From "Bad" Eddie King for Victor to "Good" Eddie King for Columbia.

From "Bad" Eddie King for Victor to "Good" Eddie King for Columbia.

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 20th, 2012, 6:18 pm #1


Variety, Feb 9, 1927, p. 47.



Albert
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Laura Demilio
Laura Demilio

March 21st, 2012, 4:41 pm #2

putting on a good face since he'd gotten such a deservedly bad rap at Victor?

When one thinks of his despotic stuffiness, quashing anything "jazzy" and remotely individual among creative artists at Victor, it's no wonder a free-spirited, easygoing person like Bix would find in King a surly nemesis -- having all those creative ideas stomped on (and possibly King resentfully detesting a likeable personality as well?), and the fact that the Goldkette guys, instead of their accustomed hot dance tunes, had to play some real glop sometimes (c'mon, do any of you REALLY like "I'm Looking Over a Four-Leaf Clover"? How about some of the stuff the Keller Sisters and Lynch snarled through their noses which was recorded around that time? Only Bix weaving something decent into those songs redeems, if not totally rescues, those hokey tunes).

Bill Challis found a lot of it loathsome, referring to those songs as "some real dogs; we all hated them," but Eddie King and the Victor execs made them record that instead of the hot music the Goldkette band was famous for -- insisting that the bourgeois, white-bread, fustily middle-aged American taste was what everyone listened to, as if those were the ONLY people buying the records!

Think of what the Goldkette band would have turned out if they hadn't been forcibly repressed by the Victor big-shots. I still gnash my teeth to think that Stampede would have been a wow of a side on the "My Pretty Girl" disk -- but no one has ever been able to find even a discard/rejected take of the recording. Weren't they all destroyed?

The Trumbauer Okeh sides and the fanciful ventures Whiteman encouraged with "From Monday On" "Lonely Melody" and so forth lets us know what Bix was supposed to ALWAYS have been meant to be doing. It's just too bad that Eddie King had to be terrorizing the Victor studios in the mid-1920's, and we don't have much in the way of "real Goldkette" recordings of the era.

Laura



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Andy Schumm
Andy Schumm

March 21st, 2012, 7:33 pm #3

I think the records that exist are "real Goldkette." In fact, I'd be willing to bet that we get a lot more hot stuff on record than you would have heard in person. Sure, the guys wanted to record different stuff, but look at what they did with those tunes they did end up recording. I think it's a lot more informative to have the guys playing working arrangements than blowing their brains out on an open solo section. There's plenty of that stuff later on in the 30s (and it continues today), and frankly I'm tired of it.

The Goldkette sides of 1927 are still a breath of fresh air to me, and that's why I listen to them everyday. Listen to Sunny Disposish again. (Two takes!) The arrangement is incredible. Listen to the fire the put into its performance. I suspect it's a Don Murray arrangement, by the way.

Andy
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 21st, 2012, 8:22 pm #4


From the many postings, here are a couple that I think are useful.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/me ... 155656173/

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/me ... 155687479/

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 21st, 2012, 8:26 pm #5


And I agree with Andy, <em>"the records that exist are "real Goldkette."</em>

Albert
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Jon Pytko
Jon Pytko

March 23rd, 2012, 3:15 am #6

putting on a good face since he'd gotten such a deservedly bad rap at Victor?

When one thinks of his despotic stuffiness, quashing anything "jazzy" and remotely individual among creative artists at Victor, it's no wonder a free-spirited, easygoing person like Bix would find in King a surly nemesis -- having all those creative ideas stomped on (and possibly King resentfully detesting a likeable personality as well?), and the fact that the Goldkette guys, instead of their accustomed hot dance tunes, had to play some real glop sometimes (c'mon, do any of you REALLY like "I'm Looking Over a Four-Leaf Clover"? How about some of the stuff the Keller Sisters and Lynch snarled through their noses which was recorded around that time? Only Bix weaving something decent into those songs redeems, if not totally rescues, those hokey tunes).

