Moderator: renscho

FRROM Northrop Delta

renscho
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renscho
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Joined: 3:27 PM - Sep 26, 2010

1:56 AM - Mar 09, 2017 #1





Cleaning up little parts. I approach kits like this with some caution, although, happily, this one is proving to be possessed of good molding and fit overall.

The clear parts fit near perfectly, the side window ports needing just the smallest clean-up.

The cabin and cockpit floors and the aft bulkhead fit very well. I narrowed the front of the cockpit floor a bit and cleaned up the ejector pin marks inside the fuselage halves. Since I couldn't reconcile myself with a wide open rear of the cockpit, I made up a bulkhead that fits from the top of the rear cockpit floor to the top of the fuselage.

I noticed there are four passenger seats with thin bottom cushions, and four with thicker ones. I could file the thicker ones down to match, but I think I'll try just putting the thicker ones in back. We'll see. The pilot's seat is shorter top-to-bottom than the passenger seats.

Overall, this is a fairly simple, but very well engineered little kit. Even the horizontal stabilizers have locating tabs. We'll see how those work out. Oh, yes... the cowling has a tiny cut-out in the rear edge not mentioned in the instructions. I figured out it belongs top center in front of the windscreen. Technicalities.

Painting things will begin in earnest soon. I'm quite liking this little kit so far!
(Please forgive cell phone pix. Quick 'n dirty.)
Robert E. Rensch
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dknights
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Joined: 7:07 PM - Sep 30, 2010

2:02 AM - Mar 09, 2017 #2

Following with interest.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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InchHigh
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Joined: 4:27 PM - Sep 28, 2011

2:06 AM - Mar 09, 2017 #3

Beautiful aircraft. If the clear parts fit that's half the battle. Go Robert, go!
Jeff

Time spent modeling is not deducted from your lifespan.

I spent most of my money on beer and women. The rest of it I just wasted.
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kingofmen
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Joined: 1:59 AM - Feb 21, 2011

2:37 AM - Mar 09, 2017 #4

Just out of curiosity, where did you source this kit? Haven't seen them at my two usual retailers yet - Sprue Bros and Hannants. TIA
Kevin Callahan
Auburn WA USA
Visit the 72 Land blog at http://72land.blogspot.com/
All hail 1:72!
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renscho
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renscho
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4:50 AM - Mar 09, 2017 #5

My thanks and appreciation to Gilles Fontaine at FRROM for the review kit. He's a great fellow.

Check the FRROM website if nothing else... They should be generally available very soon at any rate.

Robert E. Rensch
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VG 33
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Joined: 7:24 PM - Dec 19, 2010

5:08 AM - Mar 09, 2017 #6

Hello

This is nice as I am building acouple of these kits over BM. Actually I am building a delta 1A TWA and a Spanish Republican Delta 1C.

What scheme have you chosen?

On the other hand I have asked a question if there were passenger safety belts on ARC but so far to no avail. What do you think about that?

Patrick
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renscho
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renscho
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8:26 PM - Mar 09, 2017 #7

I am doing the LAPE aircraft with the metallic letters over the red band. Just a little bit of SCW history in that one.

I think the interior in the kit is virtually barren. Not as bad as the SH Lockheed Orion, which has nothing, but there's a lot not there. I would believe there were lap belts. The only modification I am making is the bulkhead behind the cockpit. Everything else will be as offered. The windows will make it difficult to tell much more than seats, and truthfully, the idea of using "Crystal Clear" stuff for windows lurks yet in the back of my alleged mind.

If I use the kit windows, and I will probably give it a shot, I have an idea to paint the inner and outer finish in the window area before joining the fuselage halves. Then windows with white glue from the inside. Then a mask for the outside... paper the length and height of the whole row of windows held in place by tape over the paper extending to the nearest practical panel lines. That way, I can join the fuselage halves, deal with the seam if necessary, and paint the rest of the exterior. If the tone of the exterior color is slightly off from that already painted near the windows and masked, then... panels! Also, there will be no adhesive directly over the windows, since they are covered by the paper first. Should be a painless removal with no casualties.

