Dear Old Southland = Deep River

Dear Old Southland = Deep River

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 15th, 2011, 8:12 pm #1


"Dear Old Southland"



is credited to Henry Creamer and Turner Layton. The team produced several important songs: <em>After You've Gone, Way Down Yonder in New Orleans and Deep Down South </em>(link to Bix).

Dear Old Southland is not an original composition by Creamer and Layton. It is based on an old negro spiritual, "Deep River."

The first recording of the tune that I knew of before I started looking into it was that of Paul Whiteman and His Orchestra of Dec 23, 1921. The theme from <em>Deep River</em> is followed by a Spanish tinged St Louis Blues type thing based on <em>Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child.</em> This recordidng also introduces <em>Nobody Knows</em> and has a coda that quotes <em>Way Down Upon the Swanee River. </em>Listen.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/whiteman/dosouthl.ra

Another recording I knew was that by the Original Wolverines (no Bix) waxed on May 24, 1928. The alto sax and clarinet solos are by Maure Bercav. He sounds a lot like the great Frank Teschmacher. The late Frank Powers thought it was Tesch.

http://redhotjazz.com/Songs/OWolverines/dearold.ra

There are many other recordings of the tune. The first ever is by James P. Johnson on Dec 5, 1921.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/JPJohnson/dearold.ra   I am sure you will think that I am nuts, but I hear a bit of the dynamic/rhythm of King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band in the jazzy sections.

Here is Satchmo on trumpet accompanied by Buck Washington on piano, Apr 5, 1930.

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramt/TS488065.ram   very interesting. Louis quotes from other compositions during his improvisations

I like a lot Duke Ellington's version of  Dec 4, 1933, recorded in Chicago. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VRXe-5F7Rg

And take a look at the record label of the Argentine RCA Victor disc.



Here is the May 10, 1927 recording of <em>Deep River </em>by the great Paul Robeson accompanied by Lawrence Brown on piano. No doubt that one of the themes in <em>Dear Old Southland </em>comes from this old negro spiritual.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf3Z4SRgdEE   

When Creamer and Layton published their composition <em>Dear Old Southland</em>, there was an uproar in the African American community. Note that Creamer and Layton were also African Americans.. Read the following excerpt from <em>The Coming of "Deep River"</em> by Wayne D. Shirley, <em>American Music</em>, Vol. 15, No. 4 (Winter, 1997), pp. 493-534, published by the <font size="3" face="Times New Roman,Times">University of Illinois Press.</font>
<font size="2"></font>
<em><strong>The year 1921 saw no copyright of a piece with the title "Deep River." But it did see the publication of the next significant work in the history of the song: "Dear Old Southland," with lyrics by Henry Creamer (1879-1930) and music by Turner Layton (1894-1978).  Creamer and Layton were an important black songwriting team, best known now for "After You've Gone" (1918) and "'Way Down Yon-der in New Orleans" (1922). "Dear Old Southland" is an AABBA popular song (without verse), in which the A sections are a straightforward reuse of the opening measures of "Deep River." The B section, in the parallel minor, is based on "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child." The treatment of the musical material is more inventive than in the A section; the words are worse. </strong></em>

<em><strong>"Dear Old Southland" was a considerable hit: it was recorded enough times by  jazz groups to make the Crawford-Magee Core Repertory of Jazz Standards, and it was recorded by singers such as Jules Bledsoe and Paul Robeson. Lovers of the spirituals, shocked by the popularity of "Dear Old Southland," wrote in protest of this debasement of a great song. Lucien J. White, music columnist for the New York Age, devoted his column of July 8, 1922, to the "Desecration of 'Deep River"' (he deals with "Dear Old Southland" entirely in terms of "Deep River": "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child" was yet to have its day). And Burleigh, who had not commented about competing arrangements of "Deep River," thundered in a letter that the NAACP press service duly made public: How can it be stopped? These gentlemen seem not to realize that they offend the deepest sentiments of the race. They seem incapable of comprehending the enormity of the offense and the far-reaching effect upon future generations.... [Can they be made to have] sufficient racial pride to refuse to prostitute the inherent religious beauty of our Spirituals? Can we not convince them that it is all in bad taste: that it is like polluting a great, free fountain of pure melody?</strong></em>

