At Kat's suggestion, please comment (m)

At Kat's suggestion, please comment (m)

cy2
Joined: February 16th, 2006, 6:45 pm

May 17th, 2012, 11:43 am #1

I've been really, really bogged down recently. For gory details, please see our posts under the thread below about DS going to the Big Island.

Please comment below (not here) if you have the time or inclination. I can use all the wise feedback I can get.

Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts on this matter.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 17th, 2012, 12:45 pm #2

(Cy, I hope you don't mind. It's more likely to get read up here.)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/193668/m ... st+%28m%29

No, DH and I didn't have a big discussion during his absence. I was going to talk to DH last nite, but he was complaining that he was catching a cold. I figured that it would be better to wait until he felt better and to let him know that I cannot deal with our current situation and how he (DH) handles things.

The short story is that a couple weeks ago, DS was doing his typical defy me and goad me in front of DH. DH stepped in and smoothed over DS's bad behavior. When DS apologized, I held fast to my earlier statement about a consequence for the bad behavior. DS then went back to his horribly disrespectful behavior. I told DH that DS needed to be put in his room again.

Evidently DH thought I should have rescinded the consequence since DS apologized. Then DH blew up and claimed I had "turned" on him. He then proceeded to yell in my face. When I asked him what he wanted me to do, he yelled, "Leave!" As I was packing some things he went to the car and gave DS the digital camera that I had told DS he would not be receiving if he kept up his dispectful behavior toward me.

I was so furious, I packed up some things and left. Ended up spending the night in the car. The next morning as I was working at the local Starbucks on my laptop I got a call from DS. The battery of our other car was dead and I ended up taking DS to school. He told me that DH had stormed into his room after I left and told him that I was a "^%$#!!!".

I had important end of the month items I HAD to get out and no printer, so I ended up going back home and telling DH that I needed to deal with my regulatory requirements. We pretty much spent the time before DS' trip ignoring each other. I never gave nor received an apology.

When DS had a meltdown right before he left (he was tired, keyed up, trying to pack, and DH was trying to help but ended up yelling the throwing DS' stuff all over), I firmly refused to listen to DS' "Yes, but Dad. . ." protests and told DS that I was not going to let him create the situation when I would secondguess DH or play judge in a conflict between DS and DH because that what DH did to create problems with me. I specifically told DS that it was not ok for him to throw a fit, no matter what DH says or does. DS is the child and needs to be respectful of his parents and cannot count on creating an uproar every time he doesn't get his way.

I guess the message got across because now DH is very concerned with making sure DS has time with him to shop for my mother's day present and was disappointed I chose to see one of my cousins from CA (who I haven't seen in 30 years) and her husband on Saturday nite and go to my grandma's on Sunday instead of having them take me out for Mother's day. I ended up asking if they could take me to see the Globetrotters on Saturday, which I think is much better than just having a meal.

Anyway, I'm not sure where I'll end up after all of this. Thanks for being such a caring and reassuring friend. It means a lot to me. I haven't even really talked to my best friend IRL about this. She's up to her neck in alligators with her own family and professional situation.
Last edited by goldiescholar on May 17th, 2012, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 17th, 2012, 12:59 pm #3

I've been really, really bogged down recently. For gory details, please see our posts under the thread below about DS going to the Big Island.

Please comment below (not here) if you have the time or inclination. I can use all the wise feedback I can get.

Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts on this matter.
I'm so sorry. I thought I had read all the new posts on that thread and I was so wrong!

I feel for you. My dh also is guilty of passive-aggressive asides and once even told me, "No wonder ds is the way he is" -- meaning it was my fault. As if there isn't plenty of bad behavior and genes on both sides.

I agree with Kat that your dh's succumbing to the triangulation is absolutely unacceptable and I add, further, that ds has far too much power. My dh often cedes his power to our ds, too.

Is family therapy an option? Never mind. I think you have to make it an option -- no, a priority. Didn't ds used to see some kind of social worker? I really think y'all need to commit to this again. I know time is short, but I worry for your mental health and also your ds's. And he's so young and impressionable. I wish I could have more charity for your dh, but I fall short there. I believe you and dh need your own marital therapy, too. I hear that marital therapists don't just focus on "saving" marriages anymore, but also on helping couples decide if it's time to divorce, which seems practical to me.

And if you do decide to stay together, a good therapist could surely help you and dh negotiate terms for keeping it civil.

