Regarding Pittsburgh Indys

Regarding Pittsburgh Indys

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May 15th, 2012, 10:35 pm #1

I've noticed that a lot of the threads on this board turn sour and that is not my intention for this thread, despite the likely probability of that happening. I have been to both PWX (NWA-East) and IWC shows. I've noticed that IWC gets a lot of hate on this board and PWX gets less. Why?

I want to set aside all concerns about the promoters' attitudes or any backstage garbage and just look at the show quality of both promotions. At Crossfire, PWX had about nine matches and only one of them lasted longer than ten minutes and that match (Stryder/Brandon K) ended in a no contest. I'm sure there are a lot of great talents at PWX, but the way the shows are booked, it's difficult to see that talent shine through.

I'm by no means calling IWC perfect or "the best indy in the country," but they do give matches time and they do bring in a nice mix of outside talent while keeping the focus on the regular roster members. Super Indy, for instance, will feature Davey Richards, Chuck Taylor, and Sami Callihan, but not to the detriment of guys like John McChesney, Dalton Castle, and Matt Justice.

I guess my claim is that although IWC is far from perfect, they deserve more praise than PWX from AN IN-RING QUALITY PERSPECTIVE. I'm not making any claims about the attitudes or motives about anyone involved in running either promotion. I just thought we could have a nice discussion about the in-ring quality and show quality of both promotions. Maybe we can't have that discussion without it devolving into nonsense - I don't know.

Thanks for reading.
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May 15th, 2012, 10:46 pm #2

PWX runs Pittsburgh every other week. IWC only runs in the pgh area 4 to 6 times a year now along with running in Clearfield, West Virginia, Cal U, Franklin and from what I hear, soon Butler. PWX is Pittsburgh based, IWC travels around. Apples and oranges. Both offer a classier, more reectable product than RWA which only exists to give Feelbad a place to play wreslter every month and manage 4 matches out of 7.
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May 15th, 2012, 11:06 pm #3

As strange as it sounds, the ONLY promotion that runs in Pittsburgh is KSWA. In general people aren't willing to travel far to see entertainment in general. IWC runs Elizabeth and PWX runs McKeesport. IWC probably draws a bit more from the Pittsburgh area being a bit closer. I think KSWA has proven that Pittsburgh is a very hot market, and I know guys have been trying to get PWX or IWC to run in Pittsburgh for a while, and I think that market is their loss now. I have never been to a KSWA event, but from what I hear PWX and IWC would blow them out of the water as far as performance goes. So who knows the capability of a draw.

As far as IWC catching heat here more than PWX, I don't see that at all. I think they have a similar ratio of negative and positive posts on here. Some things about IWC are better than PWX, and some things about PWX are better than IWC. I do agree 100% that a negative in PWX is the lack of time the majority of the matches get. To me it makes it look like they are hiding the weaknesses or lack of ability that some of their wrestlers may have. Especially at bigger events, I think matches should be given more timing other than the Brandon K, Stryder or Amhurst matches, or in other words the main events. Most matches are less than 10 minutes and a lot of those matches are less than 10 including the entrances and exits.
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May 17th, 2012, 2:40 pm #4

So when ROH is coming in June and running the Ice Gardens, should they not advertise it as Pittsburgh? And when TNA ran the Ches-A-Arena should they have said Cheswick PA not Pittsburgh? Cone on man get serious. KSWA runs in a moose hall close to the city. Closer distance to the center of Pittsburgh doesn't make your product any better.
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May 18th, 2012, 7:07 pm #5

they certainly draw more than the others combined..just saying
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May 19th, 2012, 1:15 pm #6

.....Most (PWX) matches are less than 10 minutes and a lot of those matches are less than 10 including the entrances and exits.

I respectfully disagree, "most PWX matches" run on the average of 15-20 minutes. Yes "some" matches run about 10-15 minutes, but that's when the "youngsters" are involved. I feel the reason why the latter runs short is because of two reasons.

1. The youngsters don't have the stamina to go for 15-20 minutes.

2. Most importantly, who wants to see C-card wrestlers punch, kick, stomp, and use a sign to try and win a match. They bring either very little or no technical skills to the ring. The marks get very bored watching a bunch of yarders slug it out.

The seasoned veterans know what the people want and they give it to them, long matches, outstanding technical and scientific skills, also no signs of brawling. This is what the marks want to see, not amateurs who don't want to increase their repertoire of wrestling moves and rely on 5-6 cheap shots.

Maybe someday the yarders will realize they can't get by with this trash "they" call wrestling. They need to learn a NEW technical wrestling skill every week, and practice it until they know it. They also need to build up their bodies to show some kind of definition, NOT FAT.

Until these youngsters learn wrestling skills they will never make top spots in the PWX. Sure they can go to C-rated organizations and win belts but only when a seasoned veteran carries them.

