Trying to make sense of it all - anon for this

Trying to make sense of it all - anon for this

Anonymous
Anonymous

June 5th, 2012, 6:39 pm #1



I used to post on these boards several years ago when my DH and I were going through our IF journey. Just a short history of us is we tried for 6 years with countless natural cycles, 3 IUIs and 6 IVFs. All BFN. None of the IVFs were covered by insurance because by the time I starting doing the IVFs I was over 40. We decided a few months ago we were done TTC. We both are emotionally (and financially) spent. We need to live our lives. We mainly decided because of our age. I am almost 44 and he will be 46. I am still in the process of grieving and I am sure I will be for some time. We contemplated DE and adoption but our heart is not in it (nor do we have the finances).

I wanted to post because of an encounter I had with a friend the other day. It made me question life and the whole universe really. You will understand when I explain the story. It is kind of a confusing so hopefully I explain it ok.

I have a friend named (Amy) who I went to high school with. Most recently I got to know her again because she lived down the street from me. I have since moved, 3 years ago, and we lost touch again. She is a really great person. She is my age and has 3 grown boys (all in the military) and her youngest is a girl around 14. Her brother in law, Jim, was dating a girl named Brenda about 10 years ago. Brenda decided to cheat on Jim and got pregnant by another guy. Brenda is a drug addict and has been in and out of rehab all of her life. The state was going to take her baby away and Jim stepped in and became a foster parent and then adopted the baby. I give credit to Jim since it is not his biological child and the result of his girlfriend cheating on him.

Brenda in the mean time has had 3 more children all with different men. Each one of them has been taken away by the state and put in foster care. Here is where my encounter begins. Sunday I was in the grocery store and I saw Amy. It was great to see her and low and behold in her cart was the cutest 1 and a ½ year old boy. She looked at me kind of awkwardly (she knows my IF history) and I asked her who the little boy was. She said it was Brendas 5th child. (by the way Brenda is 39 years old) The baby was actually a twin and one of them was lost midway through the pregnancy. The child she had with her was born at 2 pounds and was addicted to heroin and cocaine. It was born a premie and it was touch and go for some time but he is doing well now and is 18 months old. I asked where the father was and Amy said he is died in a gang shooting. Amy has decided to adopt the child. I was floored. She only planned on being a foster parent for 2 months but she fell in love with the baby during that time. Can you blame her?

Amy and I talked for about an hour on how unfair life is and how she thinks of me all the time. How DH and I are such a great couple and we cannot have a child. Why???? God has some explaining to do we said. How can a woman like Brenda have 6 children and not blink an eye to see them get taken away?

And get this. Brenda is now pregnant with her 6th child and is in rehab.

I cant stop thinking of this. I dont know how to make sense of it. I am sure you all can relate but since we stopped TTC it just stabs me in the heart. I think I just needed to vent so thanks for listening.


Reply
Share

JennyB
JennyB

June 5th, 2012, 6:58 pm #2

I totally and completely hear you. Maybe your encounter would open your heart to adoption? I totally get it's not fair. I so so understand that and feel the same way. But your phrase: How could you not? makes me think your heart might be open to revisiting other paths to motherhood.

Reply
Share

Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

June 5th, 2012, 7:00 pm #3



I used to post on these boards several years ago when my DH and I were going through our IF journey. Just a short history of us is we tried for 6 years with countless natural cycles, 3 IUIs and 6 IVFs. All BFN. None of the IVFs were covered by insurance because by the time I starting doing the IVFs I was over 40. We decided a few months ago we were done TTC. We both are emotionally (and financially) spent. We need to live our lives. We mainly decided because of our age. I am almost 44 and he will be 46. I am still in the process of grieving and I am sure I will be for some time. We contemplated DE and adoption but our heart is not in it (nor do we have the finances).

I wanted to post because of an encounter I had with a friend the other day. It made me question life and the whole universe really. You will understand when I explain the story. It is kind of a confusing so hopefully I explain it ok.

I have a friend named (Amy) who I went to high school with. Most recently I got to know her again because she lived down the street from me. I have since moved, 3 years ago, and we lost touch again. She is a really great person. She is my age and has 3 grown boys (all in the military) and her youngest is a girl around 14. Her brother in law, Jim, was dating a girl named Brenda about 10 years ago. Brenda decided to cheat on Jim and got pregnant by another guy. Brenda is a drug addict and has been in and out of rehab all of her life. The state was going to take her baby away and Jim stepped in and became a foster parent and then adopted the baby. I give credit to Jim since it is not his biological child and the result of his girlfriend cheating on him.

