Search For Wtc 7 South Upper And Lower Lobby Photo

Search For Wtc 7 South Upper And Lower Lobby Photo

Ferric Oxide
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Ferric Oxide
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May 17 2007, 05:02 PM #1

This subject matter is worthy of a separate thread as in my opinion, it is one of the keys to determining what went on in and around the south lobby of building 7 prior to and after the collapses of both WTC towers.

Here is what we have so far:



Willie Cirone;






Now, debunkers might suggest that the photographer did not turn to his right to snap a photo of the WTC 7 lobby area "close-up" because there was too much debris, or that it was too dangerous, or something like that. However, this bit of denial is not plausible as according to NIST, the conditions in the lobby area of building 7were as follows:

First: Debris damage to Building 7 after the collapse of WTC 2:
NIST:
1-Some south face glass broken at lower floors

2-Dust covered lobby areas at floors 1 and 3

3-No fires observed

Second: Debris damage to Building 7 after the collapse of WTC 1:
NIST:
1-Heavy debris on Vesey Street and WTC 7 Promenade

2-No heavy debris observed in lobby area, white dust coating

3-SW corner damage-floors 8 to 18

4-South face damage between two exterior columns-roof level, down to 5 to 10 floors, extent not known

5-South face damage:
a-middle 1/4-1/3 width south face, 10th
b-large debris hole near center around 14th
c-1/4 width south face, above 5th floor, atrium glass intact
d-8th/9th floor from inside, visible south wall gone with more damage to west, 2 elevator cars dislodged into elevator lobby

NIST PDF which states that there was "no heavy debris in lobby area" [of building 7]

Again, I challenge ANYONE to find ONE photo of the Building 7 lower and/or upper lobby areas (reasonably close-up) and video from throughout the day on September 11, 2001.



Above: the Vesey Street Bridge is clearly in view, as is the east corner of building 7. (We are facing WTC 5 and 6. Note: that I believe that there are several unpublished photos of the lobby area of building 7 that we must locate and post immediately.)

Below is yet another photo of the south side of building 7 seen as the smoke from WTC 5 and 6 rising up to the building.



Here is another Vesey street photo. Building 7 is not in view. The photo shows Building 5 and 6 on the left with the pedestrian bridge in view. Based on other photos, it seems that the North Tower has already collapsed. Still I have not found a picture of the lobby are of building 7 throughout the day. Remember that NIST stated that after the collapse of the north tower that there was "heavy debris on Vesey Street and WTC 7 Promenade," which we see in many photos, but that there was "no heavy debris observed in lobby area," which we can't see as we haven't located photos from the lobby are of building 7 taken by Cirone, Spak or anyone.

"Non-attribution to the United States for covert operations was the original and principal purpose of the so-called doctrine of "plausible denial." Evidence before the Committee clearly demonstrates that this concept, designed to protect the United States and its operatives from the consequences of disclosures, has been expanded to mask decisions of the president and his senior staff members." --Church Committee
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xBIGGSx
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xBIGGSx
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May 18 2007, 03:40 AM #2

Ferric Oxide @ May 17 2007, 12:02 PM wrote:
I find this picture interesting because it shows that only light debris (the huge cloud of smoke) reached just ONE side of WTC 7 yet the government claims that the fires in the building were started by falling debris from WTC 1. Did anybody see a flaming cloud of smoke? If there was fire in the debris then why would it not ignite Bankers Trust whose entire building was within the light debris zone?
"Ah...there's nothing like the smell of cordite in the morning"
-Donald Rumsfeld, September 11, 2001
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Ferric Oxide
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May 18 2007, 05:39 PM #3

So are you telling me that there is not ONE---NOT ONE publically available photograph or video clip of the upper and/or lower lobby ares of building 7 from ANYTIME during the day of September 11, 2001.

---There was a temporary triage center in the lobby--Where are the photos?

---There was a major evacuation---Where are the photos?

---Willie Cirone was a mere few feet from the building lobby---Where are the photos?

---The CIA had the area scoured for documents after the collapse---Where are the photos?


THESE are the photos and video we need to truely find out what went on in and around building 7. These will quell any attempts at exercising "plausible denial." This is the key.


