with North Korea. They have military alliance, China is the largest food and aid donor to North Korea and so they would be in a better position to influence. U.S then brings these 6 countries together and tells them that this is a regional issue and they all need to work together to resolve it.


Japan

World War II was the last time when overall U.S.-Japan relations and the economic relationship in particular, were as bad as appears to be the case in the 1990's. In early 1990¡¦s the United States and Japan are respectively the two largest economies in the world. Japan is the second leading market for American products, trailing only Canada. Japan buys more U.S. goods than France, Germany, and Italy combined. The U.S. is the leading foreign investor in Japan. The United States is the number one market in the world for Japanese products. Japan is the second leading foreign investor behind the British in this country. Given the high level of economic interaction between the two nations, it behooves educators to separate the rhetoric about U.S.-Japan economic relations from the reality.

While still suffering criticism over World War II, Japan realizes its duty and responsibilities for maintaining world peace, but wants more credit for the exemplary role it has played for the past 6 decades. Japan wants to be a proud nation who wants to defend itself without anybody¡¦s help and without even needing their closes ally the U.S. They now have military allegiance yet for Japan to be able to defend itself means to amend their constitution, article 9. Which plainly states the Japan won¡¦t use war to push their foreign policy.




U.S. SEEN

Current Regional Power
Although Australia, New Zealand, Japan the E.U and U.S remain major partners for the region and thus Papua New Guinea, China¡¦s contributions have leaped -froged in the last five years. China is fast becoming an increasingly important aid and trading partner and South Pacific nations are responding positively to these Chinese initiatives.

In the 1990¡¦s the U.S closed U.S Information Agency offices, its Regional Development Office an ended the Fulbright study exchange program in the region. The numbers of U.S Peace Corps in the region have been halved since 1995. The U.S. Peace Corps ceased operations in Papua New Guinea in 2001 due to security concerns. About 2,500 U.S. citizens live in Papua New Guinea, with major concentrations at two missionary headquarters in the Eastern Highlands Province. Additionally, the U.K. recently closed three diplomatic posts in the regions and withdrew from the Pacific Community, the regional development body.


Economic and Nuclear Threat

Currently U.S is seen has facing an Economic and Nuclear threat from the Asian Region. Its economy is being threatened as more of Asian Companies buy major shares in U.S companies. China is increasingly becoming an important trade partner for U.S as they increase their imports away from Europe and increase trade with Asia. India¡¦s economy is also growing and they obviously want to increase their partnership with the U.S.

U.S is also facing a nuclear threat from Asian Region, as North Korea continues to give its WMD program, others such as China, Iraq, Iran, India and Japan won¡¦t give up their WMD. Japan certainly won¡¦t as most of North Korean missiles are aimed at them. And Taiwan would certainly love to get their hands on WMD should China wants to take them on. That would then see U.S being involved as they have an obligation towards protecting Taiwan.


War on Terrorism

At first we thought that the war on terror was only going to be in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Britain was hit, the Russia and then the Bali bombing. U.S, Britain and Australia has a close relationship, thou Britain has seen what occurs during 9/11 and had practically surveillance cameras everywhere yet they were struck, in fact, they were struck twice. The Bali bombings killed at least 80 Australians, it may not be at Australia but it is directed at the Australians.

Complacency in the Pacific

Tony Blaire said that "Since 9/11, 26 countries have been struck by terrorism, and how many of this countries have been struck twice or more for that matter." We in Papua New Guinea and the Pacific think it¡¦s not going to happen to us, not going to happen to our neighbor but then it does. Papua New Guinea may not seem to have this problem but it could come to our neighborhood anytime and wee need to keep our guards up.

Australia is by far the largest bilateral aid donor to Papua New Guinea, offering about $300 million a year in assistance. Budgetary support, which has been provided in decreasing amounts since independence, was phased out in 2000, with aid concentrated on project development. In 2004, Australia and Papua New Guinea embarked on the Enhanced Cooperation Program (ECP), under which Australia agreed to provide direct assistance, including 210 line police officers, to the Papua New Guinea constabulary. The ECP met with initial success, but was abruptly ended when Papua New Guinea¡¦s Supreme Court stripped Australian police officers of immunity in May 2005. Virtually all ECP personnel left Papua New Guinea following the court¡¦s decision. The governments of Papua New Guinea and Australia are now involved in protracted negotiations on a scaled-down version of the ECP which is the ECP MarkII.