Brenda in the mean time has had 3 more children all with different men. Each one of them has been taken away by the state and put in foster care. Here is where my encounter begins. Sunday I was in the grocery store and I saw Amy. It was great to see her and low and behold in her cart was the cutest 1 and a ½ year old boy. She looked at me kind of awkwardly (she knows my IF history) and I asked her who the little boy was. She said it was Brendas 5th child. (by the way Brenda is 39 years old) The baby was actually a twin and one of them was lost midway through the pregnancy. The child she had with her was born at 2 pounds and was addicted to heroin and cocaine. It was born a premie and it was touch and go for some time but he is doing well now and is 18 months old. I asked where the father was and Amy said he is died in a gang shooting. Amy has decided to adopt the child. I was floored. She only planned on being a foster parent for 2 months but she fell in love with the baby during that time. Can you blame her?

Amy and I talked for about an hour on how unfair life is and how she thinks of me all the time. How DH and I are such a great couple and we cannot have a child. Why???? God has some explaining to do we said. How can a woman like Brenda have 6 children and not blink an eye to see them get taken away?

And get this. Brenda is now pregnant with her 6th child and is in rehab.

I cant stop thinking of this. I dont know how to make sense of it. I am sure you all can relate but since we stopped TTC it just stabs me in the heart. I think I just needed to vent so thanks for listening.

First of all, salute to Amy for adopting a child from a drug addict mother, I won't touch that situation with a 10-ft pole. LOTS of problems will surface when the baby develops considering how long his birth mother has been on hard drugs like cocaine, and the fact he was preemie at only 2 lbs. delayed development is their best scenario, and I hate to go into other more probable circumstances. You cannot tell if a baby is normal by 18 months, he may look just fine but the real difference kicks in when they reach 3-5 and beyond. I honestly feel very sorry for the life that baby will face for choices that are not his.

Some women are born more fertile, it is just the way our body is built, just like some of us are more intelligent, or physically stronger than others. It's just that we may not be the lucky ones to have these enviable traits. Bringing up a child is about more nurture than nature. If you breed a dozen and all of them die from gang fights, drug overdose, what is the point anyway?

So this Brenda woman is good at churning out babies. But look at what these babies end up with? 5 different foster families, and I am sure some of them will encounter serious health issues later in life, and none will regard or care for her as the mother. So what does she get out of it? She will only be rewarded in life for how much she puts in, and 5 babies, some medically handicapped not by nature but by her deliberate acts, is not a reward in my dictionary.
Reply
Like
Share

DeeinNYC
DeeinNYC

June 5th, 2012, 7:04 pm #4



I used to post on these boards several years ago when my DH and I were going through our IF journey. Just a short history of us is we tried for 6 years with countless natural cycles, 3 IUIs and 6 IVFs. All BFN. None of the IVFs were covered by insurance because by the time I starting doing the IVFs I was over 40. We decided a few months ago we were done TTC. We both are emotionally (and financially) spent. We need to live our lives. We mainly decided because of our age. I am almost 44 and he will be 46. I am still in the process of grieving and I am sure I will be for some time. We contemplated DE and adoption but our heart is not in it (nor do we have the finances).

I wanted to post because of an encounter I had with a friend the other day. It made me question life and the whole universe really. You will understand when I explain the story. It is kind of a confusing so hopefully I explain it ok.

I have a friend named (Amy) who I went to high school with. Most recently I got to know her again because she lived down the street from me. I have since moved, 3 years ago, and we lost touch again. She is a really great person. She is my age and has 3 grown boys (all in the military) and her youngest is a girl around 14. Her brother in law, Jim, was dating a girl named Brenda about 10 years ago. Brenda decided to cheat on Jim and got pregnant by another guy. Brenda is a drug addict and has been in and out of rehab all of her life. The state was going to take her baby away and Jim stepped in and became a foster parent and then adopted the baby. I give credit to Jim since it is not his biological child and the result of his girlfriend cheating on him.

Brenda in the mean time has had 3 more children all with different men. Each one of them has been taken away by the state and put in foster care. Here is where my encounter begins. Sunday I was in the grocery store and I saw Amy. It was great to see her and low and behold in her cart was the cutest 1 and a ½ year old boy. She looked at me kind of awkwardly (she knows my IF history) and I asked her who the little boy was. She said it was Brendas 5th child. (by the way Brenda is 39 years old) The baby was actually a twin and one of them was lost midway through the pregnancy. The child she had with her was born at 2 pounds and was addicted to heroin and cocaine. It was born a premie and it was touch and go for some time but he is doing well now and is 18 months old. I asked where the father was and Amy said he is died in a gang shooting. Amy has decided to adopt the child. I was floored. She only planned on being a foster parent for 2 months but she fell in love with the baby during that time. Can you blame her?