We shall see. I expect to see a nice photo of your model sometime in the future, of course. ^_^
Robert E. Rensch
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VG 33
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Joined: 7:24 PM - Dec 19, 2010

8:34 PM - Mar 09, 2017 #8

My Spanish Delta will be with all black letters.

Patrick
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VG 33
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9:32 PM - Mar 09, 2017 #9

A way to get flush transparencies.

Patrick

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walrus
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walrus
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11:16 AM - Mar 10, 2017 #10

How did you do that Patrick? Apologies for being dim

Did you put the windows on the outside and sand down?
Paul from Birmingham, UK
Now living in Barnsley.
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walrus
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walrus
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11:20 AM - Mar 10, 2017 #11

Not sure if this will be of any help:
Northrop Delta Mk. II, RCAF cockpit, 12 Apr 1937.



Source webpage: Canadian Warbirds
Paul from Birmingham, UK
Now living in Barnsley.
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renscho
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renscho
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7:00 PM - Mar 10, 2017 #12

Two variants of the Delta. Apparently, the first few were set up for a single pilot. That's the version FRROM has kitted. The photo shows the later two pilot version, which will be the forthcoming SH/MPM version.

I have noticed that manufacturers were fond of that control wheel, but some installed it upside-down to others. This photo gave me Northrop's take on installation as well as a few other manufacturer's particulars. Photos of the early single pilot version are rare as can be... (Hen's teeth, rocking horse poop, etc.)

I just go with the flow. No installing a pay phone in the back like I did with my Mureaux observation plane. :P
Robert E. Rensch
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walrus
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walrus
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12:31 AM - Mar 12, 2017 #13

:lol:

More not very helpful pictorial info.
Came across an interior photo of a Northrop Alpha while searching for Gamma interior pics but forgot to post
(You weren't kidding when you said such photos were rare, Robert!)



Source webpage

Decided to post because it may potentially answer the question about passenger seat belts, notwithstanding they may have been standard in the Gamma. But hopefully the webpage be of some use to someone interested in inter war passenger aircraft.

I was hoping to find a similar brochure for the Gamma but no such luck.

Paul from Birmingham, UK
Now living in Barnsley.
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renscho
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renscho
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1:40 AM - Mar 12, 2017 #14

I have been diggin' the curtains... Maybe some edges on the inside of the windows may get a bit of color... Just maybe.
Robert E. Rensch
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renscho
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renscho
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2:39 AM - Mar 12, 2017 #15

Robert E. Rensch
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dknights
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Joined: 7:07 PM - Sep 30, 2010

3:22 AM - Mar 12, 2017 #16

Good to see you at Indy. As I said I can't wait to see what you do from here to the finish.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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dknights
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11:36 PM - Mar 15, 2017 #17

I love the 30s airliners.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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VG 33
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Joined: 7:24 PM - Dec 19, 2010

5:09 AM - Mar 16, 2017 #18

walrus,Mar 10 2017 wrote: How did you do that Patrick? Apologies for being dim

Did you put the windows on the outside and sand down?
Hi

Yes I glued the transparencies a little outside the fuselage and sanded down to get flush.

I used cyanoacrylate glue but some spilled inside and I have to clean the resulting white zone now.

Patrick
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VG 33
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Joined: 7:24 PM - Dec 19, 2010

5:11 AM - Mar 16, 2017 #19

renscho,Mar 15 2017 wrote: So nobody thinks I have stopped on this little fellow, here you go.





Gonna be a cute little guy...
This is nice so far. When do you modify the passenger access door of this Spanish Delta 1C?

Patrick
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jbank
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jbank
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Joined: 12:22 PM - Oct 02, 2010

12:24 AM - Mar 24, 2017 #20

Good to see you back at the bench, Robert.
Life is too short for poor kits.
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prop duster
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Joined: 5:37 AM - Dec 12, 2011

6:12 AM - Mar 28, 2017 #21

^_^ This is a cool air plane and you build is moving along like a champ.

As I know nothing....About This Plane :wacko: Why is Hannnets price, around $5 difference for the two catalog entries?
Steve

Model building...SoCal style
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renscho
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renscho
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8:28 PM - Mar 29, 2017 #22

Regarding the prices, got me... I believe the decals, instructions, and box are different. Everything else appears to be common. :huh:

Anyhow, I took a bit of time off as my sister was diagnosed with leukemia. Nasty stuff...