What do we in Papua New Guinea see about the U.S. & Asia relations?
The U.S needs to work with its allies in the region, not to contain Asia or China for that matter but to strengthen the governments and economies in the South Pacific. South Pacific Nations want a range of options, not an exchange of one dominant partner for another. However the current message is that China is paying attention to the region and the U.S is not. Tamara Shie puts it nicely, "If Washington continues to look the other way, and Beijing will not only woo the South Pacific but possibly win it."


Cheers!!!
...mE

My apologies.....the message should have 'threat' spelt in it and not 'treat' as it is now.


Cheers!!!
...mE
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Cowgirl
Cowgirl

April 9th, 2006, 4:23 am #5

In my view, China is NOT an immediate threat to PNG. Chinas primary aim is growth in its economy through trade and foreign investment, which has been encouraged after extreme Communism has been moderated. Any Chinese business want to invest in a win-win economic/investment deal. If PNG diplomats (politicians) cannot play dice, than we cannot jump up and blame China. Americans have a reason to make alot of noise on "China and the Pacific".
China is now focused to leapfrog Italy and the United Kingdom to become the 4th global economy. And if its economy growth will be steadily growing at the current GDP growth rate, it can knock out Germany, and race with Japan to tie the US in 10-20 years time.

George Bush recently labeled China “World Factory” on commenting its rise in military power. Chinas military rise could be to do with its territory (Taiwan), and America will continue to jump up and down like a global-brother seen everywhere from South-America to Middle-east to Africa and now to Asian and Pacific. Why is America massively funding and selling modern sophisticate military machinery and arsenals to Taiwan?

Chinas military and economic rise is a direct threat to American military and economy. We should not jump on US rhetoric and start making noise that China is a direct threat to PNG. I doubt it.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 9th, 2006, 2:51 pm #6

I really do not see how China can be a threat to PNG.

If anything, China is a very important trading partner. One of the biggest importer of raw resources from PNG. China has increased aid to PNG in recent times. Ofcourse they have ulterior motives but I thin PNG can be smart too.

PNG is not in anyway under threat from China. It is Australia which is under threat with China`s increasing influence in the Pacific. PNG is merely one of the battle ground, just like it was during WW II. But only now it is a different kind of war.

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pngean
pngean

April 9th, 2006, 3:31 pm #7

This rise and fall of all the world empires were foretold in the Bible. Even US`s rise as a super power was foretold.

Since the 70s-80s Bible schorlars have always mantained that the last super power will be China. This was because after studying the decription of the last army which will march across the Eurphrates river into the Gulf for the battle of Armegedon fits China. The main question has always been how a big army will move across the Eurphrates river because at that time there was no way to cross easily into the Gulf from China. However, now it is possible with a construction and completion of a dam by China across the mighty Eurphrates. Now the possibility of a large army such as China`s can moving on land into the Gulf, the hottest conflict area on this planet excists.

Babylone (morden day Iraq) was once the centre of the world before the Roman empire. It is also written that Babylone will once again be the focus of the world in the end times.

just my personal thoughts.

pngean
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CONSTIPATION
CONSTIPATION

April 10th, 2006, 12:24 am #8

If these are just your PERSONAL THOUGTS, then its a bunch of rubbish based upon nothing.

Give me some verses from the bible, give me some quotes, give me anything. Just don't say they're your thoughts, because nobody's going to believe them.

Evidence is critical in making a valid point. Please make it valid. It will hold more swing with me next time.
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pngean
pngean

April 10th, 2006, 2:02 am #9

Like I said, there are my own views based on my own readings. I do not have to convince you to belive me. If my posting has interested you, you can search for information your self than make your own conclusions. Even if I give you the Biblical texts with relevant information concerning China in Bible prophecy you may still be skeptical.

pngean.
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Doubly Constipated
Doubly Constipated

April 10th, 2006, 9:57 am #10

It seems to me as if you don't really know any relevant specific quotes from the Bible to back up your opinion. Your own generalsim has defeated your argument.

Despite my skepticism--I don't think you'd be able to direct me to any Biblical references in the first place.

When you present an opinion in an argument, you NEVER suggest for the reader to go and do their own research. Pathetic! And it will never hold in any debate. Is it not the objective of any argumentive piece to convince the reader, through valid and relevant reasoning and references, that your opinion may offer some truth?

I'm sorry my friend, but your piece is still CONSTIPATION.
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