<font size="2"><font size="3"><em><strong>We cannot dismiss "Dear Old Southland" as Lucien White and Bur-leigh did: there have just been too many great performances of this jazz standard. "Dear Old Southland" has given jazz groups the chance to play "Deep River" (and "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child") without putting on their somewhat constricting jazzing-the-classics outfits, and the great melodies have rewarded the performers. The first jazz recording of "Dear Old Southland," by James P. Johnson's Harmony Eight (the only such recording of the tune made in the year of its publication but see note below), is a straightforward early 1920s record, enjoyable "if you like that sort of thing" (I do), but not remarkable (James P. Johnson himself is not audible in the recording). But the re-discovery of the tune by jazz groups in the late 1920s produced an extraordinary set of recordings, starting in 1928 with the Original Wolverines, the first time the "Deep River" changes are used as the basis for jazz improvisation. Other recordings include the Louis Armstrong/Buck Washington performance "to entertain the boys" and the 1941 Ellington recording, in which Cootie Williams's muted-trumpet solo approaches the sound of human speech so closely we feel we can almost take down its words-words far more eloquent than Creamer's lyrics. </strong></em></font></font>

<font size="2"><font size="3">Note: the author missed the Dec 23, 1921 recording  of the song by Paul Whiteman.</font></font>

<font size="2"><font size="3">Albert</font></font>
Quote
Like
Share

Ken Bristow
Ken Bristow

June 16th, 2011, 6:07 am #2

Albert, another Creamer-Layton song from 1920 associated with Bix and the Hotsy Totsy Gang, "Strut Miss Lizzie".
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 16th, 2011, 1:39 pm #3


I was fixated with the words "Deep" and "Southland" so I came up, incorrectly with "Deep Down South" (composed by Collins and Green) as one of Cramer and Layton's compositions. Wrong. I meant, as you correctly point out, "Strut Mizss Lizzie."

Albert

"Strut Miss Lizzie" was introduced by Van and Schenk in the 1921 Ziegfield Follies. Take a look at the delightful cover of the sheet music.



There was also a Broadway show titled "Strut Miss Lizzie." It ran in the Times Square Theatre 6/19/1922 - 7/8/1922 and in the Earl Carroll Theatre 7/10/1922 - 8/26/1922. Here are the credits.

Lyrics by J. Turner Layton; Music by Henry Creamer; Musical Director: Joe Jordan; Featuring songs by Joe Jordan

Staged by Henry Creamer

Songs in the production.

<strong></strong>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" width="100%"><tr><th colspan="3"></th></tr><tr><th></th><th> </th><th> </th></tr><tr><td>
Act 1

Dear Old Southland <em></em>
</td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Buzz Mirandy <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Darktown Poker Club <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Nobody's Gal <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>My Hometown <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Creole Belles <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Dixie <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Lovesick Blues <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>In Yama <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Crooning/Wyoming Lullaby/Down Yonder <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Breakin' a Leg <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Brother-in-Law Dan <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Lonesome Longing Blues <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>New Orleans <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Ebony Rag <em></em>
<span class="prod_song_credits">(music by Joe Jordan)</span></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Bernice <em></em>
<span class="prod_song_credits">(music by Joe Jordan)</span></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>At the Ball <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><th colspan="3"></th></tr><tr><th></th><th> </th><th> </th></tr><tr><td>
Act 2

Hoola, from Coney Isle <em></em>
</td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Mandy <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>I Wanna Dance <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Fan Miss Fannie <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Il Trovatore <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>When You Look in the Eyes of a Mule <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Four Fo' Me <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Jazz Blues <em></em></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Sweet Angeline </td></tr></table>
 

Curiously enough, "Strut Misss Lizzie" is not one of the songs in the production, but "Dear Old Southland" is!!!

Several recordings of the tune.

Al Bernard with Carl Fenton's Orchestra   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hTgYXUYHw8

Mary Stafford and her Jazz Orchestra    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XAd-GJisRI

Jack Teagarden was in the Bix recording. Here he is again playing the tune, 17 years later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzJFuYEKZ4A

The Times Square Theatre was built in 1920. It is still standing.

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://photos.cinematreasures.org/produ ... /large.jpg">

 

 
Last edited by ahaim on June 16th, 2011, 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Glenda Childress
Glenda Childress

June 16th, 2011, 3:23 pm #4

Thanks, Albert, for all the background on "Strut Miss Lizzie." You're a gentleman and a scholar, as they say.

