Not wartime greatcoat?

Not wartime greatcoat?

Joined: October 13th, 2009, 3:26 pm

August 25th, 2010, 8:25 pm #1

Despite the seller's claim surely this is not a wartime Greatcoat with those cuffs? I'm no expert on them but I thought these 'turn-up' cuffs only appeared post-war....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :MEBIDX:IT
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Joined: May 4th, 2007, 8:13 am

August 25th, 2010, 9:07 pm #2

Wartime greatcoat would have a full belt as well, not just the half belt on the rear.
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Joined: February 28th, 2004, 3:00 pm

August 25th, 2010, 10:46 pm #3

Despite the seller's claim surely this is not a wartime Greatcoat with those cuffs? I'm no expert on them but I thought these 'turn-up' cuffs only appeared post-war....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :MEBIDX:IT
You are quite correct Paul. Wartime greatcoats had removeable shoulder rank rather than sewn on ones 9so they could be switched with the bullion mess dress/full dress versions), a full belt with buckle rather than a half belt on the back only adorned with two buttons, and plain cuffs fastened with three buttons each rather than turn back cuffs.

VR badges were supposed to be abolished in January 1943, so also a bit odd they are on a post WW2 greatcoat (i think this style came in in the early 1950s.)

Surprising as this seller I think is generally very clued up...
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Joined: October 23rd, 2003, 11:27 pm

August 26th, 2010, 4:13 am #4

The coat may have been badged up by the owner, post-war, in an attempt to recreate his wartime coat. I have seen many strange things that have come straight from the vet.
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Joined: February 28th, 2004, 3:00 pm

August 26th, 2010, 9:40 am #5

I see where youre coming from Bob, but the 'VR' badge was abolished in early 1943, and although worn by many for some time after, had largely gone by the end of the war. In this case though, in the years after the war, it was replaced by 'VRT', so although 'VR' might have been ignored by many, as it was superceeded he would be incorrectly dressed.

I emailed the seller before seeing the note here, and he says he's selling it for a friend. I'd think likely as he generally seems to know his stuff well, judging by many previous listings. But I think its been badged up by someone to look WW2, maybe innocently, maybe by a reinactor. Question moreso is the POW connection. Are the bids going in because of that interest? If a genuine WW2 caot, then in theory it would have been worn by him at the time he was shot down (not actually in the aircraft of course). However, if post WW2, the interest decreases, in the same way any post WW2 uniform does.

But I odnt think the errror is intentional on the part of the seller.
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Joined: February 16th, 2005, 11:34 pm

August 26th, 2010, 11:03 am #6

He's ammended the listing.
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Joined: November 10th, 2003, 4:11 pm

August 26th, 2010, 3:45 pm #7

Hi

Glad to hear the listing has been changed, I believe the greatcoat listed is the one that was introduced in 1947 but still with K/C brass buttons.

I have today listed a 'genuine' WW2 Squadron Leader Greatcoat dated 1944 on ebay, and have had examples of the 1947 type.

My question is to you guys out there, why did the AM/MOD change the greatcoat pattern so near to the end of WW2 when there must have been 1,000's of the old pattern still in circulation?

Cheers

Tony
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Joined: February 28th, 2004, 3:00 pm

August 26th, 2010, 4:19 pm #8

They did the same with many items of uniform and insignia. The standard service dress tunic was redesigned in 1947 but was unpopular so it was changed in 1949. A review was done of insignia too and it was about 1948 when several were abolished and most of the others were slightly redesigned (the backing changing from dark blue to blue/grey).

Probably just a post-war review that wanted to start afresh in peacetime.
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Joined: October 13th, 2009, 3:26 pm

August 26th, 2010, 4:55 pm #9

Hi

Glad to hear the listing has been changed, I believe the greatcoat listed is the one that was introduced in 1947 but still with K/C brass buttons.

I have today listed a 'genuine' WW2 Squadron Leader Greatcoat dated 1944 on ebay, and have had examples of the 1947 type.

My question is to you guys out there, why did the AM/MOD change the greatcoat pattern so near to the end of WW2 when there must have been 1,000's of the old pattern still in circulation?

Cheers

Tony
Thanks for confirming my suspicions, I have been looking for a nice WW2 greatcoat to add to my collection. I have just seen your Sqn Leader coat you listed and shall be thinking hard about bidding for it, a lovely example indeed. Is it free from mothing etc?
Paul
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Joined: November 10th, 2003, 4:11 pm

August 27th, 2010, 3:00 pm #10

Hi Paul

Thanks for your posting, I have taken a good look at the coat there are no moth holes but some marks which could be cigarette or pipe ash spills but not holes, not noticeable when worn or displayed.

One point I would make is that the shoulder Boards have been stitched lightly at the shoulder end and would benefit from material loops being sewn to the coat so the boards could be slipped underneath and then secured at the neck end with the original loop and K/C buttons, I never got around to it.

The coat was purchased in an Antique Centre in Stratford Upon Avon several years ago.

If you do make a bid, any items I place on ebay I always give a seven day guarantee, so if advised within that period you are not happy with the item, please return it and I will give a full refund (excluding return postage).

If you want more photographs (I don't think the marks I referred to will show on a photograph) please contact me, by the way I am not a dealer just a collector and have a 'Living History' group based on No.4 Group Bomber Command Headquarters, but the collection is getting out of hand so need to clear some items

Best regards

Tony
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