Is Anyone Else Listening to Phil Schaap?

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 12th, 2018, 12:18 pm #11

Smith Ballew with Joe Venuti & His New Yorkers says "having a wonderful time."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcrVWMfK4aA

Dick Robertson with Ben Bernie says "having a heck of a time."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2kMgBZ_EU

Who plays trumpet in Jolson's recording?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rON_Sz ... rON_SzscB4

Albert

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wellwisher
wellwisher

March 12th, 2018, 5:56 pm #12

ACTUALLY, it's two pianos, and as usual, they acquit themselves excellently in their half-chorus. Bargy and Hayton? I guess. There was no shortage of piano players in 1929, and Whiteman had his pick of the very finest. The piano usually gets lost in a huge ensemble like this, and as you point out, only briefly now and then comes up for air. But when it does, it's always sparkling and impeccable. For instance, I like the piano introduction on "It Was The Dawn of Love."

n.b. There's a scene in the movie "The Cotton Club," where Richard Gere is at a swanky party in downtown New York. It's 1928, and he makes a huge hit with his piano playing. The only problem is that he's playing the blues, kind of a boogie boogie, and not very good blues at that. In real life, he would have been laughed out of the room! In 1928, with monsters like James P. Johnson, George Gershwin, and yes, Roy Bargy around, the piano bar in New York was set HIGH.

-Brad Kay
Hi Brad. Only teasing! Which I hope you are when you mention Gershwin and Bargy in the same breath as James P. With he and Fats or Lucky Roberts, in the room they would have been wise to sit on their hands and just listen - and marvel.
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Brad Kay
Brad Kay

March 12th, 2018, 6:48 pm #13

Smith Ballew with Joe Venuti & His New Yorkers says "having a wonderful time."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcrVWMfK4aA

Dick Robertson with Ben Bernie says "having a heck of a time."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2kMgBZ_EU

Who plays trumpet in Jolson's recording?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rON_Sz ... rON_SzscB4

Albert
I can live with "Heck" or "Hell," but "Having a wonderful time" is a phony, lily-livered COP-OUT!

Just my two cents...

-Brad Kay
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Brad Kay
Brad Kay

March 12th, 2018, 7:51 pm #14

Hi Brad. Only teasing! Which I hope you are when you mention Gershwin and Bargy in the same breath as James P. With he and Fats or Lucky Roberts, in the room they would have been wise to sit on their hands and just listen - and marvel.
James P. Johnson was the dean, of course, of all the Harlem piano players, with Fats and Lion close behind. George Gershwin also was coming up fast. Eubie Blake once told me the story about when he first encountered Gershwin:

It was in 1916, when eighteen-year-old George worked at Remick's as a song plugger, and Eubie came around to sell a few. He caught a big earful of the young phenom, then hurried back to Harlem to tell James P. and Luckey about it: "There's this young, ofay piano player down at Remicks, and he's on to ALL our tricks! You'd better watch out!!" Later, when "Rhapsody in Blue" took off, Luckey Roberts muttered, "He used ALL of my tricks in that Rhapsody!"

Arthur "The Baron" Schutt also commanded great respect uptown, and Zez Confrey's compositions "Kitten on the Keys," "You Tell 'Em Ivories" etc. etc. were well-studied.

Point is, the situation amongst Black and White pianists of Manhattan was one of mutual admiration. And they ALL genuflected to Josef Hofmann and Art Tatum. Any one of them would have sent Richard Gere home with a bloody nose.

-Brad Kay
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John Coffin
John Coffin

March 13th, 2018, 3:46 am #15

In the first 10 seconds, Bix's break, in a bucket mute or derby grabs the ear.
The authors of the accompanying booklet ascribe the chorus to Secrest.
The 'Bix Restored' discography says Bix.
Its true that there's less of the 'Bixy' inflection than usual. BUT, there's a sort of put on mocking bugle thing going on, and the pushy high notes really sound like Bix sort of forcing to get the job done.
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Mark Gabrish Conlan
Mark Gabrish Conlan

March 13th, 2018, 4:54 am #16

I've never doubted that Bix played the 24-bar split cornet chorus (heard contrapuntally over Charles Strickfaden stating the melody on baritone sax, a favorite trick of Bill Challis and Whiteman's other arrangers at the time) on "I'm in Seventh Heaven." I "read" the chorus as Bix from the first time I heard this record (on a 1970's Biograph Records LP of rare early recordings by Bing Crosby) and I've never doubted it since. I also "read" the eight-bar solo on Whiteman's "Reaching for Someone" as by Bix even though the notes to the Columbia LP it was on, "Paul Whiteman Featuring Bing Crosby," identified it as Secrest -- and the fact that we have a known Secrest solo on Trumbauer's version of the song makes it even more obvious.

