A Bix Cornet?

A Bix Cornet?

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 6th, 2010, 5:33 pm #1


Paul kindly alerts me of the cornet recently donated to the Jazzens Museum in Strömsholm, Sweden.

http://www.jazzmuseum.se/2010/bix-beiderbeckes-cornet/

Paul did a quick translation of the text for those of us who do not know Swedish. Thanks very much, Paul.

"<em>On Thursday the 22 July 2010 to the collection of the museum was added through the courtesy of cornet- and hurdy-gurdy specialist and collector Hans Gille, Österbybruk, the instrument above. Until proof of the opposite is made there is a strong probabillity that this is an instrument that once belonged to the legendary Bix Beiderbecke born in Davenport in 1903 and deceased in New York 1931.</em>
<div><em>The multi-instrumentalist Chris Tyle, New Orleans bought the cornet in Chicago from a man that in his turn had bought it from a pawnshop in New York. It is a 1924 Conn Victor that Bix is pictured with in 1924 on classical photos.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>Bix Beiderbecke had a personal way of holding the instrument with his thumb pressed in an upward direction. This specific instrument has a stain from such a grip. On the original case that goes with the horn the initials L.B.B. has been found. Leon Bix (Bismarck) Beiderbecke.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>The instrument is in a very good condition which also was evident when Hans Gille played it with Jesses New Orleans band with Orange Kellin on clarinet on Jazzens Museum.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>Hans Gille bought the cornet some years ago from Chris Tyle."</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div>If a genuine Bix cornet, this is an amazing piece of news. I just wrote to Chris Tyle and asked him a bunch of questions.</div><div> </div><div><font face="Arial"><em> <font face="times,serif">"I have a question about the cornet in the Jazzens Museum. Swedish musician Paul Bocciolone Strandberg alerted me to the Bix cornet page in the Museum website. I understand that you purchased the cornet in Chicago from a man who had bought it in a pawnshop in New York. Further, I understand that the initials LBB are stamped on the original case that goes with the cornet.</em></font></font><div> </div><div><em>Do you have a line of ownership or provenance for this cornet? Do you know the pawnshop in New York where the cornet was purchased? When was it purchased in New York and when did you purchase it  in Chicago? Do you believe it is a genuine Bix cornet, e.g., it actually belonged to Bix? The Museum website has a guarded statement, "Until proof of the opposite is made there is a strong probability that this is an instrument that once belonged to the legendary Bix Beiderbecke" but provides no documentation or evidence that the cornet, in fact, belonged to Bix. In my book, research protocol requires that it be the other way around, here is proof, or at least strong evidence, that the cornet belonged to Bix. How do you prove a negative, that the cornet does not belong to Bix?</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>I hope it is not too much of a burden to respond. I would be very grateful. The discovery (new to me) of what could be a Bix cornet would be very important and, if a genuine Bix cornet, has to be cited, with accompanying documentation, in my Bixography website, </em><em>http://bixbeiderbecke.com</em><em>"</em></div><div> </div><div>If you don't know about Chris Tyle, take a look at his website,</div><div> </div><div>http://mediaweavers.net/christyle.htm</div><div> </div><div>I remind forumites that a few years ago we had a thread about an alleged "Bix cornet." See</div><div> </div><div>http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/me ... 111068455/</div><div> </div><div>If,/when. Chris responds, I will post again.</div><div> </div><div>Albert</div><div> </div></div>
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 6th, 2010, 6:09 pm #2

