From Ate van Delden: An undiscovered Whiteman recording.

From Ate van Delden: An undiscovered Whiteman recording.

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 10th, 2018, 12:46 am #1

"I am currently going through Columbia and Okeh filecards, presently checking the Columbia 170000 matrix series.

On 16 May 1929 Paul Whiteman had a regular studio session, Rayno lists 3 titles of which only the first, Your Mother And Mine, seems to have Bix in the band.

It has so far gone unnoticed that PW recorded a 4th tune on that day. See attached file card. It was given a 170000 matrix number. This series was used for special recordings., such as those by the Princeton Triangle Jazz Band. Rayno does not mention this recording at all. It may have been made for a special occasion.

Could it be the Wedding March from Lohengrin?
I don’t expect a solo, but who knows?

Ate"

https://ibb.co/nrvn3x

Does anyone have any information?
Last edited by ahaim on February 10th, 2018, 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bob Spoo
Bob Spoo

February 10th, 2018, 2:12 am #2

On Thursday, May 3, 1923, an article appeared in the Davenport Democrat and Leader, Page 4: "Gertrude Seiffert Beiderbecke Becomes Bride of Wm. D. Washburn of Evanston." The wedding took place at the home of the bride's grandparents on 6th Street in Davenport. The article states: "Bix Beiderbecke, the cousin of the bride, was at the piano and played the wedding march as the bride entered on the arm of her father, Charles T. Beiderbecke, who gave her away."

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Coscannon
Coscannon

February 10th, 2018, 4:17 am #3

"I am currently going through Columbia and Okeh filecards, presently checking the Columbia 170000 matrix series.

On 16 May 1929 Paul Whiteman had a regular studio session, Rayno lists 3 titles of which only the first, Your Mother And Mine, seems to have Bix in the band.

It has so far gone unnoticed that PW recorded a 4th tune on that day. See attached file card. It was given a 170000 matrix number. This series was used for special recordings., such as those by the Princeton Triangle Jazz Band. Rayno does not mention this recording at all. It may have been made for a special occasion.

Could it be the Wedding March from Lohengrin?
I don’t expect a solo, but who knows?

Ate"

https://ibb.co/nrvn3x

Does anyone have any information?
His email is drayno55@aol.com
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Mark Gabrish Conlan
Mark Gabrish Conlan

February 10th, 2018, 6:25 am #4

On Thursday, May 3, 1923, an article appeared in the Davenport Democrat and Leader, Page 4: "Gertrude Seiffert Beiderbecke Becomes Bride of Wm. D. Washburn of Evanston." The wedding took place at the home of the bride's grandparents on 6th Street in Davenport. The article states: "Bix Beiderbecke, the cousin of the bride, was at the piano and played the wedding march as the bride entered on the arm of her father, Charles T. Beiderbecke, who gave her away."
I thought I'd play through the one recording Bix is known to have made of music by Wagner, Herman Hand's "Grand Fantasia from Wagneriana" recorded with Paul Whiteman February 14, 1928, to see if it contained the Wedding March from "Lohengrin." It doesn't. Here are the contents of Hand's fantasy as I could recognize them:

Magic Fire Music from “Die Walküre”
Announcement of Siegfried’s Conception from “Die Walküre”
“Heda, Heda, Hedo!” and thunderclap revealing Valhalla from “Das Rheingold”
Opening storm scene from “Die Walküre”
Pilgrims’ Chorus from “Tannhäuser”
“Liebestod” from “Tristan und Isolde”
Reprise of Pilgrims’ Chorus from “Tannhäuser”
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Fred
Fred

February 10th, 2018, 7:25 am #5

"I am currently going through Columbia and Okeh filecards, presently checking the Columbia 170000 matrix series.

On 16 May 1929 Paul Whiteman had a regular studio session, Rayno lists 3 titles of which only the first, Your Mother And Mine, seems to have Bix in the band.