But I'm back at my old screaming pace again. I found my solution to the window issue. I'm dumb. The windows fit great front to back in the frame. They're too tall. I filed the tops and bottoms of a couple, and still managed to break the second one in half. Fragile little things! Sooo...

I used Micro Krystal Klear, and when that dried, brushed a coat of Future over them. I believe it worked fairly well considering the low effort involved. I'm trying to work with the kit, here.



Well, next step is putting the stuff in and putting the fuselage together. I'll probably do my fancy window masking before that since the fuselage halves lay still so much better than the whole assembled thing would.

The landing gear spats will be fun, as it appears. They tell you to drill places for the wheel's molded on axle ends to locate inside the spats. There is a place indicated, sort-of. The idea is to accommodate the axle length without piercing the sides of the spats. See me smile...

:ph43r:
Robert E. Rensch
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walrus
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walrus
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8:41 PM - Mar 29, 2017 #23

Good stuff Robert ^_^

I've just checked another seller who have both kits priced the same, so I suspect that Hannants made a boo boo with the pricing

Hannants now have both kits at the same price
Paul from Birmingham, UK
Now living in Barnsley.
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renscho
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renscho
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8:43 PM - Mar 29, 2017 #24

Those dirty birds... ;)
Robert E. Rensch
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otard
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Joined: 9:06 AM - Oct 06, 2011

11:22 AM - Mar 30, 2017 #25


Following with interest, as I plan to build the Swedish version one day. ^_^
Ottar D. - Son, Norway
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renscho
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renscho
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7:29 PM - Jun 30, 2017 #26

Well, I got a reply from "The Photo Bucket Robot"... It's just as dumb as I thought.

Guess I'll be switching photos to another host.

Meanwhile, I'll be getting back on this Delta pretty quick. I got delayed by an unprecedented series of people and an animal dying... Brother in law, friend from High School (OD'd), my kitty cat, and my sister... In the two relatives, no wills, so much driving and crap.

I will have to get back to the modeling stuff. Things except the site itself seem to be settling down.

Photo Bucket, you're on my s**t list.
Robert E. Rensch
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walrus
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walrus
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Joined: 12:57 AM - Mar 30, 2012

12:08 AM - Jul 01, 2017 #27

The dirty rotten useless bucket of goblin snot! :angry:

They can go cow themselves.
Also switching

Back on topic.
Looking forward to seeing some updates when you get back to the Delta, Robert.
Paul from Birmingham, UK
Now living in Barnsley.
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VG 33
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Joined: 7:24 PM - Dec 19, 2010

6:01 AM - Jul 01, 2017 #28

Hello

As you can see on my post my picture is still here this is because I've been using "photoservice.com" for many years and so far I've been satisfied.

On the other hand my Deltas are running idle...

Waiting for yours Robert.

Patrick
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renscho
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renscho
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4:28 PM - Dec 14, 2017 #29

Well, believe it or not I am still plugging away at the poor old Delta.
I have the airframe all put together with the exception of the wheel/spat assemblies.
I managed a couple minor boo-boos, but overall I'm highly pleased with this kit!
Things fit together very well indeed (with the possible exception of the cabin windows,
which I thought at first was going to be the least of my worries...).

I'll have some photos posted soon. I'm still trying to get my camera and some decent light
in the same place at the same time.
Crappy cell phone images for now...



Robert E. Rensch
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dknights
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Joined: 7:07 PM - Sep 30, 2010

2:49 AM - Dec 15, 2017 #30

That is very nice looking. I want the Canadian version
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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dogsbody
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Joined: 7:08 PM - Oct 05, 2010

8:06 PM - Dec 15, 2017 #31

dknights wrote:That is very nice looking. I want the Canadian version
Me, too!


Chris
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"
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Mark Schynert
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Joined: 4:42 AM - Sep 27, 2010

1:53 AM - Dec 16, 2017 #32

Hannants has the two-pilot version listed for sale now. I have the single-pilot (Swedish) kit, and will complement it with the two-pilot version.