Amy and I talked for about an hour on how unfair life is and how she thinks of me all the time. How DH and I are such a great couple and we cannot have a child. Why???? God has some explaining to do we said. How can a woman like Brenda have 6 children and not blink an eye to see them get taken away?

And get this. Brenda is now pregnant with her 6th child and is in rehab.

I cant stop thinking of this. I dont know how to make sense of it. I am sure you all can relate but since we stopped TTC it just stabs me in the heart. I think I just needed to vent so thanks for listening.

First of all, I can't tell you how my heart aches for all that you have been through. It REALLY and TRULY is not fair!! No way is God handing out babies based upon whom is the most deserving!!! Unfortunaetly, it does not work that way. I try to look at it this way...it is my beleif that everyone has their own trial or trials in life. We may have to deal with infertility, but we have no idea what other people are dealing with in their lives. It might be far worse. For myself, I am now pursuing donor eggs and that has eased the pain of it all somewhat, but I do occassioanlly feel like you do..the unfairness of it all is hard to miss. Makes you wonder.

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone or crazy for feeling and thinking the way that you do. Some things are just not explainable. I hope you find peace of mind soon.
Reply
Share

Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

June 5th, 2012, 7:07 pm #5

I totally and completely hear you. Maybe your encounter would open your heart to adoption? I totally get it's not fair. I so so understand that and feel the same way. But your phrase: How could you not? makes me think your heart might be open to revisiting other paths to motherhood.
I personally think if possible, DE is infinitely better than adoption.

Lots of children given up for adoption domestically are from family of very compromised situations, drug addicts, criminal background etc. Very few are lucky enough to secure a baby from Steve Jobs' birth parents. So many infants that are adopted very young have developmental problems, and the medical bill can easily break a middle class family with decent income, for faults not of their own. You don't hear about these stories often because they are politically incorrect to publish, and it is against the interest of the entire adoption industry. If you adopt an older child, usually they come with years of emotional abuse, and not everyone is up to the task of taking care of them.

If someone wants adoption, I think international adoption is actually better, because the babies are usually in better health. In some countries like China, they are only given up because they are girls, not because the father is in jail and the mom is in rehab.
Reply
Like
Share

DeeinNYC
DeeinNYC

June 5th, 2012, 7:53 pm #6

I am a bit offended by your post and I respect much of what you have to say. This post just rubbed me the wrong way. Whose to say that Steve Job's birth parents are any better than the next? There are people in jail that are smarter than many people that I know. This I know firsthand. It's about oppporunity and access. Some people never had access. It does not mean that somehow they are "less than," not as good as, or not as smart as the next person. To whom we are born is purely an accident of birth. If a child has developmental issues, you will usually know about it if it is known at the time of adoption. Of course, there is a risk of the unknown or the unreported, but IMHO,I think what you speak of is the exception and not the rule as far as adopted kids. I persoanlly do not think that international adoption is better. I would much rather see the kids here in the United States being adopted. I do however understand that this is not possible for many or that it would take longer for many to do so or there are other reasons why that can't be done.
Reply
Share

Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

June 5th, 2012, 9:35 pm #7

I am talking about health issues caused by parents' reckless behaviors, and no, you won't know by the time you adopt, because you simply cannot identify such issues so early (unless you adopt when the child is 3 or 4).

I personally know a victim family who unfortunately adopted a mentally compromised child because of birth mother's drug habits, and I can tell you they wish they never adopted, because now they are stuck.
Reply
Like
Share

wanttwo
wanttwo

June 5th, 2012, 9:53 pm #8



I used to post on these boards several years ago when my DH and I were going through our IF journey. Just a short history of us is we tried for 6 years with countless natural cycles, 3 IUIs and 6 IVFs. All BFN. None of the IVFs were covered by insurance because by the time I starting doing the IVFs I was over 40. We decided a few months ago we were done TTC. We both are emotionally (and financially) spent. We need to live our lives. We mainly decided because of our age. I am almost 44 and he will be 46. I am still in the process of grieving and I am sure I will be for some time. We contemplated DE and adoption but our heart is not in it (nor do we have the finances).

I wanted to post because of an encounter I had with a friend the other day. It made me question life and the whole universe really. You will understand when I explain the story. It is kind of a confusing so hopefully I explain it ok.

