Brian Rust and Nick LaRocca Speak

Brian Rust and Nick LaRocca Speak

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 21st, 2009, 10:07 pm #1


Abou three years ago, Enrico, with his characteristic generosity, while visiting Richard Sudhalter in Southold, LI, NY, gave me a CD with lots of Nick Larocca's material. I misplaced the CD. About a year ago, Veniero sent me a copy of one of the tracks in the CD. See

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1219617346

Searching for something else, I just found the CD Enrico gave me. So I uploaded the tape made when Brian vRust isited Nick LaRocca in New Orleans, decades ago. Here is the link

http://bixography.com/RustLaRocca.ram

More tracks will be uploaded in the next few days.

Albert
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alex revell
alex revell

September 23rd, 2009, 5:34 pm #2

I see no point whatsoever in publishing this bigoted racist nonsense. It does nobody any favours, least of all La Rocca. As for dear old Brian Rust,it must have been very dark up there.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 23rd, 2009, 7:51 pm #3


Nick LaRocca was a pioneer in the field of jazz. According to most historical accounts, the ODJB, with Nick LaRocca, was the first band to wax a jazz recording. See, for example

http://web.archive.org/web/20060908233724<a href="http://www.garlic.com/~tgracyk/jasband.htm" target="_new">http://www.garlic.com/~tgracyk/jasband.htm</a>

http://www.redhotjazz.com/jazz1917.html

Victor 18255 by the ODJB is one of the most influential recordings in jazz history.

Brian Rust is, in my opinion and that of many others, the foremost authority in the field of jazz discography. His books are essential for an understanding of the history of jazz.

The point in publishing Nick LaRocca's and Brian Rust's tapes is to make available to all forum readers the views of and accounts by two crucial individuals in the history of jazz, one a pioneer in producing the music, the other an eminent scholar in researching the chronology, the who, when and where of jazz recordings.

Albert Haim
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 24th, 2009, 3:03 pm #4


When the truth comes out it's quite painful Alex, I spoke to a few old BLACK musicians in New Orleans in the 70's they told me the Italians were playing jazz before them !!!
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Veniero Molari
Veniero Molari

September 25th, 2009, 8:38 pm #5

Abou three years ago, Enrico, with his characteristic generosity, while visiting Richard Sudhalter in Southold, LI, NY, gave me a CD with lots of Nick Larocca's material. I misplaced the CD. About a year ago, Veniero sent me a copy of one of the tracks in the CD. See

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1219617346

Searching for something else, I just found the CD Enrico gave me. So I uploaded the tape made when Brian vRust isited Nick LaRocca in New Orleans, decades ago. Here is the link

http://bixography.com/RustLaRocca.ram

More tracks will be uploaded in the next few days.

Albert
I think that all the texts should be shorthand typed and written,in order to preserve them for ever (and also to permit an easier understanding also for non-Americans.Anybody volunteers? Veniero
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Enrico Borsetti
Enrico Borsetti

September 25th, 2009, 8:50 pm #6

I see no point whatsoever in publishing this bigoted racist nonsense. It does nobody any favours, least of all La Rocca. As for dear old Brian Rust,it must have been very dark up there.
Mr. Revell,
the old man had good, valid reasons to be upset since he was neglected by the 'jazz purists' of the period: Marshall Stearns, Panassié and the like.
In Jazz there is a reversed racism created right by these ones above, if the players aren't black, they're not good jazzmen. I suggest you to read what Rudi Blesh, Albert Murray, Stanley Crouch and others said about La Rocca, Bix and other whites.
Then I think you'll change your opinion over the 'racist' Dominick James La Rocca...
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Veniero molari
Veniero molari

September 25th, 2009, 9:33 pm #7

I see no point whatsoever in publishing this bigoted racist nonsense. It does nobody any favours, least of all La Rocca. As for dear old Brian Rust,it must have been very dark up there.
I can not understand why so many Europeans are sharing the theories of the Russian refugee Hugues Panassiev .He had at his disposal only the few records imported to France in the twenties,this fact due to high customs duty and scarce interest to non french dance music.His grat merit was to have raised the interest of the world to jazz as an art,Of course this was not the case of Britons,after the O.D.J.B visited England.After the first six years since Storyville closed, finally the Original Creole Jazz Band started the long way of marvelous Negro players (don't blame me for the use of the "Negro" word:the capital "N" was in high respect) NOBODY considered Negro spirituals as a non respectful racist term .:how do you call them? African-American religious songs? Come on,please,and do not be a racist against the Whites.Or you better like Milton Mezz Mezzrow " qui a voulu se faire noir" (Panassié's words.IT WAS ONLY A QUESTION OF PERSONAL GENIUS,regardless his race or religion,just to specify clearly that I am not a racist.nor a fanatic extremist.That for the moment
Veniero Molari
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Ken Bristow
Ken Bristow

September 25th, 2009, 11:51 pm #8

I think that all the texts should be shorthand typed and written,in order to preserve them for ever (and also to permit an easier understanding also for non-Americans.Anybody volunteers? Veniero
Perhaps this Black/White question wouldn't have arisen if, from the earliest days when jazz was evolving as a brand new art form in the USA, musicians of all races had played side by side. Since the earliest times, like most things in America, jazz has always been segregated along racial lines. How many examples of bands of a racial mix are there that come to mind? Fats Waller with Whiteman in the mid-twenties or Miley in Hoagy's Band in 1930? But they were only in the recording studios. There are very few others. In the swing era Benny Goodman used the occasional Black musician. But not until the All-Star poll winners sessions of the early forties were there examples of a true multi racial mix of jazz musicians making records together. When American Black musicians visited Europe in the twenties and thirties they were surprised by the welcome they received from white audiences and met with very little racism. Many preferred playing in the more free atmosphere in European countries rather than experience the restrictions of the color bar in operation back home.
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Nick Dellow
Nick Dellow

September 26th, 2009, 10:29 am #9

Mr. Revell,
the old man had good, valid reasons to be upset since he was neglected by the 'jazz purists' of the period: Marshall Stearns, Panassié and the like.
In Jazz there is a reversed racism created right by these ones above, if the players aren't black, they're not good jazzmen. I suggest you to read what Rudi Blesh, Albert Murray, Stanley Crouch and others said about La Rocca, Bix and other whites.
Then I think you'll change your opinion over the 'racist' Dominick James La Rocca...
It is true that La Rocca suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous critics, starting with Marshall Stearns in the mid-1930s, but if ever a man shot himself in the foot with his responses it was La Rocca. He had every right to defend the ODJB and try and remove some of the tarnish that stained its reputation - but his constant tirades were often vindictive in nature and at worst racially abusive.

As a consequence, La Rocca unwittingly provided ammunition to those that deride the ODJB, to the point where the band is now regarded amongst many jazz writers as a pariah, the untouchable outcast of jazz history. That is a great shame, because it is obvious to anyone who is not in some way biased and partisan, that the ODJB played an important role in the development of jazz during its nascent days and a crucial one in popularising it globally. But it is equally obvious that the heart of jazz beats to a profoundly black rhythm, and for La Rocca to dismiss this is as unfair as it is for jazz purists in their puritanical stance to deny the importance of Italian, Jewish, Spanish and a myriad of other "white" cultures, each of which brought its own folk music to the great American musical melting pot of the early 20th century.

Ironically, La Rocca's indignation reminds one of Jelly Roll Morton's attacks (also through DownBeat magazine) on W C Handy in the late 1930s. Indeed, Morton criticised Handy for very similar reasons. The kudos that "The Father of The Blues" received drove Morton to accuse Handy of being nothing more than a plagiarist and peddler of other people's songs, while he was the true "inventor" of jazz. The claims of both La Rocca and Morton were often unreasonable, but made by men who felt outcast. In La Rocca's case, the marginalisation continues posthumously, while Morton receives an altogether more deferential assessment of his achievements.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 26th, 2009, 11:37 am #10

Perhaps this Black/White question wouldn't have arisen if, from the earliest days when jazz was evolving as a brand new art form in the USA, musicians of all races had played side by side. Since the earliest times, like most things in America, jazz has always been segregated along racial lines. How many examples of bands of a racial mix are there that come to mind? Fats Waller with Whiteman in the mid-twenties or Miley in Hoagy's Band in 1930? But they were only in the recording studios. There are very few others. In the swing era Benny Goodman used the occasional Black musician. But not until the All-Star poll winners sessions of the early forties were there examples of a true multi racial mix of jazz musicians making records together. When American Black musicians visited Europe in the twenties and thirties they were surprised by the welcome they received from white audiences and met with very little racism. Many preferred playing in the more free atmosphere in European countries rather than experience the restrictions of the color bar in operation back home.
What about LIONEL HAMPTON?

Veniero

Last edited by ahaim on September 26th, 2009, 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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