I've gone kind of nuts with Gammas and Deltas, ever since I converted the Williams Bros. kit to the Gamma 2D. I picked up two more Williams Gamma kits to build the 2A and 2B, as well as two of the FRROM Gamma 2E, to do both a 2E and the sole 2C. Probably as far as I'll go--the Conqueror-engined one doesn't interest me, and most of the rest are repeats of earlier versions except for engines.

Robert's having so much fun there, I might just batch build them. :mental:
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Sky Keg
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Joined: 11:28 AM - Jun 01, 2013

3:35 AM - Dec 16, 2017 #33

Very nice Robert!!!! _^
Sky Keg

Mr Dorfman??..Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.
-Dean Wormer
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walrus
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walrus
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3:58 AM - Dec 16, 2017 #34

wrote:Robert's having so much fun there, I might just batch build them.
Go for it Mark. you know ya wanna! :wicked:
wrote:Very nice Robert!!!! _^
Seconded _^

Paul from Birmingham, UK
Now living in Barnsley.
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renscho
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renscho
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6:20 AM - Dec 16, 2017 #35

Mark Schynert wrote:Hannants has the two-pilot version listed for sale now. I have the single-pilot (Swedish) kit, and will complement it with the two-pilot version.

I've gone kind of nuts with Gammas and Deltas, ever since I converted the Williams Bros. kit to the Gamma 2D. I picked up two more Williams Gamma kits to build the 2A and 2B, as well as two of the FRROM Gamma 2E, to do both a 2E and the sole 2C. Probably as far as I'll go--the Conqueror-engined one doesn't interest me, and most of the rest are repeats of earlier versions except for engines.

Robert's having so much fun there, I might just batch build them. :mental:
Walrus and I are kind of plodding along in a two guy group build on these...

I am trying to get a decent base for an Alclad finish. Spraying the Alclad right on the plastic. No undercoat.

I may have to use a shot of primer here and there even so.

Actually, Mark, it's a pretty decent kit.







No filler at all so far, though it's coming soon...

Robert E. Rensch
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dknights
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Joined: 7:07 PM - Sep 30, 2010

12:23 AM - Dec 17, 2017 #36

Rencho, might I recommend spraying a coat of Future on the bare plastic before spraying the Alclad. It makes an amazingly smooth surface for applying Alclad.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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Mark Schynert
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Joined: 4:42 AM - Sep 27, 2010

2:14 AM - Dec 17, 2017 #37

renscho wrote:Actually, Mark, it's a pretty decent kit.
I did a bit of test-fitting on the 2E (and comparison with the Williams Brothers kit). The wing to fuselage is not quite interchangeable, but it's pretty clearly all coming from the same basic airframe.

The 2E at least ought to go together really well, and the Delta, with the same manufacturer and with a lot of airframe similarities, could reasonably be just as good.

I'm talking myself into this :mental:
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Mark Schynert
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2:24 AM - Dec 17, 2017 #38

dknights wrote:Rencho, might I recommend spraying a coat of Future on the bare plastic before spraying the Alclad. It makes an amazingly smooth surface for applying Alclad.
Yeah, it needs something underneath. I go with Tamiya fine primer (white or gray, or even both, if I want an easy way to get differential metallic sheens from one kind of Alcad). Ideally, polish it with 8000/12000, but I'm usually too lazy to do that, and it doesn't look bad.



The Alclad aluminum here is only on the fuselage and tail surfaces, over white primer, with the exhaust panel Alclad stainless steel; Tamiya rattlcan aluminum for the (lacquer-painted) wings.
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renscho
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renscho
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11:45 AM - Dec 17, 2017 #39

I've had problems every time I've used Alclad but one. The problem is that the Alclad doesn't get along with what's under it.
I have used Tamiya from the spray can. It worked once. The second time a decal pulled the alclad and left a black edge where
the decal film ended.
I used Tamiya from the bottle. Wrinkles and crap.
I use it on bare plastic a lot. As long as I start with a mist coat, it's not bad.
We'll keep the suggestion in mind, though. I'm still fiddling.
Robert E. Rensch
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woody
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3:00 PM - Dec 17, 2017 #40

