Sleep and potty woes—any ideas or experience? (warning, pretty gross)

Sleep and potty woes—any ideas or experience? (warning, pretty gross)

Joined: February 10th, 2009, 9:24 pm

August 22nd, 2012, 6:44 am #1

My son (nearly 4) has been potty trained fully for a few months now. For the last month, he has taken to pooping in his underwear again. I have remained really calm and just quietly changed him. He has had no tinkle accidents, and actually waking up dry in the mornings for the last couple of weeks. I have offered really cool prizes for pooping on the potty, and he has earned 2 (all this week). He is not going a full amountjust little bits all day long. He has always been sensitive to baby wipes and having to use them again has really irritated his poor skin. Im worried that hes starting to just hold it and the little amounts are more of a leakage.

In terms of changes for him recently: there has been alot of travel over the last few weeks, but he actually started this behavior before we left. He has been extremely overtired for the last few months, between severe nasal congestion from allergies and his hating his new bed causing him not to sleep well. Other than acting tired, he has also taken to hitting which has never been his way of handling things in the past. He is also taking 3 different allergy medications and is still very stuffed up.

He has had his big boy bed for a few months and it is still taking him 3-4 hours in the evening to fall asleep. He is up walking all over his room, looking at books, pulling out toys. I thought he would get so exhausted that he would give up this behavior, but it hasnt workedhes still up all evening. If I sit with him in the room with lights out and threaten to leave if he doesnt lie down, he will usually fall asleep but it might take 1.5-2 hours to do so. I do have another child to also put to bed, and I basically have lost any semblance of an evening since putting him in his big boy bed.

So 2 things

1. Sleeplessnessany cures?

2. Regression in potty training
Last edited by Pinkdandelion on August 22nd, 2012, 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 20th, 2006, 2:07 am

August 22nd, 2012, 12:18 pm #2

I am wondering if his potty accidents might not be him thinking he needs to pass gas and it's not gas? My father told me that one of his boys (he refused to tell me which; I have 3 brothers) did this and he told the child that whenever he had to pass gas, to go sit on the toilet, just in case. That solved the problem.

Sleep. Ugh, what a pain that it remains such a problem, eh?? I'd like to know the secret myself. All I can do is project to when they are older and sleeping all the time. LOL
Mine have to be cuddled to sleep. Even my 9yo but he's making due with half cuddles because he has to but he doesn't like to and longs for when his father was around, then there was one adult per child. I seem to remember you telling me about your oldest having to make due too, in this way.
I am sure you've tried bribing your 4yo. That's what I would do. Could you convince him to stay in the bed with one toy? Gee, you'd think he'd get tired of this "new" freedom. You have my sympathy.

hugs
jm




me:43
FSH 26
DS: born by c-sec Apr15'03, 9lbs5oz 41wks gest. (after 4 years of ttc, starting in 1998)
DD born by c-sec Oct 13 2007, 8lbs13oz 39wk gest. (after just under 3 years of ttc)
~~DS was conceived naturally the cycle following a cancelled DE IVF, using my good friend's eggs. She was on the verge of hyperstimming.
~~DD's nat conception I attribute to using OPKs like a crazy nut, eating grapefruit daily and using preseed. also 5 cycles of TCM ending 2 cycles before that lucky cycle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Joined: September 4th, 2004, 1:08 am

August 22nd, 2012, 1:53 pm #3

My son (nearly 4) has been potty trained fully for a few months now. For the last month, he has taken to pooping in his underwear again. I have remained really calm and just quietly changed him. He has had no tinkle accidents, and actually waking up dry in the mornings for the last couple of weeks. I have offered really cool prizes for pooping on the potty, and he has earned 2 (all this week). He is not going a full amountjust little bits all day long. He has always been sensitive to baby wipes and having to use them again has really irritated his poor skin. Im worried that hes starting to just hold it and the little amounts are more of a leakage.

In terms of changes for him recently: there has been alot of travel over the last few weeks, but he actually started this behavior before we left. He has been extremely overtired for the last few months, between severe nasal congestion from allergies and his hating his new bed causing him not to sleep well. Other than acting tired, he has also taken to hitting which has never been his way of handling things in the past. He is also taking 3 different allergy medications and is still very stuffed up.