They just don't get it. :-/
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May 21st, 2012, 1:52 am #7

So when ROH is coming in June and running the Ice Gardens, should they not advertise it as Pittsburgh? And when TNA ran the Ches-A-Arena should they have said Cheswick PA not Pittsburgh? Cone on man get serious. KSWA runs in a moose hall close to the city. Closer distance to the center of Pittsburgh doesn't make your product any better.
Q: So when ROH is coming in June and running the Ice Gardens, should they not advertise it as Pittsburgh?
A: Absolutely not. Rostraver Ice Garden is in Rostraver, Washington, County PA. Pittsburgh is a city in Allegheny County, PA.

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Q: And when TNA ran the Ches-A-Arena should they have said Cheswick PA not Pittsburgh?
A: No, but just a technicality. Cheswick is a borough in Allegheny County. The population was 1,746 at the 2010 census. Pittsburgh is the County seat of Allegheny County and the 2nd largest city in the State of Pennsylvania. The population was 305,704 in 2010.

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Q: Cone on man get serious. KSWA runs in a moose hall close to the city. Closer distance to the center of Pittsburgh doesn't make your product any better.
A: Lawrenceville is one of the largest neighborhoods in Pittsburgh in the U.S. state of Pennsylvania. It is located northeast of downtown, and like many of the city's riverfront neighborhoods, it has an industrial past. As for the product, if you dont like it, dont go.

PWX runs in McKeesport (a Mon Valley community 12 miles from Pittsburgh), RWA runs in Westmoreland County's West Newton (25 miles away from Pittsburgh), and IWC runs in Newell, WV, 42 miles from Pittsburgh.
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May 21st, 2012, 5:00 am #8

.....Most (PWX) matches are less than 10 minutes and a lot of those matches are less than 10 including the entrances and exits.

I respectfully disagree, "most PWX matches" run on the average of 15-20 minutes. Yes "some" matches run about 10-15 minutes, but that's when the "youngsters" are involved. I feel the reason why the latter runs short is because of two reasons.

1. The youngsters don't have the stamina to go for 15-20 minutes.

2. Most importantly, who wants to see C-card wrestlers punch, kick, stomp, and use a sign to try and win a match. They bring either very little or no technical skills to the ring. The marks get very bored watching a bunch of yarders slug it out.

The seasoned veterans know what the people want and they give it to them, long matches, outstanding technical and scientific skills, also no signs of brawling. This is what the marks want to see, not amateurs who don't want to increase their repertoire of wrestling moves and rely on 5-6 cheap shots.

Maybe someday the yarders will realize they can't get by with this trash "they" call wrestling. They need to learn a NEW technical wrestling skill every week, and practice it until they know it. They also need to build up their bodies to show some kind of definition, NOT FAT.

Until these youngsters learn wrestling skills they will never make top spots in the PWX. Sure they can go to C-rated organizations and win belts but only when a seasoned veteran carries them.

They just don't get it. :-/
Be more specific, because most of PWX guys are "youngsters" I would say. You have Brandon K, Mad Mike, Paul Atlas, Shirley Doe, Troy Lords, Scottie Gash, Crusher Hansen, Iron City as the vets, maybe even include Dash Bennett, and Chris Taylor. There are 31 guys on the roster though, thats just a list of 11, and I know you weren't saying everybody else sucked, but you were categorizing. If that many people in PWX suck, being more than half, then are you saying you or they should trim the roster? Or that the 11 vets are the only reason PWX is drawing bigger crowds. In my opinion, some of the guys just aren't anywhere where they used to be, but are still being treated like they were when they were in their prime. I think guys like Brandon K, Mad Mike, Atlas, and Doe are still capable of pulling off great matches, but some of the others just don't bring it to the table any more and haven't for a while. Every once in a while you might see a flash of something good from them. I agree that a lot of the younger talent needs to continue to step it up, but its just not fair to say they need to step it up, when a lot of the vets need to as well from what I have seen from the shows I have been to. Not many of the younger guys are technically skilled like you said, but not a whole lot of those vets are either and they've had 10+ years to work on it. You have guys like Brandon K, Atlas, and others who are skilled in that area, but I would honestly say PWX has just as many technically gifted vets as they do rookies. So categorizing and showing favorites doesn't really work in this case. I think just about everyone has been performing better and getting better though, so there really isn't a lot to complain about, some guys will get it faster than others, some guys might never get it at all.
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May 21st, 2012, 2:43 pm #9

Q: So when ROH is coming in June and running the Ice Gardens, should they not advertise it as Pittsburgh?
A: Absolutely not. Rostraver Ice Garden is in Rostraver, Washington, County PA. Pittsburgh is a city in Allegheny County, PA.

#######

Q: And when TNA ran the Ches-A-Arena should they have said Cheswick PA not Pittsburgh?
A: No, but just a technicality. Cheswick is a borough in Allegheny County. The population was 1,746 at the 2010 census. Pittsburgh is the County seat of Allegheny County and the 2nd largest city in the State of Pennsylvania. The population was 305,704 in 2010.

#######

Q: Cone on man get serious. KSWA runs in a moose hall close to the city. Closer distance to the center of Pittsburgh doesn't make your product any better.
A: Lawrenceville is one of the largest neighborhoods in Pittsburgh in the U.S. state of Pennsylvania. It is located northeast of downtown, and like many of the city's riverfront neighborhoods, it has an industrial past. As for the product, if you dont like it, dont go.

