Newbs rebuilding AOD - found wiped out bushing

Newbs rebuilding AOD - found wiped out bushing

Joined: February 7th, 2012, 5:56 pm

February 7th, 2012, 6:22 pm #1

Hey there,

It's been a long time since I've had an automatic apart and my mind is foggy. I hope someone with more recent experience can guide me where to go and what else to look for...

We have an AOD out of a 1991 Mustang 5.0L that came to us with no O/D. This, along with a fuel-injected 5.0 (out of a different Mustang) are being transplanted into my sons '66 Mustang. The engine is done and now its time to move on to the transmission.

Its apart and we've got a master rebuild kit with steels, both bands and the front and rear bushings. Started to break down the subassemblies and noticed the bushing on the "center support planetary" #59 or #60 in the image (#59 is not identified) is wiped out - it defininitely needs to be replaced.



I'll try and get a pic of the actual damage tonight, but wanted to post while I was thinking about it. What I need help with is - seeing this damage, is there other areas I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance.
Rich
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Joined: July 17th, 2011, 7:07 pm

February 8th, 2012, 2:32 am #2


Yes, the planetary #62 has a bushing in the small (rear) end. (that bushing not visible in your picture).

That bushing is VERY commonly worn out.

You must drive the bushing out towards the rear of the planet using a bushing cutter. You can't get a driver in there. It won't come out the other way cuz the torrington bearing inside the planet gets in the way.

When installing the new bushing, BEWARE the rear edge of the bore often has a very sharp edge, and will messup the bushing when you try to install it.

You MUST chamfer the sharp edge of the bore to get the bushing in.

Carefully check all other bushing for wear. The small sun gear bushing is often worn out too. If fact, just get a bushing kit for the trans and change 'em all. You will feel better about it that way.
Last edited by galaxiex on February 8th, 2012, 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Silverfoxtrans
Silverfoxtrans

February 8th, 2012, 2:23 pm #3

Good info there...all very true!
As for 59/60 being bad...that is actually pretty rare.
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Joined: February 7th, 2012, 5:56 pm

February 8th, 2012, 6:45 pm #4

Thanks to the both of you for your response. I've added a couple pictures of the damage (sorry they're lousy cell phone pics) - I'm wondering most about the wear spot on the outside (first pic) which I think is from the snap ring. Should this be replaced or is it ok?

Thanks again.
Last edited by RichSout on February 8th, 2012, 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 17th, 2011, 7:07 pm

February 8th, 2012, 7:03 pm #5


That damage in your first (smaller) pic, looks like it's from the "anti rattle" clip that goes between the center support lug and the case. Thats nothing to worry about.

OTOH... if all the lugs look like that, it is from the center support "hammering" back and forth in the case. Inspect the case for hammered out lugs....

The bushing does indeed look wiped out in the 2nd pic. Not common but it does happen. In that situation, the other (rear) small bushing will FOR SURE  be NFG.
Last edited by galaxiex on February 8th, 2012, 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 7th, 2012, 5:56 pm

February 8th, 2012, 7:41 pm #6

That is the only lug with damage. Thanks for the info. I'll order a bushing kit and check for further damage.

can I pick your brain a little further - I mentioned earlier that the trans was pulled due to no O/D. Any specific areas I should be looking at?

(Last time I built transmissions was 20 years ago - C4/T350/727 type)
Last edited by RichSout on February 8th, 2012, 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pete
Pete

February 9th, 2012, 1:54 am #7

Sorry to hijack into this thread but do any of the AOD/AODE bushings need a special size/style of bushing driver to install them. Thanks for any advice or tips. Pete
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Joined: July 17th, 2011, 7:07 pm

February 9th, 2012, 2:32 am #8

That is the only lug with damage. Thanks for the info. I'll order a bushing kit and check for further damage.

can I pick your brain a little further - I mentioned earlier that the trans was pulled due to no O/D. Any specific areas I should be looking at?

(Last time I built transmissions was 20 years ago - C4/T350/727 type)
I mentioned earlier that the trans was pulled due to no O/D. Any specific areas I should be looking at?

----------------------------------------------------------

No OD can happen for a number of reasons...

Broken/burnt OD band

Bad servo seals

Valvebody or governor problems, TV linkage setup.

Tip; Installing the OD band and servo....

Assemble the trans standing on end. When you get to the OD band, put it in place and install the servo <strong>right away</strong>.

If you finish assembly of the main case and lay the trans on it's side to put the servo in.... you will find that it is very difficult/tricky to get the servo pin to engage the band properly. (it can be done, it's just easier to do it NOW)

Install the servo while the trans is standing up (before you put the Int clutches and pump in) and you can look in and <strong>positively</strong> see the servo pin engage the band.

Put the servo in later and it becomes a bit of a guessing game whether or not the servo pin engaged the band properly.

Take extra care with the valvebody. These VB's are finicky as hell. Proper torque on the bolts is a MUST!

We call them "potato chip" valvebodys cuz they are so thin and will warp if you look at them wrong.

Warps and un-even torqued bolts lead to sticky valves and all kinds of problems.

Here's one that trips up even the "experts"... The filter is held on with 3 small bolts. 2 at the front and one at the rear.

The front bolts are ok, a slight over torque won't hurt anything.

The rear bolt is right over a valve and overtightening that bolt warps the VB and causes the valve to stick.

Trouble is.... the filter metal case tends to "squash down" when you tighten that rear bolt, and feels really "spongy" while torquing.

Because of this... guys tend to crank down on the bolt cuz it feels like it's not tight.... so they crank down until it DOES feel tight. (they are compressing the metal of the filter case). Now the bolt feels tight and all is good.... or is it? Probably too tight....

Here's what I do... I crank the bolt down to compress the filter metal case and get rid of the spongy feel to the bolt. Then loosen it and re-torque to spec. Now it doesn't feel spongy cuz I have pre-compressed the metal filter case, and the torque comes up real nice.

EDIT; When inspecting the VB... Look CAREFULLY at everything. These VB's are known to have broken clips and valve springs. When small parts break, sometimes its hard to spot, and the tiny little broken pieces can jam a valve and be very hard to see.

This is not the easiest VB to work on. Getting some of the valves out can be a nightmare. The aluminum end plugs get burrs on them and will refuse to come out of the bore. Then you get a really big screw driver and just pry that sucker outta there... NOT!

The aluminum will gall and the plug will wedge itself in the bore, and if you do get it out, there will be big gouges and .... not good.

Be very careful with the VB.... it's kinda delicate....
Last edited by galaxiex on February 9th, 2012, 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 17th, 2011, 7:07 pm

February 9th, 2012, 2:38 am #9

Sorry to hijack into this thread but do any of the AOD/AODE bushings need a special size/style of bushing driver to install them. Thanks for any advice or tips. Pete
I use a "standard" set of bushing drivers. Professional Trans shop standard set....

There are some bushings in the AOD/AODE that none of the standard set will fit quite right.

Since I work in a trans shop and have been doing this for over 30 years..... we figure out ways to make stuff work... or get the boss to buy the proper drivers.

If you don't have experience, or the proper drivers, I strongly recommend you take the parts to a trans shop that has the right tools and get them to install the bushings.
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Joined: February 7th, 2012, 5:56 pm

February 9th, 2012, 3:37 pm #10

I mentioned earlier that the trans was pulled due to no O/D. Any specific areas I should be looking at?

----------------------------------------------------------

No OD can happen for a number of reasons...

Broken/burnt OD band

Bad servo seals

Valvebody or governor problems, TV linkage setup.

Tip; Installing the OD band and servo....

Assemble the trans standing on end. When you get to the OD band, put it in place and install the servo <strong>right away</strong>.

If you finish assembly of the main case and lay the trans on it's side to put the servo in.... you will find that it is very difficult/tricky to get the servo pin to engage the band properly. (it can be done, it's just easier to do it NOW)

Install the servo while the trans is standing up (before you put the Int clutches and pump in) and you can look in and <strong>positively</strong> see the servo pin engage the band.

Put the servo in later and it becomes a bit of a guessing game whether or not the servo pin engaged the band properly.

Take extra care with the valvebody. These VB's are finicky as hell. Proper torque on the bolts is a MUST!

We call them "potato chip" valvebodys cuz they are so thin and will warp if you look at them wrong.

Warps and un-even torqued bolts lead to sticky valves and all kinds of problems.

Here's one that trips up even the "experts"... The filter is held on with 3 small bolts. 2 at the front and one at the rear.

The front bolts are ok, a slight over torque won't hurt anything.

The rear bolt is right over a valve and overtightening that bolt warps the VB and causes the valve to stick.

Trouble is.... the filter metal case tends to "squash down" when you tighten that rear bolt, and feels really "spongy" while torquing.

Because of this... guys tend to crank down on the bolt cuz it feels like it's not tight.... so they crank down until it DOES feel tight. (they are compressing the metal of the filter case). Now the bolt feels tight and all is good.... or is it? Probably too tight....

Here's what I do... I crank the bolt down to compress the filter metal case and get rid of the spongy feel to the bolt. Then loosen it and re-torque to spec. Now it doesn't feel spongy cuz I have pre-compressed the metal filter case, and the torque comes up real nice.

EDIT; When inspecting the VB... Look CAREFULLY at everything. These VB's are known to have broken clips and valve springs. When small parts break, sometimes its hard to spot, and the tiny little broken pieces can jam a valve and be very hard to see.

This is not the easiest VB to work on. Getting some of the valves out can be a nightmare. The aluminum end plugs get burrs on them and will refuse to come out of the bore. Then you get a really big screw driver and just pry that sucker outta there... NOT!

The aluminum will gall and the plug will wedge itself in the bore, and if you do get it out, there will be big gouges and .... not good.

Be very careful with the VB.... it's kinda delicate....
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
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