From Howdy Quicksell Scrapbook

From Howdy Quicksell Scrapbook

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 19th, 2018, 10:07 pm #1

A posting from two years  ago:   

a-discovery-of-cosmic-proportions-two-n ... tml#p47473

Another photo in the scrapbook. I am certain that  Bix is behind the announcer. From http://www.brownbrosauction.com/footnot ... all-sixes/
GoldketteQuicksellScrapBook.jpg
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Joined: March 16th, 2018, 8:41 am

March 22nd, 2018, 7:35 am #2

Albert,
 
I think the musician behind the announcer in the Goldkette photo you highlight in your post is Jimmy Dorsey, not Bix.
 
Firstly, if you look closely you will see that the musician in question is holding a tenor saxophone - you can just see the bottom curve of the saxophone behind the back of the announcer, about half way down his back (it might be an alto sax, but it is more likely to be a tenor sax based on the position). Secondly, there is a baritone sax positioned on a stand next to the musician, which you can just see further to the left (our left) of the announcer's back, above the palm leaves in front of the lighter colored background (the other baritone sax seen to the right of the announcer's white shirt is likely to be Doc Ryker's baritone). Thirdly, Jimmy Dorsey also had slightly protruding ears (which, I guess is why you thought it might be Bix) and this factor, together with the square shape of his hair/forehead, matches perfectly photos of Jimmy Dorsey from that time.
 
I asked my friends Dave Hignett and Frank van Nus for their opinions. Both are excellent at identifying musicians, and both have specific interests and expertise with regard to the Jean Goldkette Orchestra. Dave is a well known collector and researcher, as well as being a professional photographer. Frank is a respected trumpet player, arranger and teacher, and is also well known to the forum. He has transcribed many original Bill Challis arrangements and a number of these were commissioned by Josh Duffee for use by his band. As a result of his work in this field, Frank received the 2003 Jean Goldkette Foundation award.
 
Both Dave and Frank independently identified Jimmy Dorsey behind the announcer. They also both identified Frank Trumbauer as the man standing up between the announcer and Goldkette, and Frank also points out that Tram is holding an alto sax. Both Dave and Frank further stated that it is Fuzzy Farrar who is partly obscured behind Goldkette's head. Dave also identified others; here is the relevant part of his email:-

"This photo concentrates on the sax and rhythm section with only one musician in the brass section in view and that's "Fuzzy" Farrar. His head is directly behind Goldkette. Jimmy Dorsey is on the right (left to us) of "Doc" Ryker. It's also obvious to me that the musician standing (and directing) behind Goldkette is Frank Trumbauer. Quicksell is sitting behind Ryker with his banjo.  Steve Brown is standing in the back clutching his string bass with his left arm (you can see the light reflection off his wrist watch). Chauncey Morehouse is to the left of Brown, sitting at his drum set."
 
Frank said:-

"It’s my impression that's Jimmy Dorsey behind the announcer, with his baritone sax within reach (or it might be Ryker's). Doc Ryker is next, and that would appear to be Tram's neck (and to me it looks like Tram is holding an alto sax). Farrar is more or less next to Ryker, so the trumpets would be seated towards the right."
 
Bix would be seated in the brass section of course, so sadly he is out of the camera's shot, to the right of the photo.
 
With the personnel as identified by myself, Frank and Dave, the only possible date that the photo could have been taken is the last week of January 1927, when Jimmy Dorsey replaced Don Murray for a week when Murray was ill. That was the only period when Jimmy Dorsey was in the Trumbauer-led Goldkette band. The band was in New York at the time, but the venue where the photo was taken is a bit of a mystery. I know the Goldkette band played at the Roseland that week, but this surely isn't the bandstand at the Roseland. The other odd thing is that the microphone is identical to the one that the band used in Detroit, seen in several published photographs. Is the fact that it's the same microphone a coincidence? And, anyway, do we even know if the band broadcast when they were in New York that week? There are other questions too.
 
When I first saw this photograph, something about it struck me as odd - and that is the perspective of the announcer, but even more importantly, of Goldkette himself. They don't look to me to be part of the same photograph as the others in it. A crucial factor here is that Jean Goldkette did not go to New York with the band. He stayed in Detroit, and as we already know, Goldkette very rarely conducted the band - even when it was in Detroit. Trumbauer is standing up because obviously he is conducting the band, or at least directing it.

