Live Thread - Championship Weekend

Joined: August 9th, 2009, 12:10 pm

January 18th, 2013, 7:09 pm #1

:SF: @ :ATL: - Sunday 8pm

San Francisco looked GREAT on saturday as the pummeled Green Bay while Atlanta toiled to a 30-28 win that broke their playoff duck under Mike Smith. On paper it seems one sided.

:BAL: @ :NE: - Sunday 11.30pm

These two again! The best non-divisional rivalry in football at the moment without question. These two teams know each other and hate each other. I expect a super-close game.

My full thoughts & picks vs spread - HERE


In other news, Bengals OT Andre Smith was arrested after bringing a gun to an airport. :nono:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... witter_atl

:chair: - There are 64 HC & GM jobs in the NFL. If you're concerned about the "lack of diversity" in those 64 jobs, why aren't you also concerned that there are no white starting running backs in the NFL? Or that there are no women in NFL coaching positions? Any "positive discrimination" that pushes teams to hire minority candidates for positions is incredibly wrong and should be avoided at all costs.
Last edited by Tobli93 on January 18th, 2013, 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 10th, 2010, 2:58 pm

January 18th, 2013, 11:29 pm #2

I didn't actually see this before posting the new poll but a platform for debate is now open!! I felt aggrieved by that article too.
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Joined: April 8th, 2009, 3:30 pm

January 19th, 2013, 10:44 pm #3

Because, to put it bluntly, there's less evidence of discrimination.

The NFL has an unusually transparent talent pipelines, especially in terms of players. Almost all of them will have come through college or the draft, the lack of white running backs is identifiable at the college level hence they just aren't coming through. Is there some racial thing going on whereby coaches either push players towards different positions or select them differently based on colour. Quite possibly, but it's clearly happening well below NFL level and outside their remit. It's not a case of standout white running backs in college going undrafted.

Women, similar thing. Almost all coaches were at least college players and that tends to serve as their entry-level training and way into the system.

With black coaches, the logjam is clearly at NFL level (or there and at college level). White candidates are getting hired as junior coaches and progressing up the ladder in a way black ones aren't.

The Rooney rule is a very very low-level way of making teams at least consider an ethnic minority candidate because often there's a gap in even that.

Bottom line, concern about 'lack of diversity' is a media-friendly way of saying that racism is still a part of nfl hiring decisions, you either tackle it with things like the Rooney rule. Or you close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and say it'll sort itself out. Because that's worked so well up to now, and it's really just coincidence that Lovie Smith seems to be the odd man out in the Head Coaching carousel.
Last edited by corporeal on January 19th, 2013, 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 25th, 2009, 10:03 pm

January 20th, 2013, 8:38 am #4

If there is still racism behind boardroom level decisions then these things should be taken alot further than a using a simple thing like the rooney rule. The people responsible for not hiring a person becuase of their colour shouldnt be in the position to make these decisions

The rooney just seems like the wrong way to tackle the problem. Anyone found guilty of making a hire/fire decision based on race in any other walk of life would be out on their ass. The same should apply here
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Joined: April 8th, 2009, 3:30 pm

January 20th, 2013, 11:43 am #5

glynners_7 wrote:If there is still racism behind boardroom level decisions then these things should be taken alot further than a using a simple thing like the rooney rule. The people responsible for not hiring a person becuase of their colour shouldnt be in the position to make these decisions

The rooney just seems like the wrong way to tackle the problem. Anyone found guilty of making a hire/fire decision based on race in any other walk of life would be out on their ass. The same should apply here
And how do you show that? How do you even begin to prove it?

It's not even a conscious "black people are stupid" thing or anything like that. It's a subtle thing where we can't really point to any team and say "they should have hired a black guy", but you can notice that somehow the black guys don't seem to get hired. Oh and Lovie Smith just happens not to get a new job.

The Rooney rule is a way of trying to at least help black coaches get a foot in the door.
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Joined: August 9th, 2009, 12:10 pm

January 20th, 2013, 12:04 pm #6

The point about Lovie Smith not getting a new gig (while Reid did) is an interesting one but there are plenty of reasons why. Firstly he didnt want a DC job so that was out. Secondly any money he makes as an NFL coach this year is taken of off the amount owed to him by Chicago so he would be working for free. And finally he's a defensive guy in an offensive league. Reid, Kelly, Chud, Arians, Trestman were all bought in to work some magic on O.

There are plenty of reasons beyond "he's black" why lovie isnt coaching in 2013.
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Joined: March 19th, 2009, 11:20 am

January 20th, 2013, 12:18 pm #7

These guys spend too much money to let race come into things.
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Joined: April 8th, 2009, 3:30 pm

January 20th, 2013, 12:24 pm #8

Tobli93 wrote:The point about Lovie Smith not getting a new gig (while Reid did) is an interesting one but there are plenty of reasons why. Firstly he didnt want a DC job so that was out. Secondly any money he makes as an NFL coach this year is taken of off the amount owed to him by Chicago so he would be working for free. And finally he's a defensive guy in an offensive league. Reid, Kelly, Chud, Arians, Trestman were all bought in to work some magic on O.

There are plenty of reasons beyond "he's black" why lovie isnt coaching in 2013.
Why would him working for free stop someone offering him a job?

As I said, it's not clearcut cases of "there's no other reason than racism", more black coaches being held to a higher standard. That you could point out knocks against other guys (College, CFL, etc) that get overlooked more often for white coaches.
SuperLego5 wrote:These guys spend too much money to let race come into things.
Sport's been big business since before they let black players play.
Last edited by corporeal on January 20th, 2013, 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 9th, 2009, 12:10 pm

January 20th, 2013, 12:30 pm #9

corporeal wrote:Why would him working for free stop someone offering him a job?
Because he might not have wanted to work for free, and thus said he wanted to be paid far more than teams were willing to.

Personally I think that while I don't doubt old, white men (the majority of the owners) lean towards hiring other white people, even if it's subconscious, they are almost all incredibly successful business men and you don't get there by ignoring talent when you see it just because of it's skin colour (or gender etc).
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Joined: April 8th, 2009, 3:30 pm

January 20th, 2013, 12:58 pm #10

Tobli93 wrote:
corporeal wrote:Why would him working for free stop someone offering him a job?
Because he might not have wanted to work for free, and thus said he wanted to be paid far more than teams were willing to.

Personally I think that while I don't doubt old, white men (the majority of the owners) lean towards hiring other white people, even if it's subconscious, they are almost all incredibly successful business men and you don't get there by ignoring talent when you see it just because of it's skin colour (or gender etc).
I think the pay thing is stretching it tbh.

How many of them are and how many are the second and third generations?

And I think there are plenty of successful businessmen who aren't exactly paragons of equality.

I struggle to see how people look at the NFL (or college coaching for that matter) and not think there's some racism going on.
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