I need to read this book for myself: Imperfect Harmony: How to Stay Married for the Sake of Your Children and Still Be Happy

http://www.amazon.com/Imperfect-Harmony ... 031228974X

(((hugs))) I wish I had some wisdom for you, but I can only offer support.




Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
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Joined: March 12th, 2008, 1:22 pm

May 17th, 2012, 1:01 pm #4

(Cy, I hope you don't mind. It's more likely to get read up here.)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/193668/m ... st+%28m%29

No, DH and I didn't have a big discussion during his absence. I was going to talk to DH last nite, but he was complaining that he was catching a cold. I figured that it would be better to wait until he felt better and to let him know that I cannot deal with our current situation and how he (DH) handles things.

The short story is that a couple weeks ago, DS was doing his typical defy me and goad me in front of DH. DH stepped in and smoothed over DS's bad behavior. When DS apologized, I held fast to my earlier statement about a consequence for the bad behavior. DS then went back to his horribly disrespectful behavior. I told DH that DS needed to be put in his room again.

Evidently DH thought I should have rescinded the consequence since DS apologized. Then DH blew up and claimed I had "turned" on him. He then proceeded to yell in my face. When I asked him what he wanted me to do, he yelled, "Leave!" As I was packing some things he went to the car and gave DS the digital camera that I had told DS he would not be receiving if he kept up his dispectful behavior toward me.

I was so furious, I packed up some things and left. Ended up spending the night in the car. The next morning as I was working at the local Starbucks on my laptop I got a call from DS. The battery of our other car was dead and I ended up taking DS to school. He told me that DH had stormed into his room after I left and told him that I was a "^%$#!!!".

I had important end of the month items I HAD to get out and no printer, so I ended up going back home and telling DH that I needed to deal with my regulatory requirements. We pretty much spent the time before DS' trip ignoring each other. I never gave nor received an apology.

When DS had a meltdown right before he left (he was tired, keyed up, trying to pack, and DH was trying to help but ended up yelling the throwing DS' stuff all over), I firmly refused to listen to DS' "Yes, but Dad. . ." protests and told DS that I was not going to let him create the situation when I would secondguess DH or play judge in a conflict between DS and DH because that what DH did to create problems with me. I specifically told DS that it was not ok for him to throw a fit, no matter what DH says or does. DS is the child and needs to be respectful of his parents and cannot count on creating an uproar every time he doesn't get his way.

I guess the message got across because now DH is very concerned with making sure DS has time with him to shop for my mother's day present and was disappointed I chose to see one of my cousins from CA (who I haven't seen in 30 years) and her husband on Saturday nite and go to my grandma's on Sunday instead of having them take me out for Mother's day. I ended up asking if they could take me to see the Globetrotters on Saturday, which I think is much better than just having a meal.

Anyway, I'm not sure where I'll end up after all of this. Thanks for being such a caring and reassuring friend. It means a lot to me. I haven't even really talked to my best friend IRL about this. She's up to her neck in alligators with her own family and professional situation.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/193668/m ... 1++%28m%29

for a more complete picture.

Running out the door for a meeting, but will post again as soon as I can.

Hoping you get some good perspectives and suggestions from others, Cy. I am sure the others here will have wisdom to share.

((((hugs))),
Kat.
Last edited by piove on May 17th, 2012, 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 27th, 2003, 11:09 pm

May 17th, 2012, 3:13 pm #5

I've been really, really bogged down recently. For gory details, please see our posts under the thread below about DS going to the Big Island.

Please comment below (not here) if you have the time or inclination. I can use all the wise feedback I can get.

Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts on this matter.
I'm sorry for all the turmoil. It must be very hard to see your DH behaving like this in just exactly the ways you know will be making things worse for the family and how you relate to one another. It must be so very frustrating.

I do get what you said about in previous years not wanting to spend money and time on a therapist when you should be able to talk to each other about the problems on your own (I know I'm paraphrasing...forgive me if that was not the gist of your reluctance). I just wanted to say that I finally had a positive experience with a therapist this year. My previous forays into this territory seemed like a big waste of time and money, but I have to say the guy I've been seeing has really helped me to see some of the ways in which I contribute to certain situations. Things that never even occurred to me. It can be really helpful to have an outside perspective. It's been really helpful for me and my relationship with DH, at least. I feel like only a few sessions has made a significant difference. (I can't go into the details of the problem for which I sought help. It was different, of course, from your situation, but I wanted to encourage you that some relationship therapy might be worth a try.)

xoxoxo
M
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Joined: June 20th, 2006, 2:07 am

May 17th, 2012, 3:17 pm #6

I've been really, really bogged down recently. For gory details, please see our posts under the thread below about DS going to the Big Island.