He has had his big boy bed for a few months and it is still taking him 3-4 hours in the evening to fall asleep. He is up walking all over his room, looking at books, pulling out toys. I thought he would get so exhausted that he would give up this behavior, but it hasnt workedhes still up all evening. If I sit with him in the room with lights out and threaten to leave if he doesnt lie down, he will usually fall asleep but it might take 1.5-2 hours to do so. I do have another child to also put to bed, and I basically have lost any semblance of an evening since putting him in his big boy bed.

So 2 things

1. Sleeplessnessany cures?

2. Regression in potty training
is to talk to your pediatrician and have him evaluated. Can he be anxious about something? How early is waking in the morning, if he isn't getting enough sleep that would make him less able to control his behaviors and hitting is easier than walking away. Is he with you all the time, any day care, can't remember? The change in the stool would really have me concerned as to what is really going on. It could be something physically or it could be emotional, it sounds like he is doing it unintentionally. Sorry, not to worry you.
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wcl
Joined: September 19th, 2006, 11:17 am

August 22nd, 2012, 2:18 pm #4

My son (nearly 4) has been potty trained fully for a few months now. For the last month, he has taken to pooping in his underwear again. I have remained really calm and just quietly changed him. He has had no tinkle accidents, and actually waking up dry in the mornings for the last couple of weeks. I have offered really cool prizes for pooping on the potty, and he has earned 2 (all this week). He is not going a full amountjust little bits all day long. He has always been sensitive to baby wipes and having to use them again has really irritated his poor skin. Im worried that hes starting to just hold it and the little amounts are more of a leakage.

In terms of changes for him recently: there has been alot of travel over the last few weeks, but he actually started this behavior before we left. He has been extremely overtired for the last few months, between severe nasal congestion from allergies and his hating his new bed causing him not to sleep well. Other than acting tired, he has also taken to hitting which has never been his way of handling things in the past. He is also taking 3 different allergy medications and is still very stuffed up.

He has had his big boy bed for a few months and it is still taking him 3-4 hours in the evening to fall asleep. He is up walking all over his room, looking at books, pulling out toys. I thought he would get so exhausted that he would give up this behavior, but it hasnt workedhes still up all evening. If I sit with him in the room with lights out and threaten to leave if he doesnt lie down, he will usually fall asleep but it might take 1.5-2 hours to do so. I do have another child to also put to bed, and I basically have lost any semblance of an evening since putting him in his big boy bed.

So 2 things

1. Sleeplessnessany cures?

2. Regression in potty training
Does your 4-year-old still take naps? My granddaughter (3) was not going to sleep easily at night, and my DD decided to try shortening her afternoon nap, and then eliminating it completely for a while. I thought that would not be a good idea for a 3-year-old. But it solved the problem. She started going down pretty early in the evening. Believe it or not, she is now back to taking naps at daycare, for about an hour each day, and still is going to sleep okay at night, right after her bath at 7 p.m. I think sometimes they just need some help to establish better habits, and then can continue them without help.

Another thought is the obvious--his allergy meds. Those can either knock you out or rev you up. Is it possible they are acting as caffeine might, and reving up his system so he can't settle down? How about discussing this with your ped? Maybe there's something else he can give your little guy that wouldn't interfere with his sleep this way?

As for the poop thing--welcome to the club! Our 3-year-old granddaughter still has accidents in her big girl panties. I think they get very distracted by play, and don't remember that they need to get to the potty when they feel something about to happen. My DD has taped a potty chart right next to the toilet, and my GD proudly puts a sticker on it each time she does her poop there. When the chart is full, she gets a prize. It helps. But it also helps to keep reminding her throughout the day when we see the telltale signs of discomfort, which I'm sure every parent is familiar with--at least when you're with him. I know that's not possible when he's in school. But again, it might help him become self-aware during the week, with just weekend help to kind of train him.

No great words of wisdom there, but that's been our experience.

wcl
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Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 4:05 am

August 22nd, 2012, 2:49 pm #5

My son (nearly 4) has been potty trained fully for a few months now. For the last month, he has taken to pooping in his underwear again. I have remained really calm and just quietly changed him. He has had no tinkle accidents, and actually waking up dry in the mornings for the last couple of weeks. I have offered really cool prizes for pooping on the potty, and he has earned 2 (all this week). He is not going a full amountjust little bits all day long. He has always been sensitive to baby wipes and having to use them again has really irritated his poor skin. Im worried that hes starting to just hold it and the little amounts are more of a leakage.

