Fred Rich or the California Ramblers?

Fred Rich or the California Ramblers?

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 22nd, 2010, 8:06 pm #1


Rust's Jazz Discography has the following listing.

Fred Rich and His Orchestra: Apparently a cover name for at least some of the California Ramblers.

Chelsea Quealey, t; Tommy Dorsey, tb; Bobby Davis, cl, as; Sam Ruby, ts; Adrian Rollini, bsx; Irving Brodsky, p; Tommy Felline, bj; Stan King, d; Arthur Hall, v.

C February 3, 1926

Chinky Butterfly, A Little Bit Bad; Drifting and Dreaming. Issued on PA and Per.

Around this time the California Ramblers made recordings for PA/Per under the pseudonym "Palace Garden Orchestra," "Rayner's Dance Orchestra," "Miami Melodists, " "Rockaway Ramblers" and, I believe, under their own nmae. So why would they use still another pseudonym, and one of a real band? Fred Rich was also recordidng for PA/Per around this time. Did he owe them a recording session, but could not make it and asked the Ramblers to substitute?

Admittedly, sheer speculation. Does anyone know? 

Does anyone have oany of the three sides listed above? How does the band sound? Rich or Ramblers?

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 22nd, 2010, 10:26 pm #2


.... Fred Rich's " A Little Bit Bad."

http://bixography.com/ALittleBadFredRich.ram

Sounds more like the California Ramblers than Fred Rich.

Opinions?

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 23rd, 2010, 12:19 am #3


.... on Feb 2, 1926,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_0-AkkzVM

one day before the recording of "A Little Bit Bad." According to Rust the trumpet players are Hymie Farberman and Leo McConville or Mike Mosiello. I think it is Hymie Farberman in the Bixian solo. The trombonist is Miff Mole.

And here are the California Ramblers on April 26, 1926, a couple of months after the recording of "A Little Bit Bad."

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/carambl ... Friend.ram

amd a couple of months before.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/carambl ... Friend.ram

Albert
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Jim Baldwin
Jim Baldwin

January 23rd, 2010, 2:22 pm #4

.... Fred Rich's " A Little Bit Bad."

http://bixography.com/ALittleBadFredRich.ram

Sounds more like the California Ramblers than Fred Rich.

Opinions?

Albert
There is a brass base and the sax solo is a baritone. fine recording though.
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Nick Dellow
Nick Dellow

January 23rd, 2010, 4:17 pm #5


I totally agree with Jim that the sax solo is a baritone sax and not a bass sax, as I told Albert that I thought it was a baritone sax solo when I sent the mp3. Albert thinks it is a bass sax solo, so we have a divergence of opinion here!

I also agree that it is unlikely to be a California Ramblers date. Brian Rust states (in Jazz Records) that, for this session, the Fred Rich Orchestra is "Apparently a cover name for at least some of the California Ramblers". I don't see the need to state it in this way, which is somewhat misleading. One could just as easily, and more logically, state that "this Fred Rich 'studio band' session features some musicians more usually associated with the California Ramblers"!

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Veniero Molari
Veniero Molari

January 23rd, 2010, 4:52 pm #6

Rust's Jazz Discography has the following listing.

Fred Rich and His Orchestra: Apparently a cover name for at least some of the California Ramblers.

Chelsea Quealey, t; Tommy Dorsey, tb; Bobby Davis, cl, as; Sam Ruby, ts; Adrian Rollini, bsx; Irving Brodsky, p; Tommy Felline, bj; Stan King, d; Arthur Hall, v.

C February 3, 1926

Chinky Butterfly, A Little Bit Bad; Drifting and Dreaming. Issued on PA and Per.

Around this time the California Ramblers made recordings for PA/Per under the pseudonym "Palace Garden Orchestra," "Rayner's Dance Orchestra," "Miami Melodists, " "Rockaway Ramblers" and, I believe, under their own nmae. So why would they use still another pseudonym, and one of a real band? Fred Rich was also recordidng for PA/Per around this time. Did he owe them a recording session, but could not make it and asked the Ramblers to substitute?

