from monday on - a hidden gem ?

from monday on - a hidden gem ?

stu mandel
stu mandel

June 17th, 2012, 5:28 pm #1

hello all -

as a recently-minted bixophile, i've obtained my core grounding in 1927, bix and tram, bix and gang, etc. now, i've started to work my way through the whiteman catalogue. (note - i have some goldkette favorites, such as "clementine", and i like a number of wolverines pieces, but the poor fidelity of the recordings really limits my enjoyment).

i do like "lonely melody", and i suppose everyone listens to "changes" and "there ain't no sweet man etc."

but i am intrigued by "from monday on". you have to clear some hurdles: the opening and closing are strange to my ears; the singing is, well, of the typical style of the period; and the lyrics are sometimes painful ("we picked on monday, because its wash day...."). once you're by that however, you've got a crackling opening solo by bix, then later on a goodly chunk of some truly terrific ensemble playing (reminiscent to me of "clarinet marmalade" and "san").

anybody have any thoughts on this ?

b/t/w, atticus has all 3 versions loaded on one clip at youtube.

thnx and regards,

stu
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Alan Matheson
Alan Matheson

June 17th, 2012, 8:42 pm #2

This is an interesting arrangement which sets off both Bix's solo and Bing's vocal beautifully. I've got photocopies of the band parts from the Whiteman Collection at Williams College (Williamstown, Mass.) and what's striking is how different the parts are from the three extant recordings. It looks like the vocal trio parts were not always part of the band's live performances as the "a tempo" section just before Bix's solo (which is "scat sung" by the Rhythm Boys on the recording) is scored for trombones and saxes-maybe for performances without the Rhythm Boys. As well, the form of the arrangement (according to the band parts) includes a stop-time chorus where the band members stomped their feet in between snatches of the melody played by the winds and brass. The violin section soli on the recording ( and contained on the parts) was essentially a harmonization of the verse of the song-which can be heard (with lyrics) on the Rhythm Boys version of "From Monday On". The brass soli which follows the violin section feature is also in the parts but comparing the lead cornet line (played by Bix) with the 3 recorded takes we have on this piece, Bix took some liberties with the written line (not surprisingly!). You're right that this section resembles "Clarinet Marmalade" and "San" as Matty Malneck either composed a soli for the brass in Bix's style or got together with Bix (as Bill Challis often did) and transcribed a solo as played by Bix, afterwards harmonizing it for a section of instruments. Too bad that the Frank Trumbauer version of "From Monday On" is lost to us. It would be interesting to have it around for comparison!
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stu mandel
stu mandel

June 17th, 2012, 11:19 pm #3

thanks alan.

one of the wonderful things i have learned quickly about this forum is that when you post a point, you are as likely as not to get a response that will not only be topical but, as well, informative bordering on scholarly !

i remember when i first listened to "clarinet marmalade", i was struck by bix's ensemble playing with tram as much as i was by his lead and solo work on the piece (which, as i have posted before, i find to be incredible). here, we have another example of that tight and melodic teamwork, and i love it.

best, stu
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 17th, 2012, 11:23 pm #4

hello all -

as a recently-minted bixophile, i've obtained my core grounding in 1927, bix and tram, bix and gang, etc. now, i've started to work my way through the whiteman catalogue. (note - i have some goldkette favorites, such as "clementine", and i like a number of wolverines pieces, but the poor fidelity of the recordings really limits my enjoyment).

i do like "lonely melody", and i suppose everyone listens to "changes" and "there ain't no sweet man etc."

but i am intrigued by "from monday on". you have to clear some hurdles: the opening and closing are strange to my ears; the singing is, well, of the typical style of the period; and the lyrics are sometimes painful ("we picked on monday, because its wash day...."). once you're by that however, you've got a crackling opening solo by bix, then later on a goodly chunk of some truly terrific ensemble playing (reminiscent to me of "clarinet marmalade" and "san").

anybody have any thoughts on this ?

b/t/w, atticus has all 3 versions loaded on one clip at youtube.

thnx and regards,

stu
The three (eventually) released takes of <em>From Monday On </em>were recorded over a period of two weeks in Februay 1928. Althoiugh recorded within two weeks of each other, it took years and even more than a decade for all to be released: Take 3 was released in 1941, take 4 in 1936 and take 6 in 1928.