In terms of changes for him recently: there has been alot of travel over the last few weeks, but he actually started this behavior before we left. He has been extremely overtired for the last few months, between severe nasal congestion from allergies and his hating his new bed causing him not to sleep well. Other than acting tired, he has also taken to hitting which has never been his way of handling things in the past. He is also taking 3 different allergy medications and is still very stuffed up.

He has had his big boy bed for a few months and it is still taking him 3-4 hours in the evening to fall asleep. He is up walking all over his room, looking at books, pulling out toys. I thought he would get so exhausted that he would give up this behavior, but it hasnt workedhes still up all evening. If I sit with him in the room with lights out and threaten to leave if he doesnt lie down, he will usually fall asleep but it might take 1.5-2 hours to do so. I do have another child to also put to bed, and I basically have lost any semblance of an evening since putting him in his big boy bed.

So 2 things

1. Sleeplessnessany cures?

2. Regression in potty training
two things I can address:

Sore bum - same thing with my ds. Please have a look at this product:

http://www.jacksonreece.com/

I came across this after my cancer scare when I realised that I could no longer use moist wipes. Ds was having similar symptons as me and we were in a desperate situation. I came across this product as someone had referred to it on an online forum. I contacted the company and purchased some. OMFG it was like patting your bottom with cotton.

In addition to what JM suggested, I would suggest using the wipes first and then follow up with water. I keep baby rags specially for this and I have a bum bowl. Warm water in the bowl or just from the tap if he's in the washroom. Wipe with toilet paper, clean with a wipe or two and then wash with warm water and if necessary, apply a thin layer of desitin creme. Those "wet farts" as I call them have always irritated my boys bums. I swear, you do this routine and he won't be irritated.

Allergies - same thing with my ds, in fact we just got back from his follow up with the allergist. I am guessing that he has been tested and if not, please have him tested.

Ds's treatment - administer pediatric otrivin, wait 5 mins. administer nasonex. If there are itchy eyes, runny nose etc, give benadryl. Of course you need to get this direction from your pedi.

My ds was in agony prior to this treatment. Itchy eyes, runny nose, completely blocked nasal passages, cough, itchy ears and throat. It was painful to see the discomfort that he was in. He is now much better.

The allergies take a toll on little bodies, he really needs to get this fixed. If his current routine isn't working then he needs to do something else. My ds was constantly tired (couldn't get a good night's sleep), wired and irritated. Once the allergies were helped, his mood greatly increased.

The bum routine is safe to do for as long as you need too but if his has an irritated and itchy bum, it will definitely affect his bowel movements.

HTH and pls let us know how things go.

Z.

p.s. does your ds have a sleep buddy? Mine does. It's a stuffed toy dog that he absolutely LOVES. It worked wonders to help him get back to sleep on his own. To this day he still sleeps with it. It's very, very similar to the one in the link below:

http://www.mastermindtoys.com/Ty-Origin ... rnard.aspx

but his was a bit bigger (around 10 bucks) and very soft, so if they roll on it at night it won't wake them.
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Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 4:05 am

August 22nd, 2012, 2:59 pm #6

Try to avoid using soap on his bum, use Cetaphil. You don't need to wash it off so it's great to take when you go out for that extra special clean. Cetaphil and wipes are always in my bag.

The cetaphil is very soothing and has a very slippery smooth consistancy so it causes absolutely no irritation to the bum. Even when I give ds's baths, I use the cetaphil on their bums if not their whole body.

Z.
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Joined: July 7th, 2009, 1:19 pm

August 22nd, 2012, 5:12 pm #7

My son (nearly 4) has been potty trained fully for a few months now. For the last month, he has taken to pooping in his underwear again. I have remained really calm and just quietly changed him. He has had no tinkle accidents, and actually waking up dry in the mornings for the last couple of weeks. I have offered really cool prizes for pooping on the potty, and he has earned 2 (all this week). He is not going a full amountjust little bits all day long. He has always been sensitive to baby wipes and having to use them again has really irritated his poor skin. Im worried that hes starting to just hold it and the little amounts are more of a leakage.

In terms of changes for him recently: there has been alot of travel over the last few weeks, but he actually started this behavior before we left. He has been extremely overtired for the last few months, between severe nasal congestion from allergies and his hating his new bed causing him not to sleep well. Other than acting tired, he has also taken to hitting which has never been his way of handling things in the past. He is also taking 3 different allergy medications and is still very stuffed up.

