Sharing Kato Clinic's Supplement list for older women

Sharing Kato Clinic's Supplement list for older women

MIR
MIR

June 22nd, 2012, 4:46 pm #1

Here is what I found out from someone 40+ that goes to Kato and found success. They routinely recommend certain blend of supplements that are targeted to improve mitochondrion, so these supplements are actually proven mitochondrial nutrients. The label of the product says that it is evidenced to improve egg quality (I haven't found the research paper on this, hopefully it is published in English)

That particular lab-quality blend is only sold within Japan, but here are the ingredients

CoQ10 (Kaneka QH) 50mg - I think you can get this in the US, my Healthy Origins uses Kaneka
L'Carnitine - 200mg
alpha lipoic acid 50mg
Resveratrol 5mg

The mg stated above is the weight of the purified ingredients themselves, as opposed to the packaging mg.

Here is the website for this product, it is called IVF supplement, all ingredients made in Japan or USA
http://www.nature-g.com/shohin/naturesgift/07.html#
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TenaciousB
TenaciousB

June 22nd, 2012, 6:05 pm #2

Thanks for sharing this!

I already take the Q10 and resveratrol. I didn't realize resveratrol helped egg quality, but that's a bonus! I'll probably add L'Carnitine & alpha lipoic acid as well. I'm already a major a pill popper! Another couple antioxidants couldn't hurt
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Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

June 22nd, 2012, 7:22 pm #3

for age 40-44, blast formation rate per retrieved embryo is 49.5% for natural fertilization and 40% for ICSI! Then, the frozen blast transfer has a live birth rate of 17.7%!

Which means, for every embryo retrieved, the live birth rate is 8.8%. Now if you do this for 12 cycles straight, your cumulative live birth rate is 67% (1-(1-0.088)^12).

I am all for 67% live birth rate over 12 cycles. In fact, from what I read, for all the women even in the mid-40s cycling there, as long as they keep cycling for 12-24 months, almost all of them walk away with a baby, which I think is evidenced by Alexis Stewart's experience.

Btw, the above data is for high FSH/DOR poor responders like myself, because only people like us would go for mini-IVF instead of one grand round of CCRM conventional IVF.

This is a game about patience and repeated cycling at a top lab that can grow blasts.
Last edited by miraclex2 on June 22nd, 2012, 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

June 22nd, 2012, 7:41 pm #4

I know 3 data points including myself:

Me age 42.5 38% over 4 cycles
Patient B age 42 75% over 2 cycles
Patient C age 44 50% over 8 cycles (she can't retrieve eggs each cycle)
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Kim
Kim

June 22nd, 2012, 8:31 pm #5

Here is what I found out from someone 40+ that goes to Kato and found success. They routinely recommend certain blend of supplements that are targeted to improve mitochondrion, so these supplements are actually proven mitochondrial nutrients. The label of the product says that it is evidenced to improve egg quality (I haven't found the research paper on this, hopefully it is published in English)

That particular lab-quality blend is only sold within Japan, but here are the ingredients

CoQ10 (Kaneka QH) 50mg - I think you can get this in the US, my Healthy Origins uses Kaneka
L'Carnitine - 200mg
alpha lipoic acid 50mg
Resveratrol 5mg

The mg stated above is the weight of the purified ingredients themselves, as opposed to the packaging mg.

Here is the website for this product, it is called IVF supplement, all ingredients made in Japan or USA
http://www.nature-g.com/shohin/naturesgift/07.html#
Thanks for sharing the info! Resveratrol is in red wine so maybe we should be drinking up!
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DeeinNYC
DeeinNYC

June 22nd, 2012, 8:35 pm #6

for age 40-44, blast formation rate per retrieved embryo is 49.5% for natural fertilization and 40% for ICSI! Then, the frozen blast transfer has a live birth rate of 17.7%!

Which means, for every embryo retrieved, the live birth rate is 8.8%. Now if you do this for 12 cycles straight, your cumulative live birth rate is 67% (1-(1-0.088)^12).

I am all for 67% live birth rate over 12 cycles. In fact, from what I read, for all the women even in the mid-40s cycling there, as long as they keep cycling for 12-24 months, almost all of them walk away with a baby, which I think is evidenced by Alexis Stewart's experience.

Btw, the above data is for high FSH/DOR poor responders like myself, because only people like us would go for mini-IVF instead of one grand round of CCRM conventional IVF.

