I'm going nuts! Max Goldberg sounding in 1929 like Bix did in 1930!!

I'm going nuts! Max Goldberg sounding in 1929 like Bix did in 1930!!

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 17th, 2009, 8:46 pm #1

Listen to this youtube thing (unfortunately truncated at the end)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SpiusJb ... re=related

This is the Feb 7, 1929 recording by The Rhythmic Eight of "I'm Crazy Over You." Max Goldberg, t; Arthur Lally, cl, as, bar; ?Jack Mirand, cl, as; Johnny Helter, cl, ts; Bert Read, p, a; Joe Brannelly, bj,g; Billy Bell, bb; Rudy Starita, d, vib, x; Maurice Elwin, v.

Bix sounded a bit muffled and weak in 1930, "Loved One" with the Hotsy Totsy Gang; "Georgia On My Mind" with Hoagy, etc.

And get a load of Godlberg sounding like Hooley at 2:58!

Listen to the isolated solo,

http://bixography.com/Rhythmic8Goldberg ... verYou.ram

Remarkable!

And I'll have another surprise for you later or more likely tomorrow.

Comments anyone?

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 18th, 2009, 12:46 am #2

The recording of "I'm Crazy Over You" is track # 13 in the Melotone CD "The Rhythmic Eight, Volume Two 1928-29." In the liners, Ned Newitt gives for this recording ?Noman Payne (or Max Godlberg) and then, "solos: Payne." So, is the soloist Goldberg or Payne?

Albert
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Nick Dellow
Nick Dellow

January 18th, 2009, 12:12 pm #3

I have discussed this side, and in fact many of these "is it Goldberg or Payne" sides, with a number of experts, especially Frank v. (whose technical expertise is second to none, as is well known).

Max and Norman were good friends and often practiced together (especially in the late 1920s), so it seems obvious that as a consequence there was some cross-over of styles, making identification more difficult on some sides from the late 1920s.

In "I'm Crazy Over You" and the even better "That's Her Now" from the same session, the trumpet solos are almost certainly by Max Goldberg. On "That's Her Now", Max takes no less than four solos and achieves a variety of sound by his expert use of mutes. He seems to be using two mutes - possibly a Lew Davis type multi-mute (as invented by the British trombone player of the same name) and also a Derby mute, as well as soloing open horn. In the 1980s, Max told me he was particularly fond of using mutes (he also said he favoured using an "Olds Recorder" trumpet).

Thanks to the expert help of those mentioned above, I feel more confident in sticking my neck out slightly in stating that nearly all the solos in the late 1920s where there is a question mark as to whether the player is Max or Norman are in fact by Max, and that probably includes Jay Whidden's "A Dicky Bird Told Me So". This latter side is probably the most contentious of all!

In conclusion, I must further state that of course there is no question as to Norman Payne's presence on those wonderful New Mayfair Dance Orchestra / Night Club Kings sides directed by Ray Noble in 1930, including "Every Day Away From You" and "Allah's Holiday".

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Rob Rothberg
Rob Rothberg

January 21st, 2009, 8:26 pm #4

Nick, is there a "Max or Norman" question mark regarding Whidden's "All by Yourself in the Moonlight?" I like to think that both splendid takes are Norman's work, but you're the expert . . .
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Nick Dellow
Nick Dellow

January 21st, 2009, 10:30 pm #5


Hi Rob,

I believe these solos are by Max not Norman, but I think the best thing to do is to contact you off-forum about this and outline my case for Max (I should say "our case" as this has been reached with the help of others, as mentioned in my post above)!

Best wishes,


Nick
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 21st, 2009, 11:19 pm #6

.... with the rest of us?

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 22nd, 2009, 12:08 am #7

Hi Rob,

I believe these solos are by Max not Norman, but I think the best thing to do is to contact you off-forum about this and outline my case for Max (I should say "our case" as this has been reached with the help of others, as mentioned in my post above)!

Best wishes,


Nick
.... about Jay Whidden in

http://www.jabw.demon.co.uk/whidden1a.htm

Nick's CD set "The Influence of Bix Beiderbekce" includes two tracks by Jay Whidden in Volume 2, "Louisiana" and "A Dicky Bird Told Me So."

Jay Whidden has a strong connection to Bix through Con Conrad, the composer of "Singin' the Blues."

You can hear the 1928 recording by Jay Whidden and His Carlton Hotel Orchestra of "A Room with a View" in

http://www.archive.org/details/JayWhidd ... hAView1928

Pleasant, sweet record except for the vocalist . Jay Whidden himself!!!

Also on youtube Virginia (There's a blue ridge in my heart) recorded by Jay Whidden on Oct 19, 1928 with the Bixian trumpet player Max Goldberg (according to Rust; Nick, do you agree?).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0jpdx5P ... re=related

The trombone soloist (Bill Mulraney) is also somewhat Bixian, no?

The Missouri Valley Collection has a great photo of Jay Whidden autographed to Coon Sanders.

http://www.kchistory.org/cdm4/item_view ... OX=1&REC=1


Albert



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Nick Dellow
Nick Dellow

January 22nd, 2009, 9:23 am #8


Yes, I do agree that it is Max Goldberg on Whidden's "Virginia". There are two takes of this side, and this is the hotter version. In fact, Whidden also recorded this title for the diminutive Victory label, and that version also has a short Goldberg solo, but it is right at the end of the record rather than at the start!
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