He has had his big boy bed for a few months and it is still taking him 3-4 hours in the evening to fall asleep. He is up walking all over his room, looking at books, pulling out toys. I thought he would get so exhausted that he would give up this behavior, but it hasnt workedhes still up all evening. If I sit with him in the room with lights out and threaten to leave if he doesnt lie down, he will usually fall asleep but it might take 1.5-2 hours to do so. I do have another child to also put to bed, and I basically have lost any semblance of an evening since putting him in his big boy bed.

So 2 things

1. Sleeplessnessany cures?

2. Regression in potty training
Check the allergy meds. Some rev you up and some can calm you down, some people are very sensitive to meds and it's a reaction. There is also something medical name I can't remember but meds that are supposed to calm people can have the opposite reaction. DD can't take Benadryl, it revs her up, for most people it knocks them out. Maybe try no meds or cut back on meds and use saline, humidifier, steam shower, etc...
Sounds like it be a reaction to coming down/up off the meds and it doesn't agree with him? Are they the same meds? Why are there 3 allergy meds?

Next could be food related allergies. Gluten, milk can all be triggers for that type of behavior, food dyes and artificial ingredients etc....Certainly not going to be a quick fix but something to consider. What is he eating before bed? All day long?

You have to train him to sleep on his own. There are many books about this. He has to self soothe and that means you don't sit on his bed with him or lay with him because he associates you with going to sleep WITH YOU and that's the only way he can fall asleep until you re-train him. Not easy - but doable. It will take time and persistence. A routine for bed, same thing every night... you can look for more info on this online or many sleep books online.
Maybe try some melatonin and see if that helps calm him down also.

Sounds like he's anxious about something? Is he scared of the dark? Does he have a nightlight? A buddy to sleep with (stuffed toy)?

HTH
Last edited by 1234Fleur on August 22nd, 2012, 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 29th, 2006, 10:07 am

August 22nd, 2012, 10:01 pm #8

My son (nearly 4) has been potty trained fully for a few months now. For the last month, he has taken to pooping in his underwear again. I have remained really calm and just quietly changed him. He has had no tinkle accidents, and actually waking up dry in the mornings for the last couple of weeks. I have offered really cool prizes for pooping on the potty, and he has earned 2 (all this week). He is not going a full amountjust little bits all day long. He has always been sensitive to baby wipes and having to use them again has really irritated his poor skin. Im worried that hes starting to just hold it and the little amounts are more of a leakage.

In terms of changes for him recently: there has been alot of travel over the last few weeks, but he actually started this behavior before we left. He has been extremely overtired for the last few months, between severe nasal congestion from allergies and his hating his new bed causing him not to sleep well. Other than acting tired, he has also taken to hitting which has never been his way of handling things in the past. He is also taking 3 different allergy medications and is still very stuffed up.

He has had his big boy bed for a few months and it is still taking him 3-4 hours in the evening to fall asleep. He is up walking all over his room, looking at books, pulling out toys. I thought he would get so exhausted that he would give up this behavior, but it hasnt workedhes still up all evening. If I sit with him in the room with lights out and threaten to leave if he doesnt lie down, he will usually fall asleep but it might take 1.5-2 hours to do so. I do have another child to also put to bed, and I basically have lost any semblance of an evening since putting him in his big boy bed.

So 2 things

1. Sleeplessnessany cures?

2. Regression in potty training
but just to say we have same thing with our 3.5 year old son.4

After a very difficult potty-training year, we feel we are pretty much there but poo has always been difficult and we do seem to take one step forward, 2 steps back. But after a good run of no toilet accidents, we have had no 1+ 2 accidents since the weekend. And like your son, my DS hold on to his poo and it leaks out. A tell-tale sign is the wee patch appearing from the pressure of trying to hold it in - I see this and tell him he needs to go, he protest he does not, I physically put him on the toilet and a great big poo comes out. If I don't see that he has wet himself, then its lots of dirty pants.

Why has he regressed, well he seems happy enough but he did start back at nursery last week and I think he was bit down in the dump as his big brother has just left nursery to start school. He is much happier this week and we are doing a bit better with the loo.