<div>Dear Museum Curator,</div><div> </div><div>I am Albert Haim, Professor Emeritus at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. I carry out research about the jazz musician Bix Beiderbecke. See http://bixbeiderbecke.com</div><div>
<font size="3">It has come to my attention that you recently acquired a cornet that you describe as follows. "<em>there is a strong probabillity that this is an instrument that once belonged to the legendary Bix Beiderbecke." </em></font></div><div><em></em> </div><div>I would be grateful if you could provide details about the provenance of this cornet and any documentary evidence that demonstrates that it is indeed a cornet that belonged to Bix. In your website, you state that the cornet was purchased by Hans Gille from Chris Tyle who had purchased it in Chicago from a man who bought in a pawnshop in New York City. Do you have the sales documents for each of these transactions? If so, could you scan them and send the scans? If not, do you know the dates of transfer of ownership for all the transactions and the names of the pawnshop and of the individual who first purchased the cornet in the pawnshop?</div><div> </div><div>The finding of a Bix cornet is a very important development and I would be grateful for any information that you could provide.</div>
Sincerely,

Albert Haim

Professor Emeritus

State University of New York

Stony Brook, NY 11794-3400
Quote
Like
Share

Glenda Childress
Glenda Childress

September 6th, 2010, 8:24 pm #3

Paul kindly alerts me of the cornet recently donated to the Jazzens Museum in Strömsholm, Sweden.

http://www.jazzmuseum.se/2010/bix-beiderbeckes-cornet/

Paul did a quick translation of the text for those of us who do not know Swedish. Thanks very much, Paul.

"<em>On Thursday the 22 July 2010 to the collection of the museum was added through the courtesy of cornet- and hurdy-gurdy specialist and collector Hans Gille, Österbybruk, the instrument above. Until proof of the opposite is made there is a strong probabillity that this is an instrument that once belonged to the legendary Bix Beiderbecke born in Davenport in 1903 and deceased in New York 1931.</em>
<div><em>The multi-instrumentalist Chris Tyle, New Orleans bought the cornet in Chicago from a man that in his turn had bought it from a pawnshop in New York. It is a 1924 Conn Victor that Bix is pictured with in 1924 on classical photos.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>Bix Beiderbecke had a personal way of holding the instrument with his thumb pressed in an upward direction. This specific instrument has a stain from such a grip. On the original case that goes with the horn the initials L.B.B. has been found. Leon Bix (Bismarck) Beiderbecke.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>The instrument is in a very good condition which also was evident when Hans Gille played it with Jesses New Orleans band with Orange Kellin on clarinet on Jazzens Museum.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>Hans Gille bought the cornet some years ago from Chris Tyle."</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div>If a genuine Bix cornet, this is an amazing piece of news. I just wrote to Chris Tyle and asked him a bunch of questions.</div><div> </div><div><font face="Arial"><em> <font face="times,serif">"I have a question about the cornet in the Jazzens Museum. Swedish musician Paul Bocciolone Strandberg alerted me to the Bix cornet page in the Museum website. I understand that you purchased the cornet in Chicago from a man who had bought it in a pawnshop in New York. Further, I understand that the initials LBB are stamped on the original case that goes with the cornet.</em></font></font><div> </div><div><em>Do you have a line of ownership or provenance for this cornet? Do you know the pawnshop in New York where the cornet was purchased? When was it purchased in New York and when did you purchase it  in Chicago? Do you believe it is a genuine Bix cornet, e.g., it actually belonged to Bix? The Museum website has a guarded statement, "Until proof of the opposite is made there is a strong probability that this is an instrument that once belonged to the legendary Bix Beiderbecke" but provides no documentation or evidence that the cornet, in fact, belonged to Bix. In my book, research protocol requires that it be the other way around, here is proof, or at least strong evidence, that the cornet belonged to Bix. How do you prove a negative, that the cornet does not belong to Bix?</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>I hope it is not too much of a burden to respond. I would be very grateful. The discovery (new to me) of what could be a Bix cornet would be very important and, if a genuine Bix cornet, has to be cited, with accompanying documentation, in my Bixography website, </em><em>http://bixbeiderbecke.com</em><em>"</em></div><div> </div><div>If you don't know about Chris Tyle, take a look at his website,</div><div> </div><div>http://mediaweavers.net/christyle.htm</div><div> </div><div>I remind forumites that a few years ago we had a thread about an alleged "Bix cornet." See</div><div> </div><div>http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/me ... 111068455/</div><div> </div><div>If,/when. Chris responds, I will post again.</div><div> </div><div>Albert</div><div> </div></div>
We know that Bix bought two Victor Conn cornets and had one engraved(presumably adding at least the "Bix" to it) picking it up later.