This is a game about patience and repeated cycling at a top lab that can grow blasts.
You need normal embryos. A precious commodity in our age group I made 12 blasts over 3 cycles at the age of 44 and no take home babies. The ones that stuck were abnormal. I think I've mentioned this before but I used to follow a huge thread with CCRM patients. In our age group, making blasts does not seem to equate into very many normal embryos in our age group. It's just the reality of our situation. It does happen for some, but not most. It's also misleading to group these stats together. The fertility of a 42 year old is quite different than that of the fertility of a 40 or 44 year old. I don't think this is something that you can just throw money at and come out on top. As for Alexis Stewart, you know I think she used DE's. I don't even want to get into the wisdom of doing 24 cycles unless they are completely natural. I also don't think that you can assume only high FSH'ers or DOR patients do mini-IVF. Many do it for the low cost and low or no drugs. My bottom line is this- ability to make blasts or not, ability to produce a large number of follies or not, age will always be the greatest determining factor in whether or not one will get a take home baby.

Not trying to be a downer, but this is just how I see it.
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Kim
Kim

June 22nd, 2012, 8:43 pm #7

Agreed!! My take is it is plain luck on whether the cycle you choose to do IVF has a golden egg. Even if you hit a good egg, it may not implant! Not being a downer either but it still is nice to hear some positive stats for 4O+ crowd!! I still believe you can do the supps, like ubiquitol, and vitamins and push luck in your favor!

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Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

June 22nd, 2012, 10:31 pm #8

You need normal embryos. A precious commodity in our age group I made 12 blasts over 3 cycles at the age of 44 and no take home babies. The ones that stuck were abnormal. I think I've mentioned this before but I used to follow a huge thread with CCRM patients. In our age group, making blasts does not seem to equate into very many normal embryos in our age group. It's just the reality of our situation. It does happen for some, but not most. It's also misleading to group these stats together. The fertility of a 42 year old is quite different than that of the fertility of a 40 or 44 year old. I don't think this is something that you can just throw money at and come out on top. As for Alexis Stewart, you know I think she used DE's. I don't even want to get into the wisdom of doing 24 cycles unless they are completely natural. I also don't think that you can assume only high FSH'ers or DOR patients do mini-IVF. Many do it for the low cost and low or no drugs. My bottom line is this- ability to make blasts or not, ability to produce a large number of follies or not, age will always be the greatest determining factor in whether or not one will get a take home baby.

Not trying to be a downer, but this is just how I see it.
You are right in saying that a blast doesn't equal a normal embryo, but a blast is better than no blast. It is a step closer to success than further away. The abnormal ratio of blast is lower than that of embryo, as proven by research papers. Yes, you still get abnormal embryos among blasts but you've already weeded out the weakest. Those embryos that don't make blasts have no chance at a competent lab.

However, you and I differ in the way that I do believe this is a numbers game. If I had all the money in the world, I would choose to cycle every month till I hit menopause, and I think that will almost guarantee me at least one live birth.
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Bea
Bea

June 22nd, 2012, 11:17 pm #9

Here is what I found out from someone 40+ that goes to Kato and found success. They routinely recommend certain blend of supplements that are targeted to improve mitochondrion, so these supplements are actually proven mitochondrial nutrients. The label of the product says that it is evidenced to improve egg quality (I haven't found the research paper on this, hopefully it is published in English)

That particular lab-quality blend is only sold within Japan, but here are the ingredients

CoQ10 (Kaneka QH) 50mg - I think you can get this in the US, my Healthy Origins uses Kaneka
L'Carnitine - 200mg
alpha lipoic acid 50mg
Resveratrol 5mg

The mg stated above is the weight of the purified ingredients themselves, as opposed to the packaging mg.

Here is the website for this product, it is called IVF supplement, all ingredients made in Japan or USA
http://www.nature-g.com/shohin/naturesgift/07.html#
Thanks for posting!
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Anonymous
Anonymous

June 23rd, 2012, 6:53 am #10

You are right in saying that a blast doesn't equal a normal embryo, but a blast is better than no blast. It is a step closer to success than further away. The abnormal ratio of blast is lower than that of embryo, as proven by research papers. Yes, you still get abnormal embryos among blasts but you've already weeded out the weakest. Those embryos that don't make blasts have no chance at a competent lab.

However, you and I differ in the way that I do believe this is a numbers game. If I had all the money in the world, I would choose to cycle every month till I hit menopause, and I think that will almost guarantee me at least one live birth.
MIR, are there risks at all with cycling continuously for years? Do we need to be worried about any risks or are the worries just in our heads? Does the Kato clinic talk about any of risks?
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