I have a friend named (Amy) who I went to high school with. Most recently I got to know her again because she lived down the street from me. I have since moved, 3 years ago, and we lost touch again. She is a really great person. She is my age and has 3 grown boys (all in the military) and her youngest is a girl around 14. Her brother in law, Jim, was dating a girl named Brenda about 10 years ago. Brenda decided to cheat on Jim and got pregnant by another guy. Brenda is a drug addict and has been in and out of rehab all of her life. The state was going to take her baby away and Jim stepped in and became a foster parent and then adopted the baby. I give credit to Jim since it is not his biological child and the result of his girlfriend cheating on him.

Brenda in the mean time has had 3 more children all with different men. Each one of them has been taken away by the state and put in foster care. Here is where my encounter begins. Sunday I was in the grocery store and I saw Amy. It was great to see her and low and behold in her cart was the cutest 1 and a ½ year old boy. She looked at me kind of awkwardly (she knows my IF history) and I asked her who the little boy was. She said it was Brendas 5th child. (by the way Brenda is 39 years old) The baby was actually a twin and one of them was lost midway through the pregnancy. The child she had with her was born at 2 pounds and was addicted to heroin and cocaine. It was born a premie and it was touch and go for some time but he is doing well now and is 18 months old. I asked where the father was and Amy said he is died in a gang shooting. Amy has decided to adopt the child. I was floored. She only planned on being a foster parent for 2 months but she fell in love with the baby during that time. Can you blame her?

Amy and I talked for about an hour on how unfair life is and how she thinks of me all the time. How DH and I are such a great couple and we cannot have a child. Why???? God has some explaining to do we said. How can a woman like Brenda have 6 children and not blink an eye to see them get taken away?

And get this. Brenda is now pregnant with her 6th child and is in rehab.

I cant stop thinking of this. I dont know how to make sense of it. I am sure you all can relate but since we stopped TTC it just stabs me in the heart. I think I just needed to vent so thanks for listening.

We have been trying to conceive for almost 2 years and although that's not long but it feels like forever to me considering I still haven't seen a BFP yet. When I see women hanging around in the streets with stringy hair, 5 teeth, ciggie in mouth, huge pregger bellies and holding signs asking for money or whatever, I have to shake my head and try not to get upset seeing a woman who disrespects herself and mistreats her body and doesn't even think about the future of her children. Mir is right that some women are built better for producing just like there are people that are taller, shorter, more athletic, fatter, etc. Surely, it does help that she probably had her first several kids at a younger age than when we started conceiving (for us, maybe early to mid-thirties or when we thought we would be financially and emotionally ready) and that better prepared her body to keep producing. Maybe her body has a great memory to reproduce after the first one. Don't forget that she has multiple partners in her lifetime. Men are 40% of the equation. Her chances of conception probably increase with so many different partners as there is less to worry about morphology, motility, etc.

My take on this is that even though Brenda has all these kids, so what? I feel sorry for those kids and what they will go through with different dads, wondering if their Mom is still alive, possible development issues, and a bunch of dysfunctional issues the family will have to deal with together. I really don't think she was dealt a lucky card from up there. Most people that are dealing with hard-core drug addiction are living in 24/7 hell and don't really get to see old age or if they're lucky, middle-age. The developmental and mental issues her children will be dealing with will be telling when they hit their teens.

Anon, do not be phased by Brenda's situation. Some people get things easily than others and some don't. I think we always have a hard time getting what we want when we focus on it so much. I don't understand why some women in their 40s can just have a baby within 3 months after they decide to have a baby. Is it because they are so focused on other things that they don't stress about it and result in no hormonal balances? Or could they just be that lucky? Most women I know conceived when they weren't worried about it even though they tried before with OPK sticks with no luck. I know it sounds cliche but it seems true based on real life friends and family that were able to have kids. The ones I know that don't have kids are the ones that either don't want them or they have it on their mind 24/7. Those that wanted kids and couldn't have them eventually adopted (internationally and they were babies) or just left themselves as couples. REs tell me the chance of DEIVF is 50% success. Only you and your husband should decide what your next steps will be. Don't give up. You can still try with your own. A lady I met three years ago told me that her 47yo friend just gave birth to her own baby using her own eggs. She just met and married a man less than a year ago. I was floored b/c back then I didn't think it was possible. My RE also did IVF for this other lady at 45 and it didn't work. She got pregnant naturally after that and gave birth at 46. Her own eggs. Not sure if you should try DHEA, CoQ10, or whatever but the most important thing is to take care of yourself: Sleep early, sleep enough, eat well, eat natural, keep fit, get out into the sun, focus on your happiness and your hubby, keep busy with a great job or career, and hopefully things will fall into place. If you are to go on a journey, don't make that journey a tortuous one. Easy to say but hard to do but your mind really controls a lot of things in your body. My IF journey was a complete wreck for almost 2 years but I'm not going to let it kill me off and rob my soul. Keep your goal in sight but don't let it take over your life. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Reply
Share

DeeinNYC
DeeinNYC

June 5th, 2012, 10:03 pm #9

I am talking about health issues caused by parents' reckless behaviors, and no, you won't know by the time you adopt, because you simply cannot identify such issues so early (unless you adopt when the child is 3 or 4).