Please comment below (not here) if you have the time or inclination. I can use all the wise feedback I can get.

Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts on this matter.
(((Cy)))

well, I'm not the best to respond to this (or maybe I am?? lol)

I can tell you that it's hard to deal with a spouse that is less mature than yourself. I had trouble coming to terms with that but it is what it is. I found it even harder to deal with the fact that who my DH is isn't who I thought he was.

I can tell you what helped me, us: therapy. We don't have time nor the money for this BUT we can't afford NOT to do it.

My Dh is in group therapy, separate from our couples therapy (thankfully one is covered by our provincial health) and the other costs us 170$ a session so we go every two weeks which seems to be ok for now.

Meanwhile, a few books helped me (like I have time for reading real stuff but I do get to it sometimes, in pockets of time and when I read it, it helps me make order in my mind and gives me tools to deal with situations)

Mars&Venus Together Forever (I wish I'd read this 10+ years ago)
(edited to add: not sure if this is a fre down load--looks to be-- but check out this linkhttp://www.4shared.com/office/Gkn5zRDZ/ ... oreve.html )


The Secret of PArenting (I think it was suggested on this bb and I forget who posted about it but it's very useful)

Hold Me Tight (I've only flipped through this one, to be honest but mostly because when I do have the time to read it, my brain refuses to go there)

OH! another book waiting for me is: how to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk.


Sure does sound like your DH has major issues to deal with. If he won't go to therapy with you, consider going solo to gain coping tactics for yourself, how to talk to him to avoid setting him off (not that it's YOUR fault but dynamics can be self feeding and explosive). The therapy we are in, helps to identify our pattern of "discussion" and how it leads down the head-butting path. For instance, last time, we discussed how DH can't "handle" DD and her "moods" and "behaviour" and I reminded him that DS was the same at that age (ahh the 4s are so much fun) and how he felt DS was out of control then too. BUT in public, the kids are fine. They hold it together out in the big wide world and feel so safe at home that they don't bother to have restraints and it's our job to guide them in this, give them tactics and decide when to step in and when to just let them blow steam and then strep in. (god, I sound like I have it under control and if you could have seen the bashee that was me on Monday, you'd laugh).
It's human nature for kids to suss out how to get their way, how to manipulate those around them (which is why babies smile) to get what they want. But mix that into late day after we adults are tired and strained from a day or whatever challenges, yikes.

I find it harder and harder to pick my battles. These decisions were so much easier when they were 2. lol

btw, my DS sounds a lot like yours, countering my every utterance and showing me such disrespect that I just want to run away for a while. Kat's DD sounds like DS too. Makes me wonder if it has more to do with phase, age and personality rather than being a singleton. Food for thought, I guess.

I think it's unfair of DH to put your DS in that position. It makes your boy conflicted. Puts him in the middle. Your DH will have to learn this from someone who isn't YOU because he'll just think you are trying to tell him what to do and point out how shitty a father he is (or am I talking about my DH there?? lol) If that sounds familiar, then your DH is dealing with low self esteem, as is mine. So when he looks at you, who seems to be in control and know exactly what to do, he feels the contraire and lashes out at you and tries to pull the boy on his side. NOT good. But do men really think these things through???


I know how hard it is to talk and share and deal with this crap. believe me. Sometimes all you need to to know we've read this and sending you hugs while your emotional strength isn't fully there to respond in kind. that is ok. we are all friends here and care for each other and don't judge. (at least THAT is how I think and depended on when I was in the thick of it and just couldn't respond to all the love I felt here. SOme days, it's just too hard) --having said that, do not feel you need to respond I get that and I understand completely. Just know that I am thinking of you and wish the best for you.
xoxo
love
Julie




me:43, DH 44
FSH 26
DS: born by c-sec Apr15'03, 9lbs5oz 41wks gest. (after 4 years of ttc, starting in 1998)
DD born by c-sec Oct 13 2007, 8lbs13oz 39wk gest. (after just under 3 years of ttc)
~~DS was conceived naturally the cycle following a cancelled DE IVF, using my good friend's eggs. She was on the verge of hyperstimming.
~~DD's nat conception I attribute to using OPKs like a crazy nut, eating grapefruit daily and using preseed. also 5 cycles of TCM ending 2 cycles before that lucky cycle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Joined: August 21st, 2002, 8:07 pm

May 17th, 2012, 4:44 pm #7

I've been really, really bogged down recently. For gory details, please see our posts under the thread below about DS going to the Big Island.