Remember, I am looking for ANY photos of that area after the WTC 1 strike, after the WTC 2 strike, after the WTC2 collapse, or after the WTC 1 collapse.
"Non-attribution to the United States for covert operations was the original and principal purpose of the so-called doctrine of "plausible denial." Evidence before the Committee clearly demonstrates that this concept, designed to protect the United States and its operatives from the consequences of disclosures, has been expanded to mask decisions of the president and his senior staff members." --Church Committee
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Ferric Oxide
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May 18 2007, 08:32 PM #4

A WTC 7 Division of a triage center was established at 9:30 am

FDNY
Where are the photos?
"Non-attribution to the United States for covert operations was the original and principal purpose of the so-called doctrine of "plausible denial." Evidence before the Committee clearly demonstrates that this concept, designed to protect the United States and its operatives from the consequences of disclosures, has been expanded to mask decisions of the president and his senior staff members." --Church Committee
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e^n
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May 19 2007, 01:14 PM #5

I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)
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miragememories
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miragememories
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May 20 2007, 07:37 PM #6

e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM wrote:I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)
I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM
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e^n
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May 21 2007, 02:01 AM #7

miragememories @ May 20 2007, 02:37 PM wrote:
e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM wrote:I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)
I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM
I think that was for everything, still $17000 is nothing! I can contribute up to $100 of that easily and there are plenty enough people in the 'truther' community to collect that.

Has anyone set up any trustable way to donate towards this?
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waterdancer
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May 21 2007, 09:14 AM #8

Video footage showing that area between the two collapses is available. Watch the ATF employee wave the cameraman away, walk under the promenade, triage area, etc.

NBC broadcast footage (15 min. mark or so) from that area and time of day at least once, the BBC footage of that area was broadcast a lot- the earliest time I'm aware of that footage being shown by the BBC was around 11:44. I doubt it was ever broadcast live, but it's still footage. Of course, we still don't have the key, which is footage or pics AFTER the north tower collapsed. Those are the money shots. ;)

This pic below is the closest I've seen to what you're looking for. Not much closer than the other Cirone pictures, but if you squint and use your imagination a bit, I think you can just make out some broken glass on the south face of WTC 7. of course with all the somewhat to extremely light reflective surfaces (including the south side of WTC 7, the bottom of the pedestrian bridge and the glassed in railing by the bent propeller) it's difficult to say exactly what's what.

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miragememories
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miragememories
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May 21 2007, 02:29 PM #9

e^n @ May 21 2007, 02:01 AM wrote:
miragememories @ May 20 2007, 02:37 PM wrote:
e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM wrote:I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)
I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM
I think that was for everything, still $17000 is nothing! I can contribute up to $100 of that easily and there are plenty enough people in the 'truther' community to collect that.

Has anyone set up any trustable way to donate towards this?
I believe with that price comes a form of non-disclosure agreement.

It's not as simple as a group collecting the funds and then openly disseminating the images throughout the internet.

MM
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e^n
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e^n
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May 21 2007, 03:11 PM #10

miragememories @ May 21 2007, 09:29 AM wrote: I believe with that price comes a form of non-disclosure agreement.

It's not as simple as a group collecting the funds and then openly disseminating the images throughout the internet.

MM
The FOIA requests on NIST Review don't seem to have any NDA requirements but even so, as long as there's an independent person we both agree on to look at them we can get accurate assessments of damage amount etc.
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peterabbit
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May 23 2007, 06:44 AM #11

miragememories @ May 20 2007, 02:37 PM wrote:
e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM wrote:I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)
I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM
These photos are being withheld, because?


No nation has ever benefited from protracted warfare.
<IMG border="0" src="http://www.nationalterroralert.com/advisory7.gif"
<- These "alerts" are to keep you scared! They're all Fake!

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e^n
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May 23 2007, 08:51 AM #12

peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 01:44 AM wrote: These photos are being withheld, because?
Copyright?
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miragememories
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miragememories
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May 23 2007, 06:02 PM #13

No doubt the FBI are holding back all the security cam videos from the Pentagon event because of the copyrite concerns as well...lol.

MM
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peterabbit
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May 23 2007, 08:58 PM #14

e^n @ May 23 2007, 03:51 AM wrote:
peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 01:44 AM wrote: These photos are being withheld, because?
Copyright?
Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.
NIST @ Dec. 9, 2002 wrote:The team is especially interested in WTC 7 and views from the south and west faces of the towers. Anyone wishing to provide NIST with documents, photos or other materials
Source


No nation has ever benefited from protracted warfare.
<IMG border="0" src="http://www.nationalterroralert.com/advisory7.gif"
<- These "alerts" are to keep you scared! They're all Fake!