I personally know a victim family who unfortunately adopted a mentally compromised child because of birth mother's drug habits, and I can tell you they wish they never adopted, because now they are stuck.
and that would have made sense had you not mentioned people with a criminal background and Steve Job's parents. Mentioning Steve Jobs implies "smarts" and brilliance to me and not good healthy living and behaviors. Having a criminal background is not one in the same with being an addict or having mental issues although they may indeed go hand in hand. I'm not even sure where the idea that most parents that give up their children for adoption are criminals, addicts or reckless came from. Of course a child born to an addict or someone with mental health issues may very well have these issues too. This is usually disclosed in the medical records of the birth mother but sometimes it is not. It is a shame when things happen and adoptive parents have to deal with these issues, however, I don't think that what I believe are the minority of cases should be used to turn people off of domestic adoption. The irony of all of this is that Steve Jobs was adopted!!

Reply
Share

Sara Q (from the other board)
Sara Q (from the other board)

June 6th, 2012, 12:05 am #10

I personally think if possible, DE is infinitely better than adoption.

Lots of children given up for adoption domestically are from family of very compromised situations, drug addicts, criminal background etc. Very few are lucky enough to secure a baby from Steve Jobs' birth parents. So many infants that are adopted very young have developmental problems, and the medical bill can easily break a middle class family with decent income, for faults not of their own. You don't hear about these stories often because they are politically incorrect to publish, and it is against the interest of the entire adoption industry. If you adopt an older child, usually they come with years of emotional abuse, and not everyone is up to the task of taking care of them.

If someone wants adoption, I think international adoption is actually better, because the babies are usually in better health. In some countries like China, they are only given up because they are girls, not because the father is in jail and the mom is in rehab.
Hi there,

I just wanted to offer up a first-hand perspective on adoption since we are in the process of adoption, have done a ton of research on adoption, and just completed our home study.

1) There are many, many domestic babies to adopt in the U.S. that are not born to drug addicted nor incarcerated parents. In fact, many adoption agencies flat out won't take babies whose birth parents are in that situation. (I know that it is sometimes not disclosed, but if you are doing an open or semi-open adoption, as adoptive parents, you are able to get a feel for the adoptive parents yourself.)

2) When it comes to health problems internally adoptive children are definitely NOT in better shape overall than domestically adoptive children. First of all, most internationally adopted children cannot be adopted until at least 18 months are usually in an orphanage until then. Very bad things can happen in an orphanages, and especially in the case of China, they are very secretive about what goes on there. Moreover, medical professionals deem that a child that has been abused as an intact or toddler is usually in for a lot harder road than one whose parents did drugs but spent his/her infancy in a loving environment.

3) Just because one's parents did not live healthy or have been incarcerated does NOT determine what will happen to the child. (Except perhaps in cases of severe brain damage.) For example, one of my friends was adopted domestically as an infant - his birthmother was a drug addict and in jail and his birthfather was also in jail. Today he is a well-adjusted, extremely kind, Harvard PhD.

It is obvious that I am probably pretty sensitive to the myths floating out there about adoption considering we are about to do it. But even if we weren't and even if we end up pregnant and don't adopt until child #2 - I would still advocate for a more balanced understanding of the realities of adoption. True, it's a scary thing to do something with so many "unknown variables." But as my husband and I often laugh about - whether or not a child is genetically (or even biologically as in DE) related to you does NOT mean that a child will turn out "a certain way" - I would venture to guess that it doesn't even make it more likely. (We both have plenty of maladjusted family members on both sides of our family that seem to support that idea. )

I know it's a very difficult and personal decision to decide that raising a child well is more important than the genetic or biological connection. And I don't expect ANYONE to be in that place unless they are really ready for it. (Somedays, it's still a struggle for me.) But it is important to be well informed of what all the options are when it comes to having a child.

And for me and DH, raising a child, no matter how that child comes to us, is the most important thing we can do.

Best,
Sara Q
Reply
Share


Confirmation of reply: