Uncredited Scatting on Joe Venuti Record

Uncredited Scatting on Joe Venuti Record

Professor Hot Stuff
Professor Hot Stuff

October 21st, 2009, 11:03 pm #1

Does anyone know who's scatting on this Joe Venuti record? I vaguely remember someone saying it was Chauncey Morehouse but I'm not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Atticus70#p/u/0/Tl3EST4D4D8
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 21st, 2009, 11:38 pm #2


<em>"The identity of the scat vocalist is open to conjecture. OKeh's files list Venuti, though the light texture of the voice seems far different from the violonist's usual basso-profundo utterances. Discographer Brian Rust  credist Chauncey Morehouse, but no other example o the drummer's voice survives on record for comparison. Best, perhaps, to leave the matter open - and breathe a small sigh of relief that neither man ever considered devoting himself to singing on anything like a full-time basis."</em>

By the way, according to the discography in the Mosaic set, the arranger is the great Joe Tarto. He gets to solo on tuba!

Thanks, Professor Hot Stuff. Great recording. And get a load of that coda.

Albert
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vince giordano
vince giordano

October 22nd, 2009, 3:09 am #3

I was lucky to study and hang with Bill Challis and Chauncey Morehouse back in the late 60s. I would bring over records and tapes and ask them to indentify certain soloists, arrangers and so on.
I brought over the T.O.M lp of Joe Venuti New Yorkers and asked Chauncey if that was him on the vocal scat of I Must Have That Man. He laughed and said the only vocal he did was on a Red Nichols date: Harlem Twist [Chauncey wrote it by the way].
He did remember the Venuti date, too!. He remembered that Venuti had either forgotten to hire a vocalist or the vocalist was a "no show". So, when it came time for the vocal, Joe scatted. The engineer or producer came out of the booth and said something like.."I don't think that's good enough for the record" and typical Venuti [with fingers crossed] said that he did this in the show "Rain or Shine" and it was a hit. The other guys in the band went along with this story and convinced the guy with loud enthusiasm. The "vocal" stayed!

Also: If you listen to the end of the scat..theres a distant cymbal choke 1 or 2 beats after the vocal finishesits Venuti on the vocal.
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Josh Duffee
Josh Duffee

October 22nd, 2009, 5:27 am #4

I listened through the song again and found that Chauncey is playing a vibraphone at 4.5 seconds and 6 seconds at the beginning of the song. If you can listen closely behind Venuti's scatting and Lang's beautiful guitar riffs you'll hear some light vibraphone playing happening every now and then. His first hit on vibraphone comes between 1:30 and 1:31 during Venuti's scat chorus. He would throw in hits sporadically throughout the vocal.

Chauncey was endorsed by the Leedy Drum Company, which enabled him to get any drum gear he needed for recording sessions, pit work, or anything else that came his way. Leedy was also the first company to distribute a vibraphone in the 20's. Other artists endorsed by the Leedy Company were Vic Berton, Sonny Greer, Zutty Singleton, The Green Brothers, Harold McDonald (who was the drummer for Whiteman in '23), and many more!

There would have been enough time for Chauncey to switch from vibe mallets to sticks to hit his choke following the vocal scat on this recording.

Thanks,

Josh
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 22nd, 2009, 3:49 pm #5

I was lucky to study and hang with Bill Challis and Chauncey Morehouse back in the late 60s. I would bring over records and tapes and ask them to indentify certain soloists, arrangers and so on.
I brought over the T.O.M lp of Joe Venuti New Yorkers and asked Chauncey if that was him on the vocal scat of I Must Have That Man. He laughed and said the only vocal he did was on a Red Nichols date: Harlem Twist [Chauncey wrote it by the way].
He did remember the Venuti date, too!. He remembered that Venuti had either forgotten to hire a vocalist or the vocalist was a "no show". So, when it came time for the vocal, Joe scatted. The engineer or producer came out of the booth and said something like.."I don't think that's good enough for the record" and typical Venuti [with fingers crossed] said that he did this in the show "Rain or Shine" and it was a hit. The other guys in the band went along with this story and convinced the guy with loud enthusiasm. The "vocal" stayed!

Also: If you listen to the end of the scat..theres a distant cymbal choke 1 or 2 beats after the vocal finishesits Venuti on the vocal.
Here is Chauncey Morehouse scatting in Red Nichols's "Harlem Twist" recording mentioned by Vince.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXM6dnBf9NU  (from Emrah's youtube collection)

Here are in sequence the two scattings, first Joe in "I Must Have That Man" and then Chauncey in "Harlem Twist." Clearly two different guys.

http://bixography.com/ScatsJoeChauncey.ram

Albert

 
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 22nd, 2009, 4:08 pm #6

I listened through the song again and found that Chauncey is playing a vibraphone at 4.5 seconds and 6 seconds at the beginning of the song. If you can listen closely behind Venuti's scatting and Lang's beautiful guitar riffs you'll hear some light vibraphone playing happening every now and then. His first hit on vibraphone comes between 1:30 and 1:31 during Venuti's scat chorus. He would throw in hits sporadically throughout the vocal.