The Teagarden version was great. I appreciated the small salute to the Bix version in the short reprise of the Hotsy Totsy's intro <em>and</em> the hot trio with Goodman, Teagarden, and Bix on the rideout. Hot and wailing!
Quote
Share

Ken Bristow
Ken Bristow

June 17th, 2011, 12:01 pm #5

Hot and wailing! Spot on Glenda! Of the three Hotsy Totsy Gang titles, Lizzie (unfairly) rarely gets a mention. Now thanks to Albert's delving into the archives, Miss Lizzie is getting busy struttin' her stuff again!
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 17th, 2011, 8:43 pm #6

"Dear Old Southland"



is credited to Henry Creamer and Turner Layton. The team produced several important songs: <em>After You've Gone, Way Down Yonder in New Orleans and Deep Down South </em>(link to Bix).

Dear Old Southland is not an original composition by Creamer and Layton. It is based on an old negro spiritual, "Deep River."

The first recording of the tune that I knew of before I started looking into it was that of Paul Whiteman and His Orchestra of Dec 23, 1921. The theme from <em>Deep River</em> is followed by a Spanish tinged St Louis Blues type thing based on <em>Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child.</em> This recordidng also introduces <em>Nobody Knows</em> and has a coda that quotes <em>Way Down Upon the Swanee River. </em>Listen.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/whiteman/dosouthl.ra

Another recording I knew was that by the Original Wolverines (no Bix) waxed on May 24, 1928. The alto sax and clarinet solos are by Maure Bercav. He sounds a lot like the great Frank Teschmacher. The late Frank Powers thought it was Tesch.

http://redhotjazz.com/Songs/OWolverines/dearold.ra

There are many other recordings of the tune. The first ever is by James P. Johnson on Dec 5, 1921.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/JPJohnson/dearold.ra   I am sure you will think that I am nuts, but I hear a bit of the dynamic/rhythm of King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band in the jazzy sections.

Here is Satchmo on trumpet accompanied by Buck Washington on piano, Apr 5, 1930.

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramt/TS488065.ram   very interesting. Louis quotes from other compositions during his improvisations

I like a lot Duke Ellington's version of  Dec 4, 1933, recorded in Chicago. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VRXe-5F7Rg

And take a look at the record label of the Argentine RCA Victor disc.



Here is the May 10, 1927 recording of <em>Deep River </em>by the great Paul Robeson accompanied by Lawrence Brown on piano. No doubt that one of the themes in <em>Dear Old Southland </em>comes from this old negro spiritual.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf3Z4SRgdEE   

When Creamer and Layton published their composition <em>Dear Old Southland</em>, there was an uproar in the African American community. Note that Creamer and Layton were also African Americans.. Read the following excerpt from <em>The Coming of "Deep River"</em> by Wayne D. Shirley, <em>American Music</em>, Vol. 15, No. 4 (Winter, 1997), pp. 493-534, published by the <font size="3" face="Times New Roman,Times">University of Illinois Press.</font>
<font size="2"></font>
<em><strong>The year 1921 saw no copyright of a piece with the title "Deep River." But it did see the publication of the next significant work in the history of the song: "Dear Old Southland," with lyrics by Henry Creamer (1879-1930) and music by Turner Layton (1894-1978).  Creamer and Layton were an important black songwriting team, best known now for "After You've Gone" (1918) and "'Way Down Yon-der in New Orleans" (1922). "Dear Old Southland" is an AABBA popular song (without verse), in which the A sections are a straightforward reuse of the opening measures of "Deep River." The B section, in the parallel minor, is based on "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child." The treatment of the musical material is more inventive than in the A section; the words are worse. </strong></em>

<em><strong>"Dear Old Southland" was a considerable hit: it was recorded enough times by  jazz groups to make the Crawford-Magee Core Repertory of Jazz Standards, and it was recorded by singers such as Jules Bledsoe and Paul Robeson. Lovers of the spirituals, shocked by the popularity of "Dear Old Southland," wrote in protest of this debasement of a great song. Lucien J. White, music columnist for the New York Age, devoted his column of July 8, 1922, to the "Desecration of 'Deep River"' (he deals with "Dear Old Southland" entirely in terms of "Deep River": "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child" was yet to have its day). And Burleigh, who had not commented about competing arrangements of "Deep River," thundered in a letter that the NAACP press service duly made public: How can it be stopped? These gentlemen seem not to realize that they offend the deepest sentiments of the race. They seem incapable of comprehending the enormity of the offense and the far-reaching effect upon future generations.... [Can they be made to have] sufficient racial pride to refuse to prostitute the inherent religious beauty of our Spirituals? Can we not convince them that it is all in bad taste: that it is like polluting a great, free fountain of pure melody?</strong></em>