Bill Challis found a lot of it loathsome, referring to those songs as "some real dogs; we all hated them," but Eddie King and the Victor execs made them record that instead of the hot music the Goldkette band was famous for -- insisting that the bourgeois, white-bread, fustily middle-aged American taste was what everyone listened to, as if those were the ONLY people buying the records!

Think of what the Goldkette band would have turned out if they hadn't been forcibly repressed by the Victor big-shots. I still gnash my teeth to think that Stampede would have been a wow of a side on the "My Pretty Girl" disk -- but no one has ever been able to find even a discard/rejected take of the recording. Weren't they all destroyed?

The Trumbauer Okeh sides and the fanciful ventures Whiteman encouraged with "From Monday On" "Lonely Melody" and so forth lets us know what Bix was supposed to ALWAYS have been meant to be doing. It's just too bad that Eddie King had to be terrorizing the Victor studios in the mid-1920's, and we don't have much in the way of "real Goldkette" recordings of the era.

Laura


I find it odd, to say the least, that Goldkette's winter 1926 sides, notably "Dinah," have some warmth to them, and yet those from the fall are, well, rather pedestrian in comparison.

How did something like "Dinah" get through in the first place?

That said, I love waltzes, and "Hush-a-Bye" is among my favorite waltzes by a '20's recording group. I would have loved to hear that live, just as much as "My Pretty Girl."
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Laura Demilio
Laura Demilio

March 23rd, 2012, 6:55 pm #7

I admit it. We sing it to our cat.

(that was one Bill Challis said he loathed, but I think it's sweet. I think the dopiest is Four Leaf Clover, especially singing-wise.)

Laura


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Jon Pytko
Jon Pytko

March 24th, 2012, 12:03 am #8

I think that Frank Bessinger's voice does indeed show to good advantage on the song. He has some of those fabled "golden tones" on a few notes that make me wonder if he could have done more than sing pop songs. I've seen lots of "Radio Franks" discs in the past, but never bought any. I wish that I had now. I think that he recorded until 1928-29.

Billy Murray: I like him as an acoustic artist, but when he stopped using the loud tone that he needed for that type of recording, he sounds deflated, and kind of grandmotherish. Although it's a moot point, among the acoustic pioneers still recording in 1927, Henry Burr's voice sounds very much the same as it did twenty years earlier. I'd put him in the "crooner" category, even if he pre-dates the phenomenon by a few years. Certainly a more masculine sound than, let's say, Seger Ellis.
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John Leifert
John Leifert

March 24th, 2012, 1:54 am #9

I admit it. We sing it to our cat.

(that was one Bill Challis said he loathed, but I think it's sweet. I think the dopiest is Four Leaf Clover, especially singing-wise.)

Laura

I don't know - I kind of like the juxtaposition of eras on "...Four Leaf Clover" ! The singer is Billy Murray, whose recording career went back to the turn of the 20th Century, and right after the vocal the band comes charging in like a volcano, with slapped bass and Bix-led brass section, and then one of my all-time favorite Bix breaks - in which everything stops so Bix can add his exclamation point to the whole thing. The old and new, right there to hear. (And let's not forget Joe Venuti). To me, that's pretty cool! Great coda, too.

(And I'll admit it - I'm a Billy Murray fan since I was a kid, and still find him great fun to listen to).

John L
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Fred
Fred

February 19th, 2017, 6:34 pm #10

I admit it. We sing it to our cat.

(that was one Bill Challis said he loathed, but I think it's sweet. I think the dopiest is Four Leaf Clover, especially singing-wise.)

Laura

Pulled up the earliest of Deep Purple I could find on YouTube the other day, that being Paul Whiteman's 12" Columbia from 1928, unless I'm mistaken about "the 1st." I'd expected steady tempo, but instead it was concert orchestra production complete with all the swells & ebbs & crescendos & etc. DeLong's Paul Whiteman biography wrote that he [PW] called them "pot-boilers."
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