I use Alclad's gloss black, oddly it works every time. However once just to see what would happen I used Testors gloss orange, it worked too.
Cheers,
Woody
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renscho
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renscho
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7:54 PM - Dec 17, 2017 #41

:X :unsure: :banana: :codger: :suicide: :suicide: :tantrum: :P :P :P
Robert E. Rensch
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Mark Schynert
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Joined: 4:42 AM - Sep 27, 2010

4:22 AM - Dec 18, 2017 #42

renscho wrote:I've had problems every time I've used Alclad but one. The problem is that the Alclad doesn't get along with what's under it.
I have used Tamiya from the spray can. It worked once. The second time a decal pulled the alclad and left a black edge where
the decal film ended.
I used Tamiya from the bottle. Wrinkles and crap.
I use it on bare plastic a lot. As long as I start with a mist coat, it's not bad.
We'll keep the suggestion in mind, though. I'm still fiddling.
It's a problem that besets some colors more than others. Polished aluminum is particularly delicate. If there's chrome, that too. Supposedly those must go over the Alclad black primer. They're not tints I own or use, so I haven't had to deal with the issue. Aluminum, dark aluminum and duralumin are tougher, but I've heard of problems there too.
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kingofmen
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Joined: 1:59 AM - Feb 21, 2011

12:34 AM - Dec 21, 2017 #43

My experience has been that as long as whatever is under it is glossy, you're probably ok. Though most times I just shoot it over bare plastic. A recent time that I shot it over a matte surface (on the Valom Mk 7 nuke, which had some matte Xtracolour armor red-brown under it) there was some wrinkling.
Kevin Callahan
Auburn WA USA
Visit the 72 Land blog at http://72land.blogspot.com/
All hail 1:72!
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renscho
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renscho
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1:02 AM - Jun 21, 2018 #44

Okay, I have gotten back to the Delta now that the basement isn't freezing and springtime work is done...







The landing gear is fun. It turns out that, not only are the molded-on axles too long for the interior of the spats, (more than likely for the exposed wheels it works better), but the tires are too wide to fit if the spats are unmodified.
I trimmed the axles snippet by snippet and kept refitting the wheels into the spat half. The black paint on the tires marked where there was no clearance, so I filed and carved where the black was.
File and fit one side, then the other... and trim another snippet off the axle. Finally, the assembly would close.
I already had a hole drilled just bigger than the axle in the spat halves. I decided to take a slightly larger drill and make the holes funnel-shaped so the axles would self-locate when everything was closed up for good.

I believe I have the seams on the main assembly finished up to the point I can shoot on some Alclad surfacer-primer.



I picked up some Alclad surfacer primer, clear gloss, and black undercoat. Let's see what they can do...
BTW, the faint black vertical line on the nose in this shot was drawn at the back of the cowling with the cowl and engine sitting in place. It will help locate the carb scoop.




Robert E. Rensch
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dknights
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Joined: 7:07 PM - Sep 30, 2010

3:24 PM - Jun 21, 2018 #45

GO Robert GO
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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renscho
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renscho
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11:52 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #46



Robert E. Rensch
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Joined: 9:09 PM - Oct 03, 2010

3:41 AM - Jul 12, 2018 #47

Looking good, Robert! Glad to see you're making progress on this one.
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dknights
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7:36 PM - Jul 12, 2018 #48

Barry Numerick wrote:Looking good, Robert! Glad to see you're making progress on this one.
+1 Man, that is a plane that is ugly enough that it is pretty.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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renscho
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renscho
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8:13 PM - Jul 12, 2018 #49

dknights wrote:" Man, that is a plane that is ugly enough that it is pretty. "
It looks like a Dauntless airliner with clown shoes...
Robert E. Rensch
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dknights
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9:04 PM - Jul 12, 2018 #50

renscho wrote:
dknights wrote:" Man, that is a plane that is ugly enough that it is pretty. "
It looks like a Dauntless airliner with clown shoes...
OK, that made me LOL, and you are right, it does! :rofl:
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: Tamiya A6M2
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
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