I think that the answer to this conundrum is that Goldkette and the announcer have been superimposed on top of the original photo.  I am reminded of that floating heads photo (previously discussed in my post:-
 
danny-polo-t10030.html#p51876
 
- so we know that the photographic studios of the time did do superimposing on a Goldkette band photo on at least one other occasion. In fact, I'm sure I've seen that image of Goldkette in the foreground of the photo in question somewhere else, and I'm pretty sure it is one of him taken a few years earlier than 1927.

One other thing about the announcer - take a look at the January 1927 article that Josh Duffee highlighted in recent Facebook discussions:-





There, at the top, is the same announcer, same pose and same microphone, but cut out. So I think the photographic studio must have reversed this cut-out and stuck it on the band photo, added Goldkette on top and then photographed the result (after some touching up). I asked Dave Hignett about this, since he is a professional photographer, and he said:-
 
"Well Nick, all I can say is we're one and the same mind when it comes to this odd exposure. I was thinking the same thing. Jean Goldkette looks out of place, as if he wandered into the photographer's view at the wrong time. It was common place to do a double exposure or overlay in the darkroom at that time. In this case, it would be about advertising - Goldkette wouldn't want people to think he wasn't in charge of his own band. I also think you are 100% correct about the announcer also being overlayed….which makes it a double-double exposure! Interesting how they pasted on the cut-out photos over another photo and made it look decent. I wonder how many of these were altered that way? In this case, Bix is in the band, just not in this photo."
 
In conclusion, if that is Jimmy Dorsey in the sax section - and I think it must be - then the photo couldn't have been taken on or around January 19th, 1927 (the date of the article Josh highlights). It could only have been taken in the last week of January 1927, when the band was in New York and Jimmy Dorsey had temporarily replaced Don Murray. If we accept that the photo shows both Dorsey and Trumbauer, that is the only possible answer as far as I can see.
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Joined: March 16th, 2018, 8:41 am

March 22nd, 2018, 9:26 am #3

Here is the photo in question (see above post for details)

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Joined: March 15th, 2018, 2:29 pm

March 22nd, 2018, 2:24 pm #4

Nick, wouldn't that be Don Murray directly behind the Mayor holding the tenor sax? The photo was taken in Detroit on Wed January 19, 1927 (see Josh's article) at the dedication of the Savarine Hotel a couple days before the band traveled to New York. Per Evans & Evans, Murray came down with a toothache and was replaced by Dorsey on the 23rd of January. I'm guessing Dorsey was in NYC at the time.
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Joined: March 15th, 2018, 2:29 pm

March 22nd, 2018, 3:08 pm #5

A quick scan-through of Rust's Jazz Records places Jimmy Dorsey in New York recording with the Arkansas Travelers and Charleston Chasers on January 4, 1927. Would he have taken a quick trip to Detroit to join the Goldkette band in January only to quickly return to New York? Seems doubtful.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 22nd, 2018, 4:17 pm #6

I agree that the image of Goldkette is superimposed. The image of the mayor is an integral part of the photo, in my opinion. Taken on Jan 19, 1927 for the dedication of the Savarine Hotel in Detroit. It makes no sense that a photo of  a portion of the Goldkette band, taken in New York, was mailed to Detroit and used by Graystone  topics in its account of the dedication of a hotel in Detroit. Therefore, the mystery guy is Bix. Maybe during the mayor's speech the musicians were not in their ordinary places. Tram standing up and Bix sitting in Tram's chair.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 22nd, 2018, 4:30 pm #7

Murray had a wide forehead. That is not Murray. This is Murray in 1927.


http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb8qp ... o1_500.jpg

Albert
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Joined: March 15th, 2018, 2:29 pm

March 22nd, 2018, 5:36 pm #8

I'm not sure you can rule out Murray based on that low-res picture, though. He looks somewhat similar in this image--and why would Bix be holding a saxophone?

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 22nd, 2018, 6:36 pm #9

OK, here are higher resolution photos.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/38/2f/a3/382f ... f1310b.jpg
Goldkette.jpeg
It is not clear that the mystery man is holding  a sax. I looks to me  like the sax is standing on the side of , yes, Bix!. As I said, the musicians could have moved around.

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 22nd, 2018, 7:47 pm #10

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