Sleep has been another big battle with same son. Naps means he wont go to sleep at the bedtime I want. So as much as possible, I try to prevent nap or keep them short. I am pretty consistent at returning him to his bed if he is playing up so more and more, he just potters in his own bedroom and I don't really mind that as I am getting my evenings back to recharge my batteries and he is getting some quiet time (the next best thing to sleep, in my opionion).

Good to know, its not just me then!
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Joined: September 29th, 2010, 9:51 pm

August 23rd, 2012, 12:42 am #9

My son (nearly 4) has been potty trained fully for a few months now. For the last month, he has taken to pooping in his underwear again. I have remained really calm and just quietly changed him. He has had no tinkle accidents, and actually waking up dry in the mornings for the last couple of weeks. I have offered really cool prizes for pooping on the potty, and he has earned 2 (all this week). He is not going a full amountjust little bits all day long. He has always been sensitive to baby wipes and having to use them again has really irritated his poor skin. Im worried that hes starting to just hold it and the little amounts are more of a leakage.

In terms of changes for him recently: there has been alot of travel over the last few weeks, but he actually started this behavior before we left. He has been extremely overtired for the last few months, between severe nasal congestion from allergies and his hating his new bed causing him not to sleep well. Other than acting tired, he has also taken to hitting which has never been his way of handling things in the past. He is also taking 3 different allergy medications and is still very stuffed up.

He has had his big boy bed for a few months and it is still taking him 3-4 hours in the evening to fall asleep. He is up walking all over his room, looking at books, pulling out toys. I thought he would get so exhausted that he would give up this behavior, but it hasnt workedhes still up all evening. If I sit with him in the room with lights out and threaten to leave if he doesnt lie down, he will usually fall asleep but it might take 1.5-2 hours to do so. I do have another child to also put to bed, and I basically have lost any semblance of an evening since putting him in his big boy bed.

So 2 things

1. Sleeplessnessany cures?

2. Regression in potty training
Agree with others on getting the allergy meds checked out - for spec causes on BM. Also echo the sentiments on the dropping all naps. The sleeplady (online) had a good suggestion that we used at one stage. Start the first night sitting next to the child and every 3rd night move about 2-3 feet around the room farther away from child until the last few nights you are actually sitting just outside the door. Avoid engaging with the child just your presence is reassuring.

I would rule out any medical situations before treating the BM behaviorally. Best of luck - hope it resolves itself soon!
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Joined: February 10th, 2009, 9:24 pm

August 23rd, 2012, 4:33 am #10

I am wondering if his potty accidents might not be him thinking he needs to pass gas and it's not gas? My father told me that one of his boys (he refused to tell me which; I have 3 brothers) did this and he told the child that whenever he had to pass gas, to go sit on the toilet, just in case. That solved the problem.

Sleep. Ugh, what a pain that it remains such a problem, eh?? I'd like to know the secret myself. All I can do is project to when they are older and sleeping all the time. LOL
Mine have to be cuddled to sleep. Even my 9yo but he's making due with half cuddles because he has to but he doesn't like to and longs for when his father was around, then there was one adult per child. I seem to remember you telling me about your oldest having to make due too, in this way.
I am sure you've tried bribing your 4yo. That's what I would do. Could you convince him to stay in the bed with one toy? Gee, you'd think he'd get tired of this "new" freedom. You have my sympathy.

hugs
jm




me:43
FSH 26
DS: born by c-sec Apr15'03, 9lbs5oz 41wks gest. (after 4 years of ttc, starting in 1998)
DD born by c-sec Oct 13 2007, 8lbs13oz 39wk gest. (after just under 3 years of ttc)
~~DS was conceived naturally the cycle following a cancelled DE IVF, using my good friend's eggs. She was on the verge of hyperstimming.
~~DD's nat conception I attribute to using OPKs like a crazy nut, eating grapefruit daily and using preseed. also 5 cycles of TCM ending 2 cycles before that lucky cycle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My older son has never had sleep or potty issues. This is foreign territory to me. Im happy to report that he slept in his crib last night (fell asleep quickly) and pooped on the potty today without being asked to do so. I dont know if its coincidence or not, but I didnt get him the claritin last night. I wonder if the claritin was ramping him up as other posters have suggested.

Keeping my fingers crossed for continuing good days. I still have to address this allergy issue as I do think he is miserable with the nasal congestion.

And how are you holding up, JM? Ive been thinking of you. How did the week in the cabin go?

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