Muggsy Spanier

Muggsy Spanier

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 16th, 2018, 3:24 am #1

Fromhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bix_Beiderbecke

"With Louis Armstrong and Muggsy Spanier, Beiderbecke was one of the most influential jazz soloists of the 1920s. "

I imagine many will agree that Louis and Bix were two of the most influential jazz soloists of the 1920s. But Muggsy Spanier? Note "jazz soloists," not trumpeters. Opinions?

Albert
Quote
Like
Share

Alberta
Alberta

January 16th, 2018, 8:16 am #2

I don't recall ever reading that Muggsy was an important inspiration to a jazz musician. Doesn't mean he wasn't. Doesn't mean he wasn't great. But I can't recall him being singled out as influential.

Quote
Share

John Coffin
John Coffin

January 16th, 2018, 7:37 pm #3

Not even that well known during the 20s. Really gained notice after getting away from Ted Lewis, and sobering up at least for a while, at the end of the 30s.

He is one who captured the quality and essence of Armstrong better than almost anyone.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 17th, 2018, 1:07 am #4

I don't recall ever reading that Muggsy was an important inspiration to a jazz musician. Doesn't mean he wasn't. Doesn't mean he wasn't great. But I can't recall him being singled out as influential.
More errors inhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bix_Beiderbecke
Some noted by Nick, others by me.

- "In 1928, Trumbauer and Beiderbecke left Detroit to join the best-known dance orchestra in the co untry: the New-York-based Paul Whiteman Orchestra." It was 1927 in New York when Goldkette dissolved his band.

- " He first recorded with Midwestern jazz ensembles, The Wolverines and The Bucktown Five in 1924," There is an LP of the Wolverines and the Bucktown Five, but Bix did not record with the Bucktown Five."

- "He [Bix] left the Whiteman band in 1930. It was 1929.

" In the meantime, Beiderbecke played on four number-one records in 1928, all under the Whiteman name: "Together", "Ramona", "My Angel", and "Ol' Man River", which featured Bing Crosby on vocals." The vocalist in "Together" was Jack Fulton. The vocalists in "Ramona" were Austin Young and Jack Fulton. The vocalists in "My Angel" were Jack Fulton, Charles Gaylord and Al Rinker.

Albert
Quote
Like
Share

John Coffin
John Coffin

January 17th, 2018, 2:39 am #5

Anyone can edit Wikipedia. This often means that political nuts and quack science cranks constantly 'edit' articles about their pet topics.

I think here we just have some lazy copying and pasting. I saw another web page saying that Bix led a group called The Chicago Cornets...which was just the name of a record album. No one ever suggested that there was a band with that name.
Quote
Share

Phil Schaap
Phil Schaap

January 17th, 2018, 9:20 pm #6

Fromhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bix_Beiderbecke

"With Louis Armstrong and Muggsy Spanier, Beiderbecke was one of the most influential jazz soloists of the 1920s. "

I imagine many will agree that Louis and Bix were two of the most influential jazz soloists of the 1920s. But Muggsy Spanier? Note "jazz soloists," not trumpeters. Opinions?

Albert
Dear Bixographers,

Anointing Muggsy Spanier to a trinity "of the most influential jazz soloists of the 1920s" is, of course, ridiculous.

What might be of interest to Bixographers is an instance of influence that Spanier has today and in fairly recent years.

I deal with a large number of young - college age - students and work with a significant number of young (teens to early forties) Jazz professional musicians.

It might hurt Bixographers to their hearts to know how few have heard Bix or even to have heard of him. Indeed, Jazz knowledge is at a nadir and pre-Hard Bop Jazz is largely unknown to recent generations.

In this malaise, I have been surprised by a young person mentioning Muggsy Spanier to me. They dig his soulful playing and embrace him as authentic and primary by any standard. Often, they are young trumpeters. Regardless to musicianship, they rarely can even suggest how they came to know of him. They certainly know nothing of the legendary Chicagoans, much less the Bucktown Five. Still, they whip out their phones, put an earbud into one of my ears and we listen to "Relaxin' At The Touro" together - master take, of course, and I never fail to mention that the their copies are inferior sonically. Yet it is miraculous that they have and like the recording at all.

This phenomenon is not widespread. But for every 5000 students who have not heard of or heard any of the following: Red Allen; Bunny Berigan; Doc Cheatham; ... Jabbo Smith; Lu Watters, and Snooky Young, 15 to thirty dig Muggsy Spanier and at the very least know "Relaxin' At The Touro".

Phil Schaap
Quote
Share

John Coffin
John Coffin

January 18th, 2018, 1:29 am #7

When I played in college, none of the other brass players seemed to have heard of anyone except Davis, Freddie Hubbard, and Maynard Ferguson. Even Clifford Brown and Lee Morgan were unrecognized.

By the time I left, a few were listening to Jabbo Smith.

I suppose it would only take a series of lucky 'shares' to make Relaxin... a viral phenom. Why not I'm Coming Virginia, or even West End Blues?
Quote
Share

Alberta
Alberta

January 18th, 2018, 6:14 am #8

Dear Bixographers,

Anointing Muggsy Spanier to a trinity "of the most influential jazz soloists of the 1920s" is, of course, ridiculous.

What might be of interest to Bixographers is an instance of influence that Spanier has today and in fairly recent years.

I deal with a large number of young - college age - students and work with a significant number of young (teens to early forties) Jazz professional musicians.

It might hurt Bixographers to their hearts to know how few have heard Bix or even to have heard of him. Indeed, Jazz knowledge is at a nadir and pre-Hard Bop Jazz is largely unknown to recent generations.

In this malaise, I have been surprised by a young person mentioning Muggsy Spanier to me. They dig his soulful playing and embrace him as authentic and primary by any standard. Often, they are young trumpeters. Regardless to musicianship, they rarely can even suggest how they came to know of him. They certainly know nothing of the legendary Chicagoans, much less the Bucktown Five. Still, they whip out their phones, put an earbud into one of my ears and we listen to "Relaxin' At The Touro" together - master take, of course, and I never fail to mention that the their copies are inferior sonically. Yet it is miraculous that they have and like the recording at all.

This phenomenon is not widespread. But for every 5000 students who have not heard of or heard any of the following: Red Allen; Bunny Berigan; Doc Cheatham; ... Jabbo Smith; Lu Watters, and Snooky Young, 15 to thirty dig Muggsy Spanier and at the very least know "Relaxin' At The Touro".

Phil Schaap
nowadays. I wonder if your students would like this one, I believe recorded when Muggsy was 19. (You would know how old to the day, I'm sure!) They might find the energy almost too much to bear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD9D0drNmUw

BTW, thanks so much for your efforts over the decades to keep the history of this music alive. I for one have learned massive amounts from you. Keep up the good work!
Quote
Share

John Coffin
John Coffin

January 18th, 2018, 5:40 pm #9

Great creative spelling.

Interesting. It sounds as if Muggsy hadn't heard Louis yet.
Quote
Share

Alberta
Alberta

January 18th, 2018, 10:20 pm #10

on this label. Question for you: Is this played open horn? It has has a muted sound to me but maybe it's the pre-microphone recording method. Also, it seems to me Bix had a similar vibrato sound on at least some of the Wolverines sides. Was that just an early style popularized by some of the New Orleans musicians, or is it maybe something young horn players eventually grow out of when they're stronger players?
Quote
Share