I also think the repeated notes on the last eight bars on Bix's "I'm in Seventh Heaven" solo were an homage to Louis Armstrong.
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David Tenner
David Tenner

March 13th, 2018, 5:58 am #17

In the *Annual Review of Jazz Studies: 2002* in a review of Edward Brooks, *The Young Louis Armstong*, Randy Sandke writes:

"He [Brooks] goes into great detail to prove that Armstrong attempted to imitate Beiderbecke on the Henderson recording of "Alone at Last," and the Savoy Ballroom Five recording of "No One Else but You." In my opinion, these claims are baseless. Armstrong and Beiderbecke were highly individualistic players, and although they admired each other greatly, their styles were poles apart. A case could be made that Beiderbecke may have been influenced by Armstrong via jam sessions both men participated in at the Savoy in Chicago during the fall of 1927 and summer of 1928. Some of Beiderbecke's solos with Frank Trumbauer from the spring of 1929, such as on "Louise," and "Wait Till You See Ma Cherie," and "I'm in Seventh Heaven" with Whiteman, show a new and sudden interest in high notes. However, this was a period of physical and emotional decline for Beiderbecke, and these recordings are far from his best. He may have been undergoing a phase of intense self-doubt, which could conceivably have led him to alter his style. But Armstrong was never one to question or substantially change his own basic approach." https://books.google.com/books?id=D1LpXkjCC9MC&pg=PA211
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Russell Davies
Russell Davies

March 13th, 2018, 3:37 pm #18

I can live with "Heck" or "Hell," but "Having a wonderful time" is a phony, lily-livered COP-OUT!

Just my two cents...

-Brad Kay
Agree wholeheartedly with Brad's comment. "Heaven" requires ONE of the opposing notions, at least.
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Nick Dellow
Nick Dellow

March 13th, 2018, 5:03 pm #19

Smith Ballew with Joe Venuti & His New Yorkers says "having a wonderful time."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcrVWMfK4aA

Dick Robertson with Ben Bernie says "having a heck of a time."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2kMgBZ_EU

Who plays trumpet in Jolson's recording?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rON_Sz ... rON_SzscB4

Albert
Here is another recording of "I'm In The Seventh Heaven":-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5xQ_cAAcmE


In this British recording (on the rather rare Worldecho label), Cavan O'Connor sings "Heck". Since the studio band here uses a stock arrangement, I assume that it was "Heck" in the printed stock rather than "Hell". The word "hell" was certainly considered blasphemous at the time the song was published and would have been on the list of "taboo" words, along with "damn" and a number of other words that are not considered particularly profane today.

Regarding the Whiteman version, I certainly agree with Russell Davies that when Bix re-enters for those last eight bars of his solo, it does have that "I can still do it" quality, in much the same way that Bix attempts octave jumps in the second half of his two-part muted solo in Trumbauer's "I Like That", though sadly, he doesn't quite make on that occasion (by that, I mean his slightly rusty embouchure can't provide the control to land on the higher note of the octave jump in tune).

Incidentally, the nice hot trumpet on the Worldecho version is by Sylvester Ahola, who was a heck of a fine trumpet player, as well as a hell of a good soloist!; however, the thin-sounding and boxy quality of these shellac-coated card-cored 78s hardly helps his tone, damn it!

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John Coffin
John Coffin

March 13th, 2018, 9:48 pm #20

I've never doubted that Bix played the 24-bar split cornet chorus (heard contrapuntally over Charles Strickfaden stating the melody on baritone sax, a favorite trick of Bill Challis and Whiteman's other arrangers at the time) on "I'm in Seventh Heaven." I "read" the chorus as Bix from the first time I heard this record (on a 1970's Biograph Records LP of rare early recordings by Bing Crosby) and I've never doubted it since. I also "read" the eight-bar solo on Whiteman's "Reaching for Someone" as by Bix even though the notes to the Columbia LP it was on, "Paul Whiteman Featuring Bing Crosby," identified it as Secrest -- and the fact that we have a known Secrest solo on Trumbauer's version of the song makes it even more obvious.

I also think the repeated notes on the last eight bars on Bix's "I'm in Seventh Heaven" solo were an homage to Louis Armstrong.
I don't know Secrest's sound and history well enough to absolutely preclude him. But just about every instance where he stood in for Bix with Whiteman is pretty obviously not Bix.

I suspect a lot of 'not Bix' suggestions come from hearing very late, or very early, Bix without a sense of his musical growth, and later physical decline. Hearing 'Doo Wacka Doo' or Secrest on 'Great Day' in a vacuum would be a lot more confusing if we weren't able to hear Bix through the same time-frames.
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