Admittedly, sheer speculation. Does anyone know? 

Does anyone have oany of the three sides listed above? How does the band sound? Rich or Ramblers?

Albert
Dear Albert,would you kindly remind that,as checked by yourself in the ledgers of Kaufman,the name of this wonderful American-Italian banjoist is not FELLINE,but FELLINI? Thanks,Veniero
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 23rd, 2010, 7:06 pm #7

Rust's Jazz Discography has the following listing.

Fred Rich and His Orchestra: Apparently a cover name for at least some of the California Ramblers.

Chelsea Quealey, t; Tommy Dorsey, tb; Bobby Davis, cl, as; Sam Ruby, ts; Adrian Rollini, bsx; Irving Brodsky, p; Tommy Felline, bj; Stan King, d; Arthur Hall, v.

C February 3, 1926

Chinky Butterfly, A Little Bit Bad; Drifting and Dreaming. Issued on PA and Per.

Around this time the California Ramblers made recordings for PA/Per under the pseudonym "Palace Garden Orchestra," "Rayner's Dance Orchestra," "Miami Melodists, " "Rockaway Ramblers" and, I believe, under their own nmae. So why would they use still another pseudonym, and one of a real band? Fred Rich was also recordidng for PA/Per around this time. Did he owe them a recording session, but could not make it and asked the Ramblers to substitute?

Admittedly, sheer speculation. Does anyone know? 

Does anyone have oany of the three sides listed above? How does the band sound? Rich or Ramblers?

Albert
In his Tommy Dorsey discography, "Tommy Dorsey: On the Side," Stockdale lists Tommy Dorsey as the trombonist in the Feb 3, 1926 session of Fred Rich and his orchestra.

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 23rd, 2010, 9:03 pm #8

Rust's Jazz Discography has the following listing.

Fred Rich and His Orchestra: Apparently a cover name for at least some of the California Ramblers.

Chelsea Quealey, t; Tommy Dorsey, tb; Bobby Davis, cl, as; Sam Ruby, ts; Adrian Rollini, bsx; Irving Brodsky, p; Tommy Felline, bj; Stan King, d; Arthur Hall, v.

C February 3, 1926

Chinky Butterfly, A Little Bit Bad; Drifting and Dreaming. Issued on PA and Per.

Around this time the California Ramblers made recordings for PA/Per under the pseudonym "Palace Garden Orchestra," "Rayner's Dance Orchestra," "Miami Melodists, " "Rockaway Ramblers" and, I believe, under their own nmae. So why would they use still another pseudonym, and one of a real band? Fred Rich was also recordidng for PA/Per around this time. Did he owe them a recording session, but could not make it and asked the Ramblers to substitute?

Admittedly, sheer speculation. Does anyone know? 

Does anyone have oany of the three sides listed above? How does the band sound? Rich or Ramblers?

Albert
..... the Fred Rich session of Feb 3, 1926 is not listed in Kirkeby's ledgers. Thanks, Steve.

Albert
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John Leifert
John Leifert

January 26th, 2010, 10:46 pm #9

.... on Feb 2, 1926,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_0-AkkzVM

one day before the recording of "A Little Bit Bad." According to Rust the trumpet players are Hymie Farberman and Leo McConville or Mike Mosiello. I think it is Hymie Farberman in the Bixian solo. The trombonist is Miff Mole.

And here are the California Ramblers on April 26, 1926, a couple of months after the recording of "A Little Bit Bad."

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/carambl ... Friend.ram

amd a couple of months before.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/carambl ... Friend.ram

Albert
"A Little Bit Bad" and "Poor Papa" sound like the same group to me! I think the baritone sax threw people off, and intimations of the "California Ramblers" started - however, there are actually some quite hot Fred Rich items from this period. The overall "swing" of the two sides (which is quite delightful) sounds very similar to me.

At any rate, a record I'd be happy to have in my collection!

John L
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