Please comment below (not here) if you have the time or inclination. I can use all the wise feedback I can get.

Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts on this matter.
Crushed to see these troubles in paradise...how impossible to move forward when communication has diminished and you are mired in frustration. I agree with Konni - important to restore the lines of safe communication with mediation regardless of the outcome - it's best for everyone to know that they can speak freely - if healthy patterns can be restored then resume on your own.

DS and DH often play a game of "Boys Stick Together" and I have been reduced to tears by their teasing...but it's fun and games...rarely ever a serious or hot button topic. I am sorry for the blow up and I hope that you can find yourself to on a path to comfort soon. Cy, you are a pillar of patience and a kind loving soul - I am shocked that they are self-sabotaging themselves by pushing you like this.

Sending my love.....





[size=300]EllenA[/size]

dx'd high fsh at age 30
ttc 6 years
5 failed clomid cycles
2 failed IVF cycles
#3 IVF/ICSI worked out fine
FET 2 years later didn't work out
Proud mom of an amazing miracle boy.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 17th, 2012, 6:27 pm #8

http://www.network54.com/Forum/193668/m ... 1++%28m%29

for a more complete picture.

Running out the door for a meeting, but will post again as soon as I can.

Hoping you get some good perspectives and suggestions from others, Cy. I am sure the others here will have wisdom to share.

((((hugs))),
Kat.
I totally get that feeling of not wanting to spend the time and money on something you feel should occur naturally and frequently without a third party. I don't go to marital therapy anymore, either, and that's a big part of the reason. I felt it was a crutch.

I do feel that your current situation is different. The goal is not to improve your marriage for its own sake, IMO, but to reach an equilibrium that will be healthier for ds, b/c I would consider the current tension to be something of an emergency. If it's bad enough for you to run away, it's an emergency.

Plus your dh sounds like a stubborn guy who needs to hear from a man that his behavior is unmanly and unacceptable. Unfortunately, some things, a man can only hear from another man, and it sounds like dh and ds are two of a kind in that respect. Your dh needs to man up, and it might take another man to make him realize that.




Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
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Joined: September 4th, 2004, 1:08 am

May 18th, 2012, 1:01 am #9

I've been really, really bogged down recently. For gory details, please see our posts under the thread below about DS going to the Big Island.

Please comment below (not here) if you have the time or inclination. I can use all the wise feedback I can get.

Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts on this matter.
Cy, so sorry your DH is putting you through this. My first thought is that DH needs therapy, one on one to help him resolve his own issues first and then develop coping skills to help deal with DS. Having a challenging child does tear a marriage, the only way to keep it together is to be strong together and in sync with each other both verbally and nonverbally. You can't keep things together on your own, which you are trying so hard to do. It is like you are dealing with a second challenging child, DH needs to grow up and pull himself together. If your marriage means anything to him, he will go for help. You are right about not giving DS the power to divide you and DH, your DH has to see and realize that he is doing this and making things worse in the long run. You have tried explaining all this to DH, he needs to hear this from a third party. I hope he agrees to talking to someone, and really soon. I am thinking of you! You have been so amazing with your DS, you deserve more respect and support from your DH for all that you do everyday.
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Joined: February 10th, 2009, 9:24 pm

May 18th, 2012, 3:50 am #10

I've been really, really bogged down recently. For gory details, please see our posts under the thread below about DS going to the Big Island.

Please comment below (not here) if you have the time or inclination. I can use all the wise feedback I can get.

Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts on this matter.
I am so sorry to read of the ongoing struggles with your DH and your DS.

I dont blame your son for the triangulations. I think it is normal for all children to test to see if their parents will remain on the same page. Seeing parents on the same page makes them feel secure and safe, just as a consistent set of rules makes them feel safe and secure. Its unfortunate that your DH cannot see the harm he is causing to your DS with his temper and his actions towards both DS and you. Do you think a male therapist may be able to put it in terms he can understand and respect?

I can tell that youre a very caring and intelligent woman. I sincerely hope that you can find a way to make your marriage and family life go in the direction that youd like to see it go. This all sounds so very stressful.

Hugs,

Pink





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