It has so far gone unnoticed that PW recorded a 4th tune on that day. See attached file card. It was given a 170000 matrix number. This series was used for special recordings., such as those by the Princeton Triangle Jazz Band. Rayno does not mention this recording at all. It may have been made for a special occasion.

Could it be the Wedding March from Lohengrin?
I don’t expect a solo, but who knows?

Ate"

https://ibb.co/nrvn3x

Does anyone have any information?
Googled on this for half an hour just now.... Couldn't turn up search match for "Paul Whiteman" and "Wedding March" / Lonhegrin.

Was Columbia's Western Electric matrix / Personal issue # 176,400 or # 170,400...?... unsure here of the card scrawl. Rust's four-volume Columbia matrix/master reference book set, a possible lead for this... couldn't guess if Personal issues' matrices are encompassed therein.

Found the UCSB web page including the three recordings referenced -
http://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/d ... /1929-5-16
Columbia W148422 10-in. 5/4/1929 Your mother and mine Paul Whiteman Orchestra Jazz/dance band, with male vocal trio
Columbia W148544 10-in. 5/16/1929 S'posin' Paul Whiteman Orchestra Jazz/dance band, with male vocal solo
Columbia W148545 10-in. 5/16/1929 Laughing marionette Paul Whiteman Orchestra Jazz/dance b

The Rayno-credited Bix-present side "Your mother and mine" began recording in the first week of May '29 (on the 4th), registering ~ half-a-dozen failed matrix attempts, and resumed attempts in second week of May '29 (on the 16th), finally waxing one mastered... take 8th or thereabouts. Van Deten notes, per Rayno, that this is the only one among (the first of) three May 16, 1929 Whiteman sides to include Bix, and actually it represents a continued failed-matrix effort carried over from preceding May 4th PWO session.

Interesting in context, via querying UCSB database this evening, the Columbia "What A Day"/"Alabammy Snow" coupled orchestra sides were cut the day prior, May 15th 1929, in Columbia/Okeh studio.
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Harold Aherne
Harold Aherne

February 11th, 2018, 5:52 pm #6

The Brooks/Rust volumes (the cornerstone for Columbia data at DAHR) do not include the trial/personal/special matrix blocks. They encompass only the "general purpose" blocks for 10- and 12-inch masters recorded in the US. Some matrix numbers from other series has been added as discs have been digitised.

That being said, the surviving data on Columbia personal recordings (91000 and 170000) was compiled by Ross Laird and published on the E-Discographer website in 2000 or so:
https://web.archive.org/web/20031209102 ... intro.html

Here is the PW content from both:

W91791-12 Southern Melodies Paul Whiteman and his Orchestra In inventory 2nd quarter 1961

W91930-1 Contains Theme Say It With Music 170540-2 (several others use this with dubbings of Paul Whiteman Orch. also Paul Tremaine, Ted Wallace, Ben Selvin) Sept. 18, 1930

Paul Whiteman Orch.
W91932 - New tiger rag Columbia Tele-Focal Radio Series Prog. #1, Pt. C [dubbed from mx W150683]

Paul Whiteman & his Orchestra May 16, 1929
W170400-12 Wedding March

"2nd quarter 1961" is an inventory date, i.e. Columbia still had metal parts at that time. W91930 is probably a Tele-Focal dubbing.

--HA
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 12th, 2018, 4:49 pm #7

I will send the link to your posting to Ate.

Albert
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Ralph Wondraschek
Ralph Wondraschek

February 16th, 2018, 11:22 am #8

... were scanned / digitized by myself, here at the Heidelberg University's microfilm machine - 97995 scans in all, and approx. 300 GB of data...

Hard work, but also great fun.

Ralph
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wellwisher
wellwisher

February 16th, 2018, 4:30 pm #9

Ralph,
That's great work. You deserve the thanks of us all.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 16th, 2018, 9:21 pm #10

... were scanned / digitized by myself, here at the Heidelberg University's microfilm machine - 97995 scans in all, and approx. 300 GB of data...

Hard work, but also great fun.

Ralph
Are the results of your painstaking work available online?

Albert
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