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e^n
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e^n
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May 23 2007, 10:02 PM #15

peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 03:58 PM wrote: Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.
Photographs belong to the person who takes them, because NIST can't claim copyright they can't distribute them as they see fit. It's entirely possible that &#036;17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.

Who knows, but i'm willing to put in plenty of cash to support getting them all released.
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peterabbit
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May 23 2007, 11:18 PM #16

e^n @ May 23 2007, 05:02 PM wrote: It's entirely possible that &#036;17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.
And it's entirely possible 911 was an inside job.

;)


No nation has ever benefited from protracted warfare.
<IMG border="0" src="http://www.nationalterroralert.com/advisory7.gif"
<- These "alerts" are to keep you scared! They're all Fake!

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DoYouEverWonder
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DoYouEverWonder
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May 24 2007, 12:45 AM #17

e^n @ May 23 2007, 05:02 PM wrote:
peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 03:58 PM wrote: Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.
Photographs belong to the person who takes them, because NIST can't claim copyright they can't distribute them as they see fit. It's entirely possible that &#036;17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.

Who knows, but i'm willing to put in plenty of cash to support getting them all released.
Not if the person was working for a government agency and it was his job to take pictures. NYPD has their own video unit that was at the WTC as soon as the attack started. Where are their pictures? Where are the hi res videos from the helicopters?
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behind
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behind
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May 24 2007, 01:52 AM #18

According to Steven Jones in Revisiting 9/11/2001 --Applying the Scientific Method:

"The
NIST report on WTC7 is long overdue. NIST does have photos and videos of the collapse of WTC 7
which they have refused to release despite Freedom of Information Act requests. The excuse is that
while they are still studying this, they will not release the videos and photos of WTC 7. These videos
and photos were obtained mainly from the public at tax payer expense and I strongly suggest the public
should have a chance to look at all the data and we can study this ourselves, thank you." (p.65)

www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/1 ... Method.pdf (2.25 MB)
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peterabbit
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May 24 2007, 11:42 PM #19

behind @ May 23 2007, 08:52 PM wrote: According to Steven Jones in Revisiting 9/11/2001 --Applying the Scientific Method:

"The
NIST report on WTC7 is long overdue. NIST does have photos and videos of the collapse of WTC 7
which they have refused to release despite Freedom of Information Act requests. The excuse is that
while they are still studying this, they will not release the videos and photos of WTC 7. These videos
and photos were obtained mainly from the public at tax payer expense and I strongly suggest the public
should have a chance to look at all the data and we can study this ourselves, thank you." (p.65)

www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/1 ... Method.pdf (2.25 MB)
Exactly!


No nation has ever benefited from protracted warfare.
<IMG border="0" src="http://www.nationalterroralert.com/advisory7.gif"
<- These "alerts" are to keep you scared! They're all Fake!

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chris sarns
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May 27 2007, 12:46 AM #20

On Feb. 6, i applied to NIST-FOIA for photographs and videos [near time of collapse] of the south east side of WTC 7 after the collapse of WTC 1.

On March 13, i got a reply saying i had been assigned to "all other requests"
which means the first 2 hours of search and duplication are free.
[no mention of copyright fees]

I requested an estimate and on May 16 i received a reply.

For &#036;239.25 [estimate] i can have them with these conditions:

Charges will be assessed weather or not responsive documents are located and weather or not any of these documents are exempt from disclosure under FOIA.

Sounds like a catch 22 to me.

I called back and they told me that there were 25 photographs and 2 videos [with sound] just before and during the collapse.

No photographs or videos will be released to anyone until the 'investigation' is complete.

No firm date for when this will happen. [maybe June]

I must gamble my &#036;239.25 within 30 days of May 16 or they will close my request and i will have to start over again.

BTW: The people at FOIA are friendly, helpful, and even apologetic about the rules.

When i told them that NIST published photos of every side and angle except the south east side, they understood my concern.

So, there are photographs of the south east side of WTC 7 but the government is using the 'investigation' as an excuse to withhold them from the public.
WTC 7 was a CD

FEMA 5-30 "the building imploded"

NIST L-33 "The debris of WTC 7 was mostly contained within the original footprint of the building."
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