PWX runs in McKeesport (a Mon Valley community 12 miles from Pittsburgh), RWA runs in Westmoreland County's West Newton (25 miles away from Pittsburgh), and IWC runs in Newell, WV, 42 miles from Pittsburgh.
(quote)
Be more specific, because most of PWX guys are "youngsters" I would say. You have Brandon K, Mad Mike, Paul Atlas, Shirley Doe, Troy Lords, Scottie Gash, Crusher Hansen, Iron City as the vets, maybe even include Dash Bennett, and Chris Taylor. There are 31 guys on the roster though, thats just a list of 11, and I know you weren't saying everybody else sucked, but you were categorizing.
(/quote)

You want specifics? Here you go;

Top wrestlers in no specific order:
Stryder
Brandon K
Mad Mike
Jason Cage
Chris Taylor
Ryan Reign
Patrick Hayes
Apollyon
Crusher Hansen - has the moves, all he needs is to use them, lose the belly
Beast
Gator
Dean Radford - excellent power wrestler
Travis Fame - has the tools, he needs to use them
Shirley Doe - needs to lose the belly
Paul Atlas - excellent, but needs to lose the belly
Blue Dragon
Ashton Amherst - needs to step it up and use more technical instead of brawling

B-Card
Scottie Gash - has the wrestling ability but doesn't use it
Chris Lerusso - has the wrestling ability but doesn't use it
Troy Lords
Jay Flash - up and coming if he puts the effort in
Jack Pollock - up and coming if he puts the effort in

C-card
JR Mega - HAHAHAHA
Edric Everhart - nothing but brawling
Robert Parker Williams - find a buffet somewhere and EAT and take
Tony Johnson - with you
Dash Bennett - needs to push himself from the table
Keith Haught
Payton Graham - I have yet to see a technical move from him

The fat boy winners of the year
Keith Haught
Payton Graham
Dash Bennett

(quote)
If that many people in PWX suck, being more than half, then are you saying you or they should trim the roster? Or that the 11 vets are the only reason PWX is drawing bigger crowds. In my opinion, some of the guys just aren't anywhere where they used to be, but are still being treated like they were when they were in their prime. (/quote)

First, there's way more than 11, second the vets can step it up if they want to, sure some of them got fat, but they can lose it if they want too. I have seen them in their prime, they are mean, tough, SOB's. They can give anyone a "stiff" match any day.

(quote)
I think guys like Brandon K, Mad Mike, Atlas, and Doe are still capable of pulling off great matches, but some of the others just don't bring it to the table any more and haven't for a while. Every once in a while you might see a flash of something good from them. I agree that a lot of the younger talent needs to continue to step it up, but its just not fair to say they need to step it up, when a lot of the vets need to as well from what I have seen from the shows I have been to. (/quote)

I've seen what you mean. If they don't want to bring it, then maybe it time for them to retire. With the youngsters, if their not in the business to climb the ladder, what are they there for? I said it before this is a profession, not a game, it's a job, if you don't perform on the job you better start looking for another, because sooner or later you'll be fired.

(quote)
Not many of the younger guys are technically skilled like you said, but not a whole lot of those vets are either and they've had 10+ years to work on it. You have guys like Brandon K, Atlas, and others who are skilled in that area, but I would honestly say PWX has just as many technically gifted vets as they do rookies. So categorizing and showing favorites doesn't really work in this case. I think just about everyone has been performing better and getting better though, so there really isn't a lot to complain about, some guys will get it faster than others, some guys might never get it at all.(/quote)

Not playing favorites, I'm trying to put a fire under their asses. Call it tough training or whatever, but wrestling separates the men from the BOYS. If your in it for the glamor, then get the hell out. It's just like any other job, your a worker, if you want to keep working PERFORM. If you want to climb the ladder, you keep putting forth the effort and keep stepping it up.

Take Stryder, Brandon K & Jason Cage as examples, you can tell they hit the gym more than once a week. They learn and perfect their moves and use them in matches. They're not using or rely on 5-6 cheap shots to win the match. They use pure technical scientific wrestling. This is what the marks want to see.

Sure a little brawling can come into play, but this IS PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, not a bar fight.

All this being said, I still think PWX is the BEST organization in Pittsburgh, but I feel PWX can be the best in the state, also for the entire east coast. If the wrestlers step it up and give 100% every time they step into the ring. Wrestlers are actors, performers and can be directors of their matches. If they don't want to step it up, let them goto second rate organizations that wrestle behind a store front, if that's all you want is glamor and win a belt that means NOTHING.

PWX is part of the NWA, the OLDEST and BEST federation in the business, there is a standard to live up to. PWX is a cut above the rest, and since it's part of the NWA, wrestlers need to step up to the excellence that the organization stands for.
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May 21st, 2012, 3:14 pm #10

The REAL National Wrestling Alliance is dead and gone and has been for a very long time.
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