<font size="2"><font size="3"><em><strong>We cannot dismiss "Dear Old Southland" as Lucien White and Bur-leigh did: there have just been too many great performances of this jazz standard. "Dear Old Southland" has given jazz groups the chance to play "Deep River" (and "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child") without putting on their somewhat constricting jazzing-the-classics outfits, and the great melodies have rewarded the performers. The first jazz recording of "Dear Old Southland," by James P. Johnson's Harmony Eight (the only such recording of the tune made in the year of its publication but see note below), is a straightforward early 1920s record, enjoyable "if you like that sort of thing" (I do), but not remarkable (James P. Johnson himself is not audible in the recording). But the re-discovery of the tune by jazz groups in the late 1920s produced an extraordinary set of recordings, starting in 1928 with the Original Wolverines, the first time the "Deep River" changes are used as the basis for jazz improvisation. Other recordings include the Louis Armstrong/Buck Washington performance "to entertain the boys" and the 1941 Ellington recording, in which Cootie Williams's muted-trumpet solo approaches the sound of human speech so closely we feel we can almost take down its words-words far more eloquent than Creamer's lyrics. </strong></em></font></font>

<font size="2"><font size="3">Note: the author missed the Dec 23, 1921 recording  of the song by Paul Whiteman.</font></font>

<font size="2"><font size="3">Albert</font></font>
Rob kindly sends an mp3 and a scan of the record label of  DickMcDonough's recording of <em>Dear Old Southland. </em>



bixbeiderbecke.com/DearOldSouthlandMcDonough.mp3

Recorded June 23, 1926 in New York.  Bunny Berigan (t), Artie Shaw (cl), Larry Binyon (cl, ts), Adrian Rollini (bsx), Claude Thornhill (p), Dick McDonough (g) unknown sb, Chauncey Morehouse (d), Buddy Clark, v, possibly others.

I only hear what seems to be a bass sax in ensemble work for several seconds after the vocal. I don't hear the typical driving bass line I am accostumed  to hear in Rollini recordings.  Comments? No trombone? Great solo by Artie.

Thanks, Rob.

Get a load of the number of musicians with connections to Bix, over 50 %.

Albert
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 17th, 2011, 9:12 pm #7


I have been unable to ftp to bixbeiderbecke.com or bixography.com The ftp program is fine. The server is kaput, I am afraid. I am investigating this. bixbeiderbecke.com and bixography.com are not connecting. [url=mailto:ahaim@bixography.com]ahaim@bixography.com[/url] iis also dead. If you need to write, use [url=mailto:alberthaim@yahoo.com]alberthaim@yahoo.com[/url]

Albert


Forum Owner
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 17th, 2011, 10:28 pm #8


I was sweating for a while.

Albert
Quote
Like
Share

Glenda Childress
Glenda Childress

June 18th, 2011, 12:06 am #9

Rob kindly sends an mp3 and a scan of the record label of  DickMcDonough's recording of <em>Dear Old Southland. </em>



bixbeiderbecke.com/DearOldSouthlandMcDonough.mp3

Recorded June 23, 1926 in New York.  Bunny Berigan (t), Artie Shaw (cl), Larry Binyon (cl, ts), Adrian Rollini (bsx), Claude Thornhill (p), Dick McDonough (g) unknown sb, Chauncey Morehouse (d), Buddy Clark, v, possibly others.

I only hear what seems to be a bass sax in ensemble work for several seconds after the vocal. I don't hear the typical driving bass line I am accostumed  to hear in Rollini recordings.  Comments? No trombone? Great solo by Artie.

Thanks, Rob.

Get a load of the number of musicians with connections to Bix, over 50 %.

Albert
Thanks for this upload. Hearing Bunny Berigan at age 18 and Artie Shaw at just 16 is something amazing.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 18th, 2011, 12:32 am #10


The year was 1936, not 1926!!

Albert
Quote
Like
Share