If my understanding is correct, that is "the" Bix cornet now at the Putnam Museum in Davenport, with elaborate engraving down to the bell. Do we know if that second cornet purchased was similarly engraved? The Swedish museum's cornet appears to have some sort of similar engraving. It would be helpful to have more photos of this one to compare to the one in the Putnam with certain provenance. Was this embellishment unusual, or were many sold with the same pattern? Would that second horn have been Bix's day-to-day instrument, perhaps the one he left in pieces at the Princeton weekend job, retrieved and reported to be returned later by Charlie Teagarden?

Do we know what happened to that second cornet after Bix's death?

Anyone?
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 6th, 2010, 9:25 pm #4


.... Vincent Bach Stradivarius. The one in the Putnam Museum is the one engraved with Bix's name. I forget what happened to the other one.

According to Ralph Norton, "there is evidence that Bix used more than one Victor."  Bix bought a Victor with Jimmy McPartland (for Jimmy) in 1924 when Jimmy went to New York to join the Wolverines.

Albert
Quote
Like
Share

Glenda Childress
Glenda Childress

September 6th, 2010, 9:45 pm #5

Could the cornet Bix bought for Jimmy be exactly like the one he got for himself?

Jimmy McPartland is said to have kept and played that 1924 cornet all his life. Could Marian McPartland still have it and if so, could it be compared to the one in Sweden?
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 6th, 2010, 11:49 pm #6

Paul kindly alerts me of the cornet recently donated to the Jazzens Museum in Strömsholm, Sweden.

http://www.jazzmuseum.se/2010/bix-beiderbeckes-cornet/

Paul did a quick translation of the text for those of us who do not know Swedish. Thanks very much, Paul.

"<em>On Thursday the 22 July 2010 to the collection of the museum was added through the courtesy of cornet- and hurdy-gurdy specialist and collector Hans Gille, Österbybruk, the instrument above. Until proof of the opposite is made there is a strong probabillity that this is an instrument that once belonged to the legendary Bix Beiderbecke born in Davenport in 1903 and deceased in New York 1931.</em>
<div><em>The multi-instrumentalist Chris Tyle, New Orleans bought the cornet in Chicago from a man that in his turn had bought it from a pawnshop in New York. It is a 1924 Conn Victor that Bix is pictured with in 1924 on classical photos.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>Bix Beiderbecke had a personal way of holding the instrument with his thumb pressed in an upward direction. This specific instrument has a stain from such a grip. On the original case that goes with the horn the initials L.B.B. has been found. Leon Bix (Bismarck) Beiderbecke.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>The instrument is in a very good condition which also was evident when Hans Gille played it with Jesses New Orleans band with Orange Kellin on clarinet on Jazzens Museum.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>Hans Gille bought the cornet some years ago from Chris Tyle."</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div>If a genuine Bix cornet, this is an amazing piece of news. I just wrote to Chris Tyle and asked him a bunch of questions.</div><div> </div><div><font face="Arial"><em> <font face="times,serif">"I have a question about the cornet in the Jazzens Museum. Swedish musician Paul Bocciolone Strandberg alerted me to the Bix cornet page in the Museum website. I understand that you purchased the cornet in Chicago from a man who had bought it in a pawnshop in New York. Further, I understand that the initials LBB are stamped on the original case that goes with the cornet.</em></font></font><div> </div><div><em>Do you have a line of ownership or provenance for this cornet? Do you know the pawnshop in New York where the cornet was purchased? When was it purchased in New York and when did you purchase it  in Chicago? Do you believe it is a genuine Bix cornet, e.g., it actually belonged to Bix? The Museum website has a guarded statement, "Until proof of the opposite is made there is a strong probability that this is an instrument that once belonged to the legendary Bix Beiderbecke" but provides no documentation or evidence that the cornet, in fact, belonged to Bix. In my book, research protocol requires that it be the other way around, here is proof, or at least strong evidence, that the cornet belonged to Bix. How do you prove a negative, that the cornet does not belong to Bix?</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>I hope it is not too much of a burden to respond. I would be very grateful. The discovery (new to me) of what could be a Bix cornet would be very important and, if a genuine Bix cornet, has to be cited, with accompanying documentation, in my Bixography website, </em><em>http://bixbeiderbecke.com</em><em>"</em></div><div> </div><div>If you don't know about Chris Tyle, take a look at his website,</div><div> </div><div>http://mediaweavers.net/christyle.htm</div><div> </div><div>I remind forumites that a few years ago we had a thread about an alleged "Bix cornet." See</div><div> </div><div>http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/me ... 111068455/</div><div> </div><div>If,/when. Chris responds, I will post again.</div><div> </div><div>Albert</div><div> </div></div>
I just got a response from Chris. It is categoric. Here is the message in toto.

