Kevin Saucier Has Spoken

Kevin Saucier Has Spoken

Joined: February 13th, 2006, 1:34 am

September 10th, 2008, 12:30 pm #1

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples



Last edited by jacklitsch on September 12th, 2008, 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 16th, 2004, 1:34 am

September 10th, 2008, 12:56 pm #2

Will then...Would SGC re-grade it and list
it w/ the underprint?
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Joined: March 19th, 2006, 2:19 am

September 10th, 2008, 1:10 pm #3

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


I hate to throw doubt on Kevin's opinion.....

but I am still not buying it.



If anyone would like to send me that card -
to get a print professional's opinion on when / how ink was put down -
feel free to contact me.


If Kevin is reading....
please email me to let me know what the evidence is that removes all doubt ("without a doubt").
How exactly do you know the ink of the cigar logo came first?
I would love to hear that evidence.


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Joined: December 13th, 2004, 5:18 am

September 10th, 2008, 1:27 pm #4

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


Sure didn't (and still doesn't) look like an "underprint" to me.
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Joined: September 4th, 2007, 1:25 am

September 10th, 2008, 1:33 pm #5

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-SCHLEI-WITH-RA ... 0293183591

More detail from Kevin:

"I received the card today and gave it a very thorough inspection, spending about an hour on it. It is more than obvious that that cigar logo print is under the Sweet Caporal printing. I can go one step further and say that the print is well under the Sweet Cap. I use the term print because it does not seem to be a stamp. If you take a very close picture at an extreme angle you may be able to display it more accurately.

I am no paper or printing expert but having dissected hundreds of T206 cards I can tell you that not only can the front picture be lifted off but the back can as well....although using a much different technique. The cigar logo print appears to be under the ultra-thin layer of paper (or printing layer). Because of this it has the color is lighter in the areas without paper loss. In the section where there is paper loss, the color cigar logo is darker or bolder as a result of being exposed.

The paper loss is deeper in the middle of the card and thins over the cigar print, leaving the print virtually intact but small sections also have minor paper loss. The cigar print logo does not show (even faintly) on the front of the card. My thought is that the front picture was applied after the print had dried.

I will be sending the card back with your check, since I have yet to charge any collector. I am also including a thin paper piece of a Sweet Cap card back I made so you can get a better idea of what I'm trying to explain. Hold this piece into a light or the sun and you can see the print in reverse. Believe it or not, I would consider it a thick piece.

Hope this helps you and/or everyone else who had question about the cigar logo with the Sweet Cap overprint. Feel free to post this email anywhere you wish.

All the best,

Kevin Saucier"
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Joined: March 15th, 2003, 4:17 am

September 10th, 2008, 1:44 pm #6

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


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Joined: June 14th, 2005, 2:29 am

September 10th, 2008, 1:57 pm #7

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


10k lol


Steve





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Joined: September 14th, 2001, 4:18 am

September 10th, 2008, 2:36 pm #8

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


Even if it is an "underprint" someone said it best last week when they said,who cares,what does United Cigars have to do with t206's. If it is a "underprint" then technically its just a low grade t206 that was printed on used paper due to poor quality control at the factory. Leon has a card with about 10 "underprints" all having something to do with t206's (post a scan here Leon so we can see the messy card). If the united cigars card,which rightfully didnt get a bid at $1500 is now worth $10k then Leon's card is now worth close to $100k,Luckey him.

All I'm willing to concede at this point is that the card is a sweet caporal overprint on a black back card. Blank back cards are pretty rare among t206's as most people know, so to find one with a sweet caporal overprint like this card is more exciting to me and thats how I would market the card.
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Joined: October 13th, 2006, 4:14 pm

September 10th, 2008, 2:55 pm #9

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


Is it just me that sees the Croft candy logo similarity?

<img BORDER="5" src=http://www.cincitec.com/images/ebay/54/pinnew.JPG>

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 10th, 2008, 3:12 pm #10

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child) Re: what do you guys make of this t206? September 10 2008, 1:39 AM


Hi all,

I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap.

The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well.

It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.


Kevin

------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples


For my money I would still like to get a printing expert's opinion, no offense to Kevin. The card had to have paper loss on it when the "stamp" was put onto it. Personally, I think it is worth even less with the cigar stamp...maybe $5-$10.....but only as a filler. Now, if we could get some fried chicken thrown in then the price would maybe go up to about $2000.00.....but only if it's extra crispy. Yummy!!

John- here is the overprint. I will sell it for 90k but if I have Kevin deem it legitimate I will have to ask about $1 million....

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