To me, the recordings of Matty Malneck's arrangements of  <em>From Monday On </em>are little masterpieces, Whiteman at his best,  the sweet trio doing the sweet intro followed by 2/3 of the Rhythm boys jazzing it up, and then  explosive 32-bar solos (all somewhat different) by Bix, and then Bix is all over the place, leading,  pushing, encouraging. Several people have done the experiment of stringing together the three Bix solos, you get 96 bars of Bix at the top of his technical powers and inventive imagination. Of course, not only a show piece for Bix, but a manifestation of the unsurpassed musical qualities of the Whiteman boys playing hot ensemble music. I can't think of Bix without hearing in my head Bix, Bing and the enormous power of the Whiteman musicians doing <em>From Monday On. </em>

Albert
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stu mandel
stu mandel

June 18th, 2012, 12:54 am #5

guess you're right, albert.

apparently, only "hidden" from the perspective of a recent bix initiate.

just hadn't heard anyone mention this number before.

regards, stu
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Glenda Childress
Glenda Childress

June 18th, 2012, 1:54 am #6

hello all -

as a recently-minted bixophile, i've obtained my core grounding in 1927, bix and tram, bix and gang, etc. now, i've started to work my way through the whiteman catalogue. (note - i have some goldkette favorites, such as "clementine", and i like a number of wolverines pieces, but the poor fidelity of the recordings really limits my enjoyment).

i do like "lonely melody", and i suppose everyone listens to "changes" and "there ain't no sweet man etc."

but i am intrigued by "from monday on". you have to clear some hurdles: the opening and closing are strange to my ears; the singing is, well, of the typical style of the period; and the lyrics are sometimes painful ("we picked on monday, because its wash day...."). once you're by that however, you've got a crackling opening solo by bix, then later on a goodly chunk of some truly terrific ensemble playing (reminiscent to me of "clarinet marmalade" and "san").

anybody have any thoughts on this ?

b/t/w, atticus has all 3 versions loaded on one clip at youtube.

thnx and regards,

stu
Stu, you are right about the progress of a a Bix novice. The Gang and Trumbauer recordings are the most accessible to new ears, mainly because the work of Bix and the other major hot jazz players with whom he was associated was so influential that they passed down the style that they substantially created and perfected, and it is still being used by working musicians. The newest Wolverines compendium is much easier to listen to, and if you've become very familiar with the slightly later Bix, you'll see why they are special if you really listen.

I had a harder time with the Whiteman recordings, too, partly because of the "dated" period style of some of them and partly because the listeners have to wade through all those "symphonic jazz" overlays to get to the Bix parts. But, my, oh my, are there some gems of Bix's genius there, showing the range of his creativity and musicality. So hang in there. It's worth it.
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Alan Matheson
Alan Matheson

June 18th, 2012, 2:12 am #7

The three (eventually) released takes of <em>From Monday On </em>were recorded over a period of two weeks in Februay 1928. Althoiugh recorded within two weeks of each other, it took years and even more than a decade for all to be released: Take 3 was released in 1941, take 4 in 1936 and take 6 in 1928.

To me, the recordings of Matty Malneck's arrangements of  <em>From Monday On </em>are little masterpieces, Whiteman at his best,  the sweet trio doing the sweet intro followed by 2/3 of the Rhythm boys jazzing it up, and then  explosive 32-bar solos (all somewhat different) by Bix, and then Bix is all over the place, leading,  pushing, encouraging. Several people have done the experiment of stringing together the three Bix solos, you get 96 bars of Bix at the top of his technical powers and inventive imagination. Of course, not only a show piece for Bix, but a manifestation of the unsurpassed musical qualities of the Whiteman boys playing hot ensemble music. I can't think of Bix without hearing in my head Bix, Bing and the enormous power of the Whiteman musicians doing <em>From Monday On. </em>