Chauncey was endorsed by the Leedy Drum Company, which enabled him to get any drum gear he needed for recording sessions, pit work, or anything else that came his way. Leedy was also the first company to distribute a vibraphone in the 20's. Other artists endorsed by the Leedy Company were Vic Berton, Sonny Greer, Zutty Singleton, The Green Brothers, Harold McDonald (who was the drummer for Whiteman in '23), and many more!

There would have been enough time for Chauncey to switch from vibe mallets to sticks to hit his choke following the vocal scat on this recording.

Thanks,

Josh
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;">. "The Complete History of the Leedy Drum Compny" by Rob Cook.
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"> 
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;">Here are two mentions of Chauncey in the book.
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"> 
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span><img alt="[linked image]" src="http://bixography.com/ChaunceyFredAllenAd.jpg"></span>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span></span> 
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span></span>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span><img alt="[linked image]" src="http://bixography.com/GoldketteDrum.jpg"></span>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span></span> 
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span></span>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span>Chauncey's first name is misspelled, Also, Bix was not in the photo because it is a photo of the pre-Bix Goldkette band.</span>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span></span> 
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;"><span>Albert</span>
Last edited by ahaim on October 22nd, 2009, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Susan Atherton Reed
Susan Atherton Reed

October 22nd, 2009, 6:27 pm #7

I was lucky to study and hang with Bill Challis and Chauncey Morehouse back in the late 60s. I would bring over records and tapes and ask them to indentify certain soloists, arrangers and so on.
I brought over the T.O.M lp of Joe Venuti New Yorkers and asked Chauncey if that was him on the vocal scat of I Must Have That Man. He laughed and said the only vocal he did was on a Red Nichols date: Harlem Twist [Chauncey wrote it by the way].
He did remember the Venuti date, too!. He remembered that Venuti had either forgotten to hire a vocalist or the vocalist was a "no show". So, when it came time for the vocal, Joe scatted. The engineer or producer came out of the booth and said something like.."I don't think that's good enough for the record" and typical Venuti [with fingers crossed] said that he did this in the show "Rain or Shine" and it was a hit. The other guys in the band went along with this story and convinced the guy with loud enthusiasm. The "vocal" stayed!

Also: If you listen to the end of the scat..theres a distant cymbal choke 1 or 2 beats after the vocal finishesits Venuti on the vocal.
Funny upon hearing that song for the first time a while back i did think it sounded like Chauncey as young man (but i only knew him as an older man)...He always did the "dee dee doo de dum" type of humming songs so i wouldn't be surprised. (Actually Vince I heard you do that "dee dum" narration at your talk with Randy Sandke at the Bix Festival. I'm so happy you had those experiences...so now we know.

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Susan Atherton Reed
Susan Atherton Reed

October 22nd, 2009, 6:34 pm #8

Here is Chauncey Morehouse scatting in Red Nichols's "Harlem Twist" recording mentioned by Vince.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXM6dnBf9NU  (from Emrah's youtube collection)

Here are in sequence the two scattings, first Joe in "I Must Have That Man" and then Chauncey in "Harlem Twist." Clearly two different guys.

http://bixography.com/ScatsJoeChauncey.ram

Albert

 
Great for comparison - thanks for posting.
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Emrah Erken
Emrah Erken

October 23rd, 2009, 10:41 am #9

Here is Chauncey Morehouse scatting in Red Nichols's "Harlem Twist" recording mentioned by Vince.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXM6dnBf9NU  (from Emrah's youtube collection)

Here are in sequence the two scattings, first Joe in "I Must Have That Man" and then Chauncey in "Harlem Twist." Clearly two different guys.

http://bixography.com/ScatsJoeChauncey.ram

Albert

 
Here is the new link for "Harlem Twist":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ansOPNSEY

I have replaced the other video with a new one.


Emrah
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 23rd, 2009, 12:29 pm #10


....have been mentioned prominently in the Forum in the last few days: Chauncey Morehouse and Fud Livingston In addition, they are members of the recording band! You get to hear Fud playing both tenor sax and clarinet.

According to Stephen M. Stroff, the arrangement is by Glenn Miller and he writes, "The first chorus is by Fud and the ensemble. There is a Mole trombone and Livingston on the bridge, then a rather pathetic Morehouse scat vocal." [Sorry, Susan!]

According to Rust, there were two issued takes of "Harlem Twist," takes 2 and 3.  Rust notes that "Nichols himself requested that 45814-3  be substituted after 45814-2 had been issued. Stroff mentions also a "recently issued take 1." Which take is the one you uploaded? The redhotjazz site has a streaming file,

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/nichols ... twist2.ram

but the take number is not specified in the Nichols page. However, the link to the streaming file has 2 after 'harlemtwist" so I suspect it is take 2..

The redhotjazz site also lists "Harlem Twist" in Miff Mole's page (no date or record number).

http://www.redhotjazz.com/mmm.html

But when you click on the link, you get the same streaming file as the one in the Red Nichols page.

The jazzonlin site has take 2. Sounds the same as what Emrah and the redhotjaz have.

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/VIC45814-2.ram

Albert

 
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