<em>"Hello,
I've just received a couple of emails over the past few days regarding a cornet that is now on exhibit in the Jazzens Museum. I was shocked to be informed that somehow my name is connected with this instrument and supposed ownership by Bix Beiderbecke. So, it's important to get this situation cleared up NOW before things get even more out-of-hand.

In the 1990s, when I was living in New Orleans, I purchased a Conn Victor 80A cornet. I don't remember where it came from, but it did not come from Chicago. I have never purchased a horn in Chicago.

The likelihood is that it was purchased on ebay.

The horn was a standard, silver plated Conn 80A from the 1920s. I don't remember initials on the case, let alone the initials "LBB."

The horn was purchased by a Swedish cornetist, but I never, ever, stated that I believed it had belonged to Bix. It is possible that I might have mentioned that Bix played a Conn 80A Victor cornet in the 1920s, but I never would have stated, nor did I ever believe, that I owned a horn of Bix's.

As I recall I sold that particular cornet for less than $500, likely in the $300 range. If it was Bix's horn I certainly would not have sold it for such a small amount, nor would I have sold it to a private individual in such a transaction. I would have done the sensible thing and offered it to an auction house. Likely a cornet owned by Bix would be worth in the thousands of dollars.

I think it would have been prudent for someone from the museum to contact me to verify this story before it became an exhibit.

Sincerely,
Chris Tyle"</em>

This is part of  my answer to Chris.

<em>"It is distressing to see this apocryphal story being presented in a museum with no proof or documentation and, furthermore  with fabricated data. If we can't trust museum professionals, who can we trust?</em>
<div> </div><div><em>If you object to my posting what you wrote, let me know and I will delete immediately. However, since there is a buzz going on in the forum and outside of it about this alleged Bix cornet, it is wise to put an end to speculation with your categorical statement."</em></div><div> </div><div>Albert</div>
<em> </em>



Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 7th, 2010, 3:02 am #7

Last edited by ahaim on September 7th, 2010, 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 8th, 2010, 1:04 pm #8

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 8th, 2010, 1:20 pm #9

.... Vincent Bach Stradivarius. The one in the Putnam Museum is the one engraved with Bix's name. I forget what happened to the other one.

According to Ralph Norton, "there is evidence that Bix used more than one Victor."  Bix bought a Victor with Jimmy McPartland (for Jimmy) in 1924 when Jimmy went to New York to join the Wolverines.

Albert
This comes from Alan Rouse's website http://rouses.net/

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://rouses.net/trumpet/conn/sousa.jpg">

Albert

 
Last edited by ahaim on September 8th, 2010, 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Emrah Erken
Emrah Erken

September 8th, 2010, 3:13 pm #10

Quote
Share