Albert
I agree with everything you say about this, Albert. I had the pleasure of restoring the arrangement for a live performance that I conducted for CBC Radio here in Vancouver back in 1995-96. Because Williams College had no original score for "From Monday On", I had to transcribe what was missing (see my previous post) and recopy all the parts for our Whiteman tribute orchestra. Our vocalist was a veteran Vancouver musician (Lance Harrison) who is (so far) the only person I've met who heard Bing with Gus Arnheim via the radio back in the 1930-31 period. It was an enormous thrill to conduct and play on a bunch of these "golden era" (c.1927-30) arrangements written for the Whiteman band-including some unrecorded items from the "Old Gold" radio period that were designed for Bix and Bing.
Matty Malneck, of course, wrote the great arrangement of "Mary" for Bix and Bing. It also features an excellent cornet soli that still sounds great to this day-and beyond.
Thanks again, Albert, for keeping this wonderful site going!
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from monday on
from monday on

June 18th, 2012, 1:01 pm #8

Stu, you are right about the progress of a a Bix novice. The Gang and Trumbauer recordings are the most accessible to new ears, mainly because the work of Bix and the other major hot jazz players with whom he was associated was so influential that they passed down the style that they substantially created and perfected, and it is still being used by working musicians. The newest Wolverines compendium is much easier to listen to, and if you've become very familiar with the slightly later Bix, you'll see why they are special if you really listen.

I had a harder time with the Whiteman recordings, too, partly because of the "dated" period style of some of them and partly because the listeners have to wade through all those "symphonic jazz" overlays to get to the Bix parts. But, my, oh my, are there some gems of Bix's genius there, showing the range of his creativity and musicality. So hang in there. It's worth it.
thanks so much for the encouragement, glenda.

in my very first post on the forum, i cited the well-known phrase that i had heard that bixophiles cherish every note...because there were so few of them. i need to remember that everytime i think i've come upon something new. it may be new to me, but the old pros will have undoubtedly analyzed it note by note long before i ever first heard it !

but it's still a joy of discovery for the newbie.

maybe someday i'll be able to guide a new initiate the way our veterans are guiding me.

at the end of the day, it's all great fun and wonderful listening.

thnx again, stu
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 18th, 2012, 1:37 pm #9

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 18th, 2012, 3:49 pm #10

hello all -

as a recently-minted bixophile, i've obtained my core grounding in 1927, bix and tram, bix and gang, etc. now, i've started to work my way through the whiteman catalogue. (note - i have some goldkette favorites, such as "clementine", and i like a number of wolverines pieces, but the poor fidelity of the recordings really limits my enjoyment).

i do like "lonely melody", and i suppose everyone listens to "changes" and "there ain't no sweet man etc."

but i am intrigued by "from monday on". you have to clear some hurdles: the opening and closing are strange to my ears; the singing is, well, of the typical style of the period; and the lyrics are sometimes painful ("we picked on monday, because its wash day...."). once you're by that however, you've got a crackling opening solo by bix, then later on a goodly chunk of some truly terrific ensemble playing (reminiscent to me of "clarinet marmalade" and "san").

anybody have any thoughts on this ?

b/t/w, atticus has all 3 versions loaded on one clip at youtube.

thnx and regards,

stu
Here is a list of recordings of the tune cited in Lord's discography.

Jan 20, 1928 Frank Trumbauer  unissued

Feb 13 and 28, 1928 Paul Whiteman 3 takes issued

Mar 19, 1928 Jimmy Joy one take issued

May 28, 1928 Red McKenzie two takes issued

Oct 1928 Billy Cotton London one take issued

Oct 18, 1928 The Three Australian Boys London one take issued

Nov 9, 1928 The Piccadilly Players London one take issued

In addition:

The Rhythm Boys Jan 12, 1928 two takes issued.

 

Listen to some of these recordings.

Whiteman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLWuHEvNn9Y  all three takes from Emrah

Jimmy Joy  http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/joy/frommondayon.ra

Rhythm Boys  http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Whiteman/br/mondayon.ra  take 3 (with intro)

Red McKenzie http://archive.org/download/FromMondayO ... On_vbr.m3u  Venuti and Lang!!

Piccadilly Players  bixbeiderbecke.com/frommondayonstarita.mp3  maybe Norman Payne?

Billy Cotton   bixbeiderbecke.com/FromMondayOnCotton.mp3   a kazoo after the vocal?

Enjoy. In my book the three best, in my order of preference: Whiteman, McKenzie, Rhythm Boys.

Albert

Anyone has The Three Australian Boys version?
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