A weird photo of the Whiteman Orchestra

A weird photo of the Whiteman Orchestra

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 19th, 2010, 3:45 pm #1


From Liberty magazine, vol. 1, no.14, Fall 1974

<a href="http://bixography.comWhitemanOLibertyMagazineAutomn1973.jpg"></a>

1. Where are all the violinists? Could the image be just a piece of a bigger photo? Does not seem to me to be the case.

2. According to Don Rayno, Eddie was with the Whiteman band from May 1929 to May 1930. Jimmy was with Whiteman from Apr 1927 to Feb 1928. Trumbauer joined Whiteman on Oct 27, 1927. Goldfield  joined Whiteman in April 1928. The four of them are in the photo. How come? (Goldfield is in the back row, second to the right of Whiteman. Eddie is in front on the far left. Tram is in the front row, second from right. Jimmy (at least he looks like Jimmy to me) is in the front row, third from right.)

3. The trumpet guys are in the back row on the right hand-side. From left to right I see Margulis, Goldfield and two more guys. The one behind Trumbauer and just to his right has ears sticking out and resembles Bix, but the hair does not look like Bix's.

What is going on?

Albert

 
Last edited by ahaim on February 19th, 2010, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Linda
Linda

February 19th, 2010, 5:07 pm #2

That picture is cropped or shortened from the full version which I have seen which is the Whiteman band on a gigantic piano with an actor in a cape holding a clarinet and standing out in front. A possible reason for no violinists in the picture might be because the whole band would not fit on the piano prop. So for some reason it was decided the violinists would be omitted.
I can just hear Venuti, "You don't need us for the picture! What's the big idea? Don't you think we are important enough?"

Nice to see Eddie Lang out in front holding his guitar.
Probably no Bix in the picture because the picture was taken at Universal the 2nd time the orchestra came out to Hollywood to make the film and Bix was no longer in the orchestra.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 19th, 2010, 9:03 pm #3


.... third from the right? He looked like Jimmy Dorsey to me. Jimmy did not participate in the film "The King of Jazz." If not Jimmy, then everything falls into place. Could he be Red Maier? Enrico recently sent a link to a website with info on Red Maier.

http://www.sthelenardwinery.com/pages.php?pageid=1

Albert
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Frank van Nus
Frank van Nus

February 20th, 2010, 12:24 am #4


The third person from the right is Charlie Strickfaden. A much sharper print of the same picture can be found in "Black Beauty, White Heat".

And yes, this is a still from the "King Of Jazz" giant piano set. The violin section is seated to the left of this little tableau. Behind Eddie Lang, from left to right: Willie Hall, John Bowman, Johnny Fulton, Mike Trafficante, Larry Collins, Mike Pingitore, George Marsh, PW, Chet Hazlett, Charlie Strickfaden, Charlie Margulis, Harry Goldfield, Frank Trumbauer, Andy Secrest, Bernie Daly and (hidden behind Daly) Izzy Friedman.

Incidentally, and despite of what the Maier website says, the guy playing "Piccolo Pete" in "The King Of Jazz" is Bernie Daly, not Roy Maier.

Frank
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 20th, 2010, 1:44 pm #5


Roy Maier from http://www.sthelenardwinery.com/pages.php?pageid=1



A still from the King of Jazz . Identified as Roy Maier in the file from the redhotjazzarchive. Frank identifies him as Bernie Daly.



The same person or two different guys?

Albert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 20th, 2010, 3:48 pm #6


.... two different guys!

Albert
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Glenda Childress
Glenda Childress

February 21st, 2010, 11:24 pm #7

Roy Maier from http://www.sthelenardwinery.com/pages.php?pageid=1



A still from the King of Jazz . Identified as Roy Maier in the file from the redhotjazzarchive. Frank identifies him as Bernie Daly.



The same person or two different guys?

Albert
I know this film's producer is persona non grata for her behavior in regard to archival materials borrowed, but I checked the VHS tape of the documentary <em>Bix: Ain't None of Them Played Like Him Yet</em> out of my public library and watched it a couple of days ago. A man identified as Roy Maier was interviewed on camera fairly lengthily about Bix's last days in the Whiteman band, and I can say with some certainty that the first photo looks to be (45-year-younger) Roy Maier.
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Richard Maier
Richard Maier

February 22nd, 2010, 6:46 pm #8

Roy Maier from http://www.sthelenardwinery.com/pages.php?pageid=1



A still from the King of Jazz . Identified as Roy Maier in the file from the redhotjazzarchive. Frank identifies him as Bernie Daly.



The same person or two different guys?

Albert
I agree, they are two different guys. Roy often played comedy skits with Goldie using the Piccolo, thus probably the confusion. We'll adjust our website when we can to reflect this correction.

Happy hunting for future corrections...

Richard Maier
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Richard Maier
Richard Maier

February 22nd, 2010, 6:47 pm #9

Roy Maier from http://www.sthelenardwinery.com/pages.php?pageid=1



A still from the King of Jazz . Identified as Roy Maier in the file from the redhotjazzarchive. Frank identifies him as Bernie Daly.



The same person or two different guys?

Albert
Agreed, they do not look alike. The confusion may have stemmed from Roy often doing a trumpet/Piccolo skit with Harry Goldfield (Goldie); a director of a German band encounters a piccolo player (Roy)who plays all the smudge spots on the music in addition to the notes. Roy often was involved in the comedy skits using the piccolo, so they may have confused him with the 'Piccolo Pete' spot in the movie.(page 439, "Paul Whiteman,Pioneer in American Music").

When I first saw the clip labeled Roy, I did question his looks, but since I never saw him play the piccolo and did not know him in his late 20's, just thought he was very thin then and his face was contorted from playing..especially since other info we gathered said he was the Piccolo Pete character.

We'll make an adjustment to our site when we can.

Thank you for your 'Piccolo Pete' patrol.

Richard Maier
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 22nd, 2010, 7:22 pm #10


Thanks for posting. Yes, we have a lot of knowledgeable people here, and we uncover new items and correct old ones.

My favorite recording of your grandfather's with Whiteman (but without Bix) is <em>Let's Do It, Let's Fall in Love.</em>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0liy